WHAT, do you think, is hell?

[JTKIRK]

[FONT=&quot]Christians believe emphatically that there is a literal heaven. They also believe emphatically that there is a literal hell. While we are given a brief description of heaven in the Bible (streets of gold, walls of jasper, etc.) hell is presented in rather vague terms. As long as Christians believe that hell is the future and the everlasting abode for unrepentant sinners, what precisely IS hell and WHERE is it 'geographically' located? Is it literal or is it figurative? Whatever your belief, please state your reasons for believing as you do[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

 

[Zaac]

[FONT=&quot]Christians believe emphatically that there is a literal heaven. They also believe emphatically that there is a literal hell. While we are given a brief description of heaven in the Bible (streets of gold, walls of jasper, etc.) hell is presented in rather vague terms. As long as Christians believe that hell is the future and the everlasting abode for unrepentant sinners,

Hell is temporary. the Lake of Fire is everlasting.

what precisely IS hell and WHERE is it 'geographically' located? Is it literal or is it figurative? Whatever your belief, please state your reasons for believing as you do[/FONT]

Sheol(Hebrew), Hades(Greeek) or hell is the non-permanent place of the disembodied souls of dead. It is not the grave nor a tomb, nor is it the eternal location of the souls of the dead.

Biblically speaking, at one point there were two parts to hell(Sheol, Hades).One side was and is reserved for the temporary torment of the evil, while the other side, referred to as "Abraham's Bosom" in Luke 16:22, was for the comfort of the righteous.

There is and impassable canyon, or gulf, between the two halves. When Christ was resurrected, he is said to have led the righteous out of Sheol to Heaven.

 

[tcampen]

Hell is a figurative concept created by humans primarily as a means of controlling behavior through fear.

 

[Zaac]

Hell is a figurative concept created by humans primarily as a means of controlling behavior through fear.

Nice hypothesis, and is indeed a way for folks to set up a belief system for justifying sin. But Hell is VERY literal as is the Lake of Fire into which it will be thrown.

 

[tcampen]

Nice hypothesis, and is indeed a way for folks to set up a belief system for justifying sin. But Hell is VERY literal as is the Lake of Fire into which it will be thrown.

Ok, if it is so "real", please tell where I can find it. You see, you're not talking about the existence of an abstract concept like "love" or "beauty", but a real place. And real places exist in real places. SOOOOOO, where is it?

And my "hypothesis" seems utterly backed up every single day in these forums, so I think we can elevate it to a "theory".

 

[Braunwyn]

Hell is a figurative concept created by humans primarily as a means of controlling behavior through fear.

+1 and well said. To add, if anything could be titled hell, it would be many spaces on the earth, in the hearts of some folk.

 

[keith99]

Hell is a place where you have contact only with some posters from Christain Forums.

Guess which ones!

 

[JTKIRK]

The thing is that NO ONE wants to be wrong in regard to a (cherished?) belief. Human beings since the beginning of time have been filled with pride and it's this, in many instances, that have led to their downfall. We see this kind of thing all the time on the forum ..."How DARE you say that my long-held belief is incorrect ...especially when most of Christianity believes the same thing!" The notion is that the majority (of Christians) simply cannot be wrong. They CAN be wrong, of course, when their particular 'belief' was an erroneous one from the start. The LONGER an erroneous idea is believed the MORE entrenched in the mind it becomes. The traditional concept of hell is a prime example of an erroneous belief becoming entrenched in the mind.

It not only amazes me but it also concerns me greatly that people (Christians) get actually ANGRY when someone else comes along with a different concept of hell that shows God in a more humane light than does the traditional view. They actually get ANGRY! ??? Not only that, they also imply and some actually SAY that the concept of a humane God are words of the devil! ???
They actually like and accept and are comforted by the idea that the lost will get their dues by being eternally tormented in the flames of hell!

The traditional concept of hell has been misinterpreted from the start. Metaphors and symbolisms that are used in relation to hell have been made into literal accounts. The lack of understanding (the ignorance) in these areas by Christians is most shocking, to say the least. The favorite description of hell by Christians (The Rich Man & Lazarus) is a Hebrew fable. Jesus expounded on this fable with a parable of His own that was aimed at the Pharisees. It actually has nothing to do with hell per se. No matter HOW MANY TIMES people on this board are told this it goes in one ear and out the other. Why? Simply because they have no desire to hear the truth. The truth messes up their cherished belief and takes them out of their comfort zone. The very idea that a literal eternal torture chamber exists for the lost actually keeps people within their comfort zone is extremely distressing.

Christianity! No wonder the atheists have such a field day with us!

 

[Zaac]

Ok, if it is so "real", please tell where I can find it. You see, you're not talking about the existence of an abstract concept like "love" or "beauty", but a real place. And real places exist in real places. SOOOOOO, where is it?

You're trying to understand the things of the spirit with the flesh. Just as there is a fleshly "real world", there is a spiritual "real world". There is indeed a spiritual realm and even though you can't physically see that realm, it is nonetheless all around us.

And my "hypothesis" seems utterly backed up every single day in these forums, so I think we can elevate it to a "theory".

Again, no one of Christ expects those thinking in the flesh to have a comprehension of the things of the spirit. The Bible says 1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Are you a Christian? Have you asked Jesus Christ, the one who spoke of hell so many times, if hell is real even though you can't see it?

If you are a Christian who believes in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, where is He? He said He was goiing back to His Father and His Father is in heaven.

So if you are a follower of Jesus Christ and He is in heaven that you ALSO cannot physically see or have any idea of how to physically get there, why is it so hard to believe that hell is just as real?

 

[Zaac]

The thing is that NO ONE wants to be wrong in regard to a (cherished?) belief. Human beings since the beginning of time have been filled with pride and it's this, in many instances, that have led to their downfall. We see this kind of thing all the time on the forum ..."How DARE you say that my long-held belief is incorrect ...especially when most of Christianity believes the same thing!" The notion is that the majority (of Christians) simply cannot be wrong. They CAN be wrong, of course, when their particular 'belief' was an erroneous one from the start. The LONGER an erroneous idea is believed the MORE entrenched in the mind it becomes. The traditional concept of hell is a prime example of an erroneous belief becoming entrenched in the mind.

It not only amazes me but it also concerns me greatly that people (Christians) get actually ANGRY when someone else comes along with a different concept of hell that shows God in a more humane light than does the traditional view. They actually get ANGRY! ??? Not only that, they also imply and some actually SAY that the concept of a humane God are words of the devil! ???
They actually like and accept and are comforted by the idea that the lost will get their dues by being eternally tormented in the flames of hell!

The traditional concept of hell has been misinterpreted from the start. Metaphors and symbolisms that are used in relation to hell have been made into literal accounts. The lack of understanding (the ignorance) in these areas by Christians is most shocking, to say the least. The favorite description of hell by Christians (The Rich Man & Lazarus) is a Hebrew fable. Jesus expounded on this fable with a parable of His own that was aimed at the Pharisees. It actually has nothing to do with hell per se. No matter HOW MANY TIMES people on this board are told this it goes in one ear and out the other. Why? Simply because they have no desire to hear the truth. The truth messes up their cherished belief and takes them out of their comfort zone. The very idea that a literal eternal torture chamber exists for the lost actually keeps people within their comfort zone is extremely distressing.

Christianity! No wonder the atheists have such a field day with us!

Same old same old. JT, I really don't see a reason for folks to get angry. Frustrated? Perhaps. Angry? Not so much.

The Bible says 10You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 3:10-15

Have you ALWAYS believed as you currently do, or did you use to believe what Christendom has traditionally taught?

It not only amazes me but it also concerns me greatly that people (Christians) get actually ANGRY when someone else comes along with a different concept of hell that shows God in a more humane light than does the traditional view.

God is GOD. A humane light defines Him in terms of humanity and not in terms of His Deity.

Humanity does not like to conceive of a loving God Who has a wrath, but He does. And His wrath is just as perfectly loving as is His grace and mercy.

 

[Nathan45]

14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 3:10-15

because naturally Paul is talking to YOU PERSONALLY and is talking about SCRIPTURES that weren't even written yet when he wrote this letter. ... and not talking to Timothy, even though this letter Paul wrote is actually addressed to timothy. And I'm not aware of any evidence that St. Paul accepted the doctrine of eternal torment of the damned, anyways.

 

[Zaac]

because naturally Paul is talking to YOU PERSONALLY and is talking about SCRIPTURES that weren't even written yet when he wrote this letter. ... and not talking to Timothy, even though this letter Paul wrote is actually addressed to timothy. .

Did any of the writers of Scripture address you personally? That's just another excuse to not accept something God says.

And I'm not aware of any evidence that St. Paul accepted the doctrine of eternal torment of the damned, anyways

St. Paul isn't God. Whether or not he accepts the doctrine is irrelevant. But as his writings are aligned with the rest of God's word, there's no reason to think he wasn't aligned with the doctrine of hell.

 

[mpok1519]

Hell is whatever you think it is.

 

[Nathan45]

Did any of the writers of Scripture address you personally? That's just another excuse to not accept something God says.

And what did God say? If God ever said anything to me, i'd listen, but the passage you quote doesn't even purport to quote God.

It quotes Paul writing a letter to Tomothy, saying timothy should continue to believe what he believed from scriptures he read. I don't know what timothy believed or what scriptures he read, and really neither do you.

 

[Zaac]

And what did God say? If God ever said anything to me, i'd listen, but the passage you quote doesn't even purport to quote God.

You can start at the beginningof Scripture and work your way to the end. Lots of it doesn't purport to quote God. Scripture is GOD-inspired, not necessarily God-quoted.

It quotes Paul writing a letter to Timothy, saying timothy should continue to believe what he believed from scriptures he read. I don't know what timothy believed or what scriptures he read, and really neither do you.

Sure I know what Scriptures Timothy believed and read. It was a reference to that part of Scripture that had been written down at that point: the OT.

 

[Nathan45]

Sure I know what Scriptures Timothy believed and read. It was a reference to that part of Scripture that had been written down at that point: the OT.

exactly. which don't mention the "lake of fire" or eternal torment.

 

[gwenmead]

Afterlife mythology is a creative expression of human curiosity about what happens to our consciousness after we die.

Hell is a punitive afterlife concept, probably intended to help keep people in line while alive.

 

[Zaac]

exactly. which don't mention the "lake of fire" or eternal torment.

There was also unwritten Scripture that had not been written down because there was no need to at the point that Timothy was written. Oral tradition as experienced by the disciples was passing around also. And that was later written down as Scripture.

Just as sure as they knew of Jesus Christ, they knew of hell.

God's Scriptural revelation was not closed at this point.

 

[Beanieboy]

I'm very intrigued by a book called Martin Zender Goes To Hell, which challenge most Christian doctrine using Scripture.

Here's what I find a little peculiar:
Some Christians seem to shrug off the fact that nonbelievers burn in a hell for eternity where they are tortured for ever. It doesn't seem to bother them.
Some even get excited, a kind "When my dad comes home, he's going to beat you up" revenge fantasy.
I have read about how one's flesh is torn off, only to grow back and be torn off again.
We have flesh in helL? We have bodies, just like on Earth? So, what is that thing decaying in the ground?

I think hell is simply cutting yourself off from others in selfishness. In the afterlife, it is a burnishing off of the things that prevent you from entering a realm of love, because selfishness, anger, and hatred won't allow it. However, I think hell is a place of healing, preparing you to be able to be one with God.

Then again, I believe that all people will eventually be returned to God, and we will all be one. To someone with a revenge fantasy, that would be a huge downer, making heaven their own hell.

 

[GrayCat]

I think that hell is a word in the English language.