What do you think of this site?

[Azad]

What do you think of this site?


http://www.messiahtruth.com

Moslems often rely on the explanations given by the articles of this site, to dismiss, the importance of the Messiah when discussing with Christians.

 

[Hix]

Messiah Truth? It has a few nice members, Rabbi Uri Yosef and Rabbi Moshe Shulman for example. I used to actually be a member of it and an anti-missionary....

But anyway, yes they are mislead. They need to see that Messiah Yeshua is not the christian man-god, but instead the promised messiah in the Tanach.

Oh and if Moslems rely on that site then id hope they would take a look at a few of their resoruces that actually has quoting from the Quran with Mohammed saying Israel is the Jews land. LOL talk about Ironic

 

[Azad]

But anyway, yes they are mislead. They need to see that Messiah Yeshua is not the christian man-god, but instead the promised messiah in the Tanach.

Yes but still,
How can someone refute their arguments?
Is there any rebutal?
Is what they say about the translations true?

 

[Zaphenath-Paneah]

Yes but still,
How can someone refute their arguments?
Is there any rebutal?
Is what they say about the translations true?

I am gonna see the site and tell you , I wonder why I have feelings that you are a muslim and you are putting the Cross sign by mistake.

 

[Hix]

About the translations? What they say about the LXX septuagint is true, yes. The original hebrew translation the Masoretic text that has not been tempered with is different in many areas. This does not mean Messiah Yeshua is not in the Tanach though.

Personally I could not refute counter missionaries for the simple fact im not educated enough and probobly never will be. Im sure many more of our smarter members could offer could refutals. MOST of their arguements combat against mainstream christianity/the trinity/idolitary which I personally dont agree with though.

Ive seen websites say bad things about them and in all honesty its not true, they are only misled, I can say that actually being an active counter missionary at one point. Some day theyl know Yeshua was/is the Messiah.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[Zaphenath-Paneah]

Yes but still,
How can someone refute their arguments?
Is there any rebutal?
Is what they say about the translations true?

John 7:5: For even his brothers did not believe in him.

Luke 4:16: And Jesus came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and he went to the synagogue, as his custom was, on the Sabbath day…
There, Jesus hinted to his friends and neighbors that he was the Messiah, however:


Luke 4:28: When they heard this, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath. And they rose up, and put him out of the city, and led him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw him down headlong.
How very strange it is, that during all the years in which Yeshu grew up with them, his brothers, friends, and neighbors did not notice that he was a "divine being." And could it have been that his parents forgot or didn’t tell anyone what they experienced? This stretches one’s imagination.

I think the site is referring to the bible to say that Jesus is not the Messiah and this is something strange because we all know that Jesus was refused by his own people and that doesn't mean that they didn't see any thing divine in him or that they didn't notice any miracles , Take for example Lazerous , In the bible it was written that the priests wanted to kill Jesus for rising Lazerous from the death.
see how they reacted towards this miracle.

 

[simchat_torah]

The Rabbis at Messiah Truth are good but mistaken people. They have a heart for G-d, but are sadly mistaken in their view of Y'shua.

Shalom,
yafet.

 

[BenTsion]

Azad,
Don't even waste your time. This site claims there actually was a gospel which was rejected by early Christianity which was written BY YESHUA'S HAND. They are so historically way-off that I wouldn't waste my time disproving them. Not to mention their unmatched ability to take scripture out of context. And this you can see at their very front page. Mind you, if they're the ones making the claims, they're the ones who should be presenting evidence. They seem to be a group of people who has decided that Yeshua is a demon they have to exorcize at the expense of any common sense.

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion

 

[Hix]

Yes I agree Yafet, I still know and chat to some of the Rabbi's at Messiah Truth and I know they have a strong zeal for HaShem. Some of the points they make as well are very valid and you can learn alot from them, but they are still mistaken about Yeshua. Most of which can be attributed to the fact that Yeshua is presented too often as someone requiring worship and a change in the view of HaShem. Not to forget the christian ideal of the Torah being outdated and no longer necessary.

I pray they learn soon about the real Yeshua HaMoshiach and know that nothing changes by learning that he was/is the messiah
Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[Hix]

Azad,
Don't even waste your time. This site claims there actually was a gospel which was rejected by early Christianity which was written BY YESHUA'S HAND. They are so historically way-off that I wouldn't waste my time disproving them. Not to mention their unmatched ability to take scripture out of context. And this you can see at their very front page. Mind you, if they're the ones making the claims, they're the ones who should be presenting evidence. They seem to be a group of people who has decided that Yeshua is a demon they have to exorcize at the expense of any common sense.

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion

I wouldnt go that far. They simply state that there were many gospels presented at Constantines council many claiming to be gospels of Yeshua and his council voted it down to the 4 we have today. That is fact, its in the writings of Josephus and all.

They are very misled but some points do have fact in them, their strongest articles are based around Israel being the Suffering Servant and that much is true. Their evidence for Yeshua not being the moshiach is minimal and of cource untrue.

They will see some day, lo?

 

[BenTsion]

Just a little side note because I think my last post might have sounded too hard. You
CAN and SHOULD learn from them as much as you can. We often learn more with
those who criticize us than with those who agree with us. I guess what I was trying
to say is: don't waste your time engaging in a theological battle over Yeshua because
these people are already strongly biased against Him and many of their arguments are
quite distorted.

 

[Azad]

I wouldnt go that far. They simply state that there were many gospels presented at Constantines council many claiming to be gospels of Yeshua and his council voted it down to the 4 we have today. That is fact, its in the writings of Josephus and all.

They are very misled but some points do have fact in them, their strongest articles are based around Israel being the Suffering Servant and that much is true. Their evidence for Yeshua not being the moshiach is minimal and of cource untrue.

They will see some day, lo?

Bsically what you are saying is that ISaiah 53 really refers to israel and not mashiah?

 

[Hix]

Yep.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[BenTsion]

I wouldnt go that far. They simply state that there were many gospels presented at Constantines council many claiming to be gospels of Yeshua and his council voted it down to the 4 we have today. That is fact, its in the writings of Josephus and all.

Hix, the following was extracted from the very first page of their site:

"A partial list of the different books considered by the Church for inclusion were a gospel written by Jesus’ own hand; letters and other correspondences written by Jesus."

They are very misled but some points do have fact in them, their strongest articles are based around Israel being the Suffering Servant and that much is true.

How could the suffering servant be Israel? First of all, how could our transgressions be upon Israel? Second, when was Israel cut out from the land of the living? Also, where else was Israel called a lamb? Not to mention the fact that the servant is described with very human attributes (such as when his grave is mentioned). It seems to me that the whole idea that the suffering servant is Israel comes as a reaction to Christianity.

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion

 

[Hix]

A discussion of the SS in I-53 is off topic and not what this topic is about, though suffice it to say Israel as the suffering servant is a consistant message throughout the Tanach, the Messiah as one is not. And saying this is an attack against christianity is false also as there are numerous christian bible translations that now admit Israel is the suffering Servant. Heck, HaShem actually says Israel is the servant in the chapters before AND after.

But il not get into that. But you are right dear chaver, alot of Messiah Truths reasoning is far fetched at best, I know this from experience.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[Azad]

Yep.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

hmmm....But then that would mean the Jews are right.
If you reject Isaiah 53 being a messianic prophecy, you reject the two portraits of the mashiah! one being as king the other being as the suffering servant.
I don't see any other place in the Bible where the MAshiah is described as a suffering servant...

Shlama

 

[sojeru]

hi All,
here is the problem- thisis not to offend.
There must be applied into the reading of the Tanach, Jewish Hermeneutics...and there are four levels to understand.

See, at the literal level- Isaiah 53 is in fact speaking about ISRAEL, and Israel alone.
and at a different level- a parable level- which is the 3rd level- it can be applied to the Messiah.

Now the last level of interpretation John the beloved does well.
With such titles as the "Son of G-D"- this is not at all exclusive to only Messiah Yeshuah.
Son of G-D (Ben Elohim) and G-d (El- or Elohim) were applied to all religious leaders- they were applied to priests and rabbis and prophets and even Jewish Kings. So at the same was the term Messiah/Mashiach also applied to all these authorities well and long before Messiah came and established himself.

And so the title of FIRSTBORN and ONLY SON was specifically given to ISRAEL...thus when John Speaks of G-D sending his only son- he makes it interchangeable with the ONLY SON of the BIBLE (Tanach) who is Israel.
Thus John Makes the Messiah and Israel interchangeable, and the Messiah is the representative of Israel... in other words in very simple words- the Messiah is Israel and Israel is the Messiah.
Messiah Yeshuah represented this and all of Israel was found in him.
So when he died, all of Israel died, and when he rose again to Life- all of Israel rose to Life- so that means that all of Physical Israel is alive in Messiah because of what he had done.

And so, when speaking of Isaiah 53 and Matthew 23:1-3, indeed, the decrees and interprettations of the Jews are correct and they are to be followed.

Anyone who does not believe in the Messiah Yeshuah, the "ONLY" Son of G-D, does not believe in Israel who is the First Born SON of G-D.

The only thing about this group is that they do not wish to share the COMPLETE truth in interpreting, meaning the different levels. However, they do wish to do away with the much farce christian influence that has taken hold of the Jewish people. And so, by this being their mission they are doing the correct thing...however, their wrong is in that they malign a great and awesome Man called Yeshuah in the process.

Shalom u'bracha