What do you think of John Bunyan's views?

[Aldebaran]

what were you reading in the Bible?

Scripture is to awaken, or impart Hope in Christ. Its not something we can work up, but we can ask for it pray for it, and meditate on those verses that are to encourage us and promise God's help.

Can't come up with anything specific in the short time I have here, but mainly verses that seem to stack "qualifiers" on top of the sacrifice Jesus made for us. I'm referring to verses that say things like, you're saved if you believe in Christ AND continue to bear fruit. As a Christian of over 25 years, I look at my life, my view of things, my reaction to difficulties, and I don't see gentleness, goodness, love, understanding, etc. Praying to God to change my heart so many times hasn't resulted in any changes in me. So is it up to ME to change me? I've heard it said that a man cannot change his own heart any more than a leopard can change it's own spots. The conclusion I often come to is that Christ is NOT in me. If I've done all I can think of to change that and have failed, what is left but dispair?

I know what despair can be like, it took me a quite a while to learn to feed on the scriptures, and I still have difficult times.

Psalm 43:5 Why are you in despair, my soul? Why are you disturbed within me? Hope in God, because I will praise him once again, since his presence saves me and he is my God.

Psalm 40:1-2 I waited patiently for the LORD to help me, and he turned to me and heard my cry. He lifted me out of the pit of despair, out of the mud and the mire. He set my feet on solid ground and steadied me as I walked along.

Yes, these verses are in the bible along with many others that say similar things. Then I read The Straight Gate by Bunyan and am told that not only unbelievers will go to Hell, but so will most believers. Those aren't good odds for someone who doesn't show any fruit!

 

[dms1972]

I apologise if I said anything to make you feel hopeless, I am struggling a bit myself, and want to take time away from the forums as they can be distracting.

I would suggest stay with the Psalms and that they take a bit of prayerful sustained concentration to get the good out of them. Its more important to just read a verse or two than read a lot. I remember times in my life really having to make a sustained effort with the Psalms and praying for help to really dwell on them till I got something from them.

http://biblehub.com/psalms/119-116.htm

 

[Aldebaran]

I apologise if I said anything to make you feel hopeless, I am struggling a bit myself, and want to take time away from the forums as they can be distracting.

I would suggest stay with the Psalms and that they take a bit of prayerful sustained concentration to get the good out of them. Its more important to just read a verse or two than read a lot. I remember times in my life really having to make a sustained effort with the Psalms and praying for help to really dwell on them till I got something from them.

http://biblehub.com/psalms/119-116.htm

It wasn't anything you said that made me feel hopeless. I had that taken care of before I even created this thread!

 

[faroukfarouk]

I was reading a book by John Bunyan called the Strait Gate that someone referred to me (available free online) and it left me depressed. It seemed like his view throughout the book is that most people are going to hell, including Christians who think they are saved. He seems to think that most Christians are going to hell. Hardly uplifting!

I've read Pilgrim's Progress part 1 and 2 and enjoyed them, so I'm surprised to feel otherwise by the Strait Gate.

Anyone familiar with this book, I'd love to hear your opinion. I've looked up reviews on the book and they seem to be 100% positive. Hmmmm.

It's an allegory from the words of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 7.14: "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

It is intended to be humbling and searching.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's an allegory from the words of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 7.14: "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

It is intended to be humbling and searching.

I understand. But what gets me is that Jesus is the gate and it's mentioned in other parts of the NT that if we call on the name of Christ for the forgiveness of our sin, we are saved. So once we pass the gate, it sounds like it's all up to us after that, and Bunyan seems to of the opinion that most who enter by the Strait gate (Jesus) end up in hell anyway because they didn't stay on the narrow way. IOW, he seems to be saying Jesus didn't do it all.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I understand. But what gets me is that Jesus is the gate and it's mentioned in other parts of the NT that if we call on the name of Christ for the forgiveness of our sin, we are saved. So once we pass the gate, it sounds like it's all up to us after that, and Bunyan seems to of the opinion that most who enter by the Strait gate (Jesus) end up in hell anyway because they didn't stay on the narrow way. IOW, he seems to be saying Jesus didn't do it all.

The whole of the allegorical Pilgrim's Progress keeps looking at various aspects of the Christian life and encourages self-examination, as Paul does: 'Examine yourselves if ye be in the faith' (2 Corinthians 13.15).

 

[Aldebaran]

The whole of the allegorical Pilgrim's Progress keeps looking at various aspects of the Christian life and encourages self-examination, as Paul does: 'Examine yourselves if ye be in the faith' (2 Corinthians 13.15).

The book I was talking about was The Straight Gate, also written by Bunyan but with a different viewpoint. I enjoyed Pilgrim's Progress though.

 

[dms1972]

I know you're talking about The Straight Gate, but as you enjoyed pilgrims Progress had you thought of re-reading it?

I apologise for commenting on something I haven't read in its entirety.

Bunyan was a very scriptural writer. However I don't think everyone's christian life always follows exactly as the journey of the Pilgrims in that story, though at one time or another they will find themselves facing people, and situations which are in some way like those Christian meets. But all the way there are helps and graces for the Pilgrims in that story. It is pre-eminently the Puritan spiritual journey. If you found it helpful, there are study guides to it

http://www.bunyanministries.org/

The Psalmist prays for God to sustain him.

At first when we just read a verse of the Bible what may happen is that our mind acknowledges it, and we think "yes, the Bible says that." When we dwell upon the scripture prayerfully what started as information begins to work at a deeper level in us.

The development is described like this by Dallas Willard

1. Information
2. Longing for it to be so
3. Affirmation that it must be so
4. Invocation to God to make it so
5. Appropriation by God's grace to make it so

Just be honest in your prayers and read scripture, and tell God if you are struggling and ask Him to come to your assistance

O God, come to my assistance.
O Lord, make haste to help me.

 

[Aldebaran]

I know you're talking about The Straight Gate, but as you enjoyed pilgrims Progress had you thought of re-reading it?

I apologise for commenting on something I haven't read in its entirety.

Bunyan was a very scriptural writer. However I don't think everyone's christian life always follows exactly as the journey of the Pilgrims in that story, though at one time or another they will find themselves facing people, and situations which are in some way like those Christian meets. But all the way there are helps and graces for the Pilgrims in that story. It is pre-eminently the Puritan spiritual journey. If you found it helpful, there are study guides to it

http://www.bunyanministries.org/

The Psalmist prays for God to sustain him.

At first when we just read a verse of the Bible what may happen is that our mind acknowledges it, and we think "yes, the Bible says that." When we dwell upon the scripture prayerfully what started as information begins to work at a deeper level in us.

The development is described like this by Dallas Willard

1. Information
2. Longing for it to be so
3. Affirmation that it must be so
4. Invocation to God to make it so
5. Appropriation by God's grace to make it so

Just be honest in your prayers and read scripture, and tell God if you are struggling and ask Him to come to your assistance

O God, come to my assistance.
O Lord, make haste to help me.

I have been praying, although not in those words.
I might just end up reading Pilgrim's Progress again. I liked part 2 better. For some reason, it seemed easier to follow and was more relateable.

 

[dms1972]

If you do read it I would say read the first part again as I think that would be of more help to you.