What do you think?

[Susan]

I would like to once again begin a new discussion on my viewpoint on a certain issue, but too many threads of that nature have been hijacked or turned into sick comedies. 

Could we this time truly have a reasoned discussion on the issue of whether hypersexuality/lust in marriage is sinful? (I believe it to be sinful.) I would also like to discuss the perversion seeping into modern evangelical circles and how we as Christians can be holy as God has required, even in this section of life.

I know not only myself, but some other posters also, would like to discuss this in a reasoned and rational manner without graphic posts, sick "humor," or a thread crashed by people who disagree, when we would like to have a civil discussion with all sides equally and honestly represented.

A previous thread I started on this was closed due to the infantile behavior of one participant (who shall remain nameless) I request that this one be closely monitored and that the offensive posters be punished rather than the thread this time. I also ask permission to repost some of my old arguments.

And to preemptively stop two ad hominem comments, yes, I am not married yet, and no, I have not been abused.



MODERATORS: Please remind EVERYONE of Rules 1 and 4.

 

[A Sheep]

Everyone please keep in mind:

[noflame][/noflame]

[nobad][/nobad]

 

[Susan]

(I am posting this copied from my old, closed thread so I do not have to rewrite it all. Please do not remove it because it is copied.)

I believe that sex is for procreation only. That does NOT mean that I oppose pleasure (so long as it is not acquired through perverted means-no octopi for example) simply that I believe pleasure to be a far SECONDARY goal and not the primary one. The primary goal is to bring a new life into the world.

The reasons I believe sex should be so limited are because, first of all, it will "sanctify" it rather than making it simply a biological act of lust or power as if humans are mere animals.

Secondly, such a worldview counters the world's view of marriage, which is the "What can I get for me?" worldview that is centered on looks and sex rather than on anything else, anything that would last.

(I would much rather build a marriage on things such as trust and caring, because those are still there when you're no longer young or you are ill or injured to the point of being unable to provide sexuality.)

Thirdly, I believe that engaging in something of any sort too much opens the door for being bored with it as it normally is. For instance, if you eat plain chocolate cake every week, you will soon become tired of it and look for ways to change it. It is most probably the same with sex, the difference though is a huge one, because variations on chocolate cake are not sinful or bad (unless you make a rum icing strong enough to get all the eaters drunk for example) however most if not all "variations" on sex are bad, sinful, and absolutely disgusting.

A sampler of such "variations" (I am trying not to be graphic) would be things like insisting that the wife dress or look a certain way, bringing objects into something that is to be between a man and wife, watching or reading inappropriate contentography for "ideas," and at the bottom of the barrel, things such as S&M, heterosexual adultery, and bisexuality.

Variations are not good in everything.

Fourth and last, the procreation-only worldview of sex counters the exploitation of either spouse using sex as a "bargaining chip."

 

[bigat]

Hey Susan -
Can I ask, where did you get this view of sex? Did someone teach this to you? Discover it on your own?
I just find it odd that someone of your age would come into this worldview without some outside influence.

Thank you.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Scripture please.

(Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labor which thou takest under the sun.)

What is the difference between a man and a woman?

 

[Susan]

"Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labor which thou takest under the sun"

This verse does NOT refer to sex. It refers to living in peace and not hating/fighting with one another but enjoying your life together. If you ever lived in a house where there was a lot of strife and fighting, you would understand that "joyfully" has many different meanings.

Besides, Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon during his road to apostasy. It is not the most reliable book for doctrine or practice to be solely derived from. While all Scripture is indeed God-breathed and suitable for every purpose, different parts teach different things. One would not read a textbook on English to learn about science (sure, there may be some scientific knowledge there or some sidelights on science, but still, the main point is English) Ecclesiastes could well be Solomon's version of "these are the mistakes I made, please do not follow them."

Since Solomon had earlier mentioned his harem in the book (the worst mistake of his life, that would eventually bring about his downfall) this verse could well be simply a teaching not to marry 700 women, but to have only one wife and to live joyfully with her.

 

[hugoguttman]

Could_we this time truly have a reasoned discussion_on the issue of whether hypersexuality/lust in marriage is sinful? (I believe it to be sinful.) I would also like to discuss the_perversion_seeping into modern_evangelical circles and how we as Christians can be holy as God has required, even in this section of_life.

My opinion is that when one of a couple wants to have sex just for having sex...seeing the sexual relation as a pure carnal relation is lust. I can say that, having sex has two focuses: The carnal focus (to be with my wife in intimacy, body to body... I like my wife/husband phisically) and the sentimental focus ( deep emotions, love, trust...) Those focuses must be balanced. If the first one is the only one, there we have lust. And lust will make one to have sex everytime our flesh ask us to, that could get into hipersexuality and that is not good before the Father, because I think we are commiting sin against our bodies, which are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.
Unfortunately, perversion will exist as far as we remain far from Jesus. It could be in any congregation, at school, anywhere... because as Romans 1:28 says... we dont have the Lord in our hearts. So the best we can do is pray to God, remain near Him and letting Jesus Christ to live in our hearts. That will make we look for spiritual things instead of the carnal ones.
Pax.
Hugo.

 

[Jephunneh]

God says:

Hebrews 13:4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

 

[sierraf]

From Susan in post #3.

"I believe that sex is for procreation only"


Would that mean that people who can't have children, should not engage in sex?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just curious. Because people can know this to be true and still be virgins. (ie. my daughters best friend was injured in a car accident, she is a virgin, but as a resolute of the accident she will never be able to have children). How then would I Cor. 7:9 apply to this person?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Susan
"Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labor which thou takest under the sun"

This verse does NOT refer to sex. It refers to living in peace and not hating/fighting with one another but enjoying your life together. If you ever lived in a house where there was a lot of strife and fighting, you would understand that "joyfully" has many different meanings.

Besides, Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon during his road to apostasy. It is not the most reliable book for doctrine or practice to be solely derived from. While all Scripture is indeed God-breathed and suitable for every purpose, different parts teach different things. One would not read a textbook on English to learn about science (sure, there may be some scientific knowledge there or some sidelights on science, but still, the main point is English) Ecclesiastes could well be Solomon's version of "these are the mistakes I made, please do not follow them."

Since Solomon had earlier mentioned his harem in the book (the worst mistake of his life, that would eventually bring about his downfall) this verse could well be simply a teaching not to marry 700 women, but to have only one wife and to live joyfully with her.

I never said that verse was about sex. But I will give you one, once you answer my question, and give your scriptures for your beliefs.

That verse shows you that it is God's will for you to enjoy life, your wife, and all the works you have done under the son. This is not the only thing we do, but it is one of God's will. Jesus said I have come so that your joy might be made in full. That is what I was getting to with that verse.

Now answer that question, and I will explain with atleast one verse.

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

Susan
one more question.....

Do you believe God makes mistakes?

 

[ZiSunka]

Sex within marriage is meant to bond the lovers together, to give them a joyful reason to stay together in times of great stress, and a way to delight in each other. It is a haring of each other for mutual satisfation and joy. It is LOVE MAKING.

Hypersexuality and lust are about getting what you want, getting your animal insticnts satisfied, getting a big rush, and not about love and sharing. In hypersexuality and lust, the partners don't care if the other one enjoyed it, and the joy is in getting a big [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], not in pleasing and delighting in the other person. It's about self and not about bonding. It cheapens sex and builds a wall of selfishness where there should be no wall at all.

Lust is about getting an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and not about love. Marriage is about love, and oh yeah, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], too.

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

my question is.....

what exactly do you consider hypersexuality? Is there some number limit (only 4 times a month) or is it when one partner want's to more than the other?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by I can eat 50 eggs
my question is.....

what exactly do you consider hypersexuality? Is there some number limit (only 4 times a month) or is it when one partner want's to more than the other?

For me it would be more like 4 times in one hour, several hours aeveryday.

 

[Annabel Lee]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
For me it would be more like 4 times in one hour, several hours aeveryday.

When would you have time to eat with a schedule like that?

 

[Apologist]

Susan,

I would say that King Solomon would, and does disagree with your view.

God Bless

 

[Andrew]

What's the Biblical solution to wanting to do it, and lack of self-control? Marriage!
So marriage is for sex too, besides pro-creation and a host of other things. Scripture? Here:

1 Cor 7:

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. [ie if you wanna do it, do it in marriage! Notice Paul aint refering to the problem of lusting after babies]

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. [if you dont get it becos you dont "come together" Satan is gonna tempt you with adultery. Note again Paul isnt talking abt making babies]

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
[what do u think the "cannot contain" here means? it's certainly not lack of self-control in making babies but SEX. Men dont go to their wives and say, honey I'm so horny -- I've been thinking about babies and pregnancy all day long. Can we procreate?]

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
When would you have time to eat with a schedule like that?

It is written that man shall not live by bread alone.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Andrew
What's the Biblical solution to wanting to do it, and lack of self-control? Marriage!
So marriage is for sex too, besides pro-creation and a host of other things. Scripture? Here:

1 Cor 7:

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. [ie if you wanna do it, do it in marriage! Notice Paul aint refering to the problem of lusting after babies]

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. [if you dont get it becos you dont "come together" Satan is gonna tempt you with adultery. Note again Paul isnt talking abt making babies]

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
[what do u think the "cannot contain" here means? it's certainly not lack of self-control in making babies but SEX. Men dont go to their wives and say, honey I'm so horny -- I've been thinking about babies and pregnancy all day long. Can we procreate?]

Dang Andrew you stole the verse I was going to use. Amen

 

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by lambslove
Sex within marriage is meant to bond the lovers together, to give them a joyful reason to stay together in times of great stress, and a way to delight in each other. It is a haring of each other for mutual satisfation and joy. It is LOVE MAKING.

[...]

Lust is about getting an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and not about love. Marriage is about love, and oh yeah, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], too.

Where do babies fit in?