What do you think?

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by Andrew
What's the Biblical solution to wanting to do it, and lack of self-control? Marriage!
So marriage is for sex too, besides pro-creation and a host of other things. Scripture? Here:

1 Cor 7:

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. [ie if you wanna do it, do it in marriage! Notice Paul aint refering to the problem of lusting after babies]

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. [if you dont get it becos you dont "come together" Satan is gonna tempt you with adultery. Note again Paul isnt talking abt making babies]

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
[what do u think the "cannot contain" here means? it's certainly not lack of self-control in making babies but SEX. Men dont go to their wives and say, honey I'm so horny -- I've been thinking about babies and pregnancy all day long. Can we procreate?]

You did not post verse 6.

NASB:
1 Corinthians 7
1 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.
3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.
4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
6 But this I say by way of concession, not of command.

{Emphasis mine}

Verse 2 states that this is due to immoralities (pre-marital sex and extra-marital sex); and verse 6 states that this is a concession, not a command. Since it's not a command and it was due to immoralities and lack of self-control, it would seem to be that if you and your spuse have self-control (i.e., without the risk of adultery) then this is not directed at you.


And no where in 1 Corinthians 7 (or anywhere in the Bible, for that matter) does God state that the use of contraception ("artificial" or anyother kind) is OK or good. Unless, maybe, someone has some scripture that many people have missed, that condones and allows the use of contraception. . .?

 

[sbbqb7n16]

I think the entire rest of 1 Cor 7 would work too...

After all the church at Corinth was known for being surrounded by sexual immorality. So Paul encouraged them to get married... wonder why? Can you lust after your own wife (or husband for women)? Isn't lust a form of coveting another as your own.. see Commandment 10. That's what I thought it was... If your wife (or husband) is yours, how can you covet what is already yours?

 

[seebs]

Nor does the Bible ever speak *against* contraception. Argument from silence?

 

[Susan]

Well, I would say what happened to Onan in Genesis 38 was a very strong Biblical reason to stay away from birth control.

 

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by Apologist
Susan,

I would say that King Solomon would, and does disagree with your view.

God Bless

If you're referring to the actions of Solomon: everyone is a sinner, including Solomon.

If you're referring to the Song of Solomon, check out this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/31123.html

It's about the lesser-popular opinion that Song of Solomon is about eternal-matters and not about Solomon and a Shulamite; this interpretation is much more consistent with the rest of The Bible.

 

[sbbqb7n16]

The Bible doesn't talk about contraceptives because... durh..... they weren't invented yet! Does the Bible say that TV is evil? I wouldn't know... it says that wasting your time is foolish... and it also says we should make wise decisions... using contraception to stop from having a child (with your wife) you can't support is a wise decision. Would the Bible forbid that?

 

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by Susan
Well, I would say what happened to Onan in Genesis 38 was a very strong Biblical reason to stay away from birth control.

Amen.

And there is no scripture that speaks for contraception.

 

[gwyyn]

ok I'm lost here, but this is a really interesting thread. But if I understand Susan correctly her point is that sex is only for the purpose of concieving child. Is this a correct assumption ?? And if it's true I too would like to know about those unable to have children??


gwyyn

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Genesis 38 and Onan have nothing to do with contraceptives, but with fulfilling the law to honor his brother at the time. That is why he was punished...

 

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by sbbqb7n16
The Bible doesn't talk about contraceptives because... durh..... they weren't invented yet! Does the Bible say that TV is evil? I wouldn't know... it says that wasting your time is foolish... and it also says we should make wise decisions... using contraception to stop from having a child (with your wife) you can't support is a wise decision. Would the Bible forbid that?

There have been forms of contraception since sin has entered the world with Adam and Eve; what Onan did being one form. That was thousands of years ago.

Ever research Egyptian history? Other history? Contraception did NOT begin with condoms or "the pill" (abortifacient).

 

[sbbqb7n16]

No I haven't researched Egyptian history... or the history of contraceptives. I know not to have sex until marriage, so why worry yet? I was unaware of contraceptive methods of that day and age, but was in reference to modern contraceptive methods, which is the viewpoint my post came from.

I still feel that using contraceptives in a wise way to enjoy the benefits of marriage while protecting the future of a child is a good decision. ANY sex out of marriage shouldn't be considered in the first place.

Sorry bout my error in my last post

 

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by sbbqb7n16
Genesis 38 and Onan have nothing to do with contraceptives, but with fulfilling the law to honor his brother at the time. That is why he was punished...

Let's test that new theory.


Deuteronomy 25
5 "When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband's brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her.
6 "It shall be that the firstborn whom she bears shall assume the name of his dead brother, so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel.
7 "But if the man does not desire to take his brother's wife, then his brother's wife shall go up to the gate to the elders and say, 'My husband's brother refuses to establish a name for his brother in Israel; he is not willing to perform the duty of a husband's brother to me.'
8 "Then the elders of his city shall summon him and speak to him. And if he persists and says, 'I do not desire to take her,'
9 then his brother's wife shall come to him in the sight of the elders, and pull his sandal off his foot and spit in his face; and she shall declare, 'Thus it is done to the man who does not build up his brother's house.'
10 "In Israel his name shall be called, 'The house of him whose sandal is removed.'

So, we see that the punishment for refusing to impregnate the widow of your deceased brother is public shaming, by fellow Hebrews. NOT being killed by God Himself, as happened to Onan.

So, clearly, Onan's sin was not refusing to impregnate the widow of his deceased brother, it was Onan selfishly wanting to have sex without pregnancy occuring (because Onan knew that the child would not be his).

 

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by sbbqb7n16
No I haven't researched Egyptian history... or the history of contraceptives. I know not to have sex until marriage, so why worry yet? I was unaware of contraceptive methods of that day and age, but was in reference to modern contraceptive methods, which is the viewpoint my post came from.

I still feel that using contraceptives in a wise way to enjoy the benefits of marriage while protecting the future of a child is a good decision. ANY sex out of marriage shouldn't be considered in the first place.

Sorry bout my error in my last post

OK, I just wanted to point out the fact that contraceptives were around back then, even when Moses was still alive.

So contraception is not like television or the internet (or cars, etc., etc., ad infinitum and ad nauseam), as it actually EXISTED back then.

About "protecting the future of a child:" for one, "the pill" is an abortifacient (i.e., it aborts/murders the baby); secondly, condoms prevent a child from being conceived, no human has the right to do that (only God is the creator of life). Finally, if you and your wife wish to wait until you are financially stable enough before having children-wait. Yes, wait. Self-control is one of the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[A Sheep]

Psalm 127
3 Behold, children are a gift of the LORD,
The fruit of the womb is a reward.

4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior,
So are the children of one's youth.

5 How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them;
They will not be ashamed
When they speak with their enemies in the gate.

 

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by sbbqb7n16
I still feel that using contraceptives in a wise way to enjoy the benefits of marriage while protecting the future of a child is a good decision.

What child?

 

[SUNSTONE]

A Sheep

I asked the question "What is the difference between Man and Women?"

You never answered me.

This is the difference between man and women. Estrogen and Testosterone.

They are the two different chemicals that pump through the blood of them both.
This chemical is an energy that pushes the human race to reproduce, which is Gods will. It is so strong that even Paul said it is better to merry than to burn with lust.
Men have a stronger sex drive, than women. That is why men go after women, and the only women that go after men, are the ones the bible says to stay away from. I am speaking about immoral women.
Now sex isn't the only thing that men want, but it is very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very,very, very,very very important.

Why am I telling you all of this?

Because I truely don't believe there is a man, that will not want what you are asking for. Now I am saying this, assuming that all of your, uh, tools are working properly.
When you get married, your first year is going to be, uh, well, lets just say fun.
And guess who is going to be the starter of this event 99 percent of the time? The man.

This is a good thing, because God does want us to procreate, and having sex while pregnant is not dangerous.
Paul said, do not deny each other, unless it is during times of fasting. He is yours, and you are his. If you hold your body back from him, he is more likely to commit adultery.

 

[Susan]

"It is so strong that even Paul said it is better to merry than to burn with lust."

Edit that. Please. It's spelled marry, not "merry." :o

 

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
A Sheep

I asked the question "What is the difference between Man and Women?"

You never answered me.

I never did see your question, sorry.

This is the difference between man and women. Estrogen and Testosterone.

I HOPE that you do not think that those chemicals are the only difference, nor the main difference between man and woman.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by A Sheep
I never did see your question, sorry.


I HOPE that you do not think that those chemicals are the only difference, nor the main difference between man and woman.

Do you just want to prove somebody wrong? Or do you want to "hear" what I am saying?

If its the first one - No there isn't anthing different, or atleast to my knowledge, but I haven't ever seen a girl naked. Is there a difference? And why is it you girls don't have urinals in ladys bathrooms?

 

[Susan]

Originally posted by A Sheep
I never did see your question, sorry.


I HOPE that you do not think that those chemicals are the only difference, nor the main difference between man and woman.

Amen.

Also, some people, at some times in their lives, experience "surges" of body chemicals that cause them to want to be angry or even violent. Does that mean that unchecked hostility and rage should be accepted?

Oh, wait a minute: they too often are, at least in American society. Note the national pathologies of "sports rage," "road rage," and "work rage."


Not everything that is "natural," "due to body chemicals," or explainable by physical means is universally good. In some things, we are to control ourselves. In the case of hostility and anger, we are to exercise self-control by acting calmly and speaking in a manner that befits Christians even if we feel that we are going to explode. I believe that we exercise self-control in sexuality by limiting it and sanctifying it.

IOW, a fire in a fireplace is good, but a house engulfed in flames is a tragedy. It is good to learn the difference.