Thanks,Aren’t there a number of Eastern Orthodox and Coptic Orthodox churches in South Africa? Also, my understanding was that while the Anglican Province of South Africa was relatively liberal, it was also fairly high church. Also, what about the Traditional Latin Mass? In my experience that has become fairly widespread since Sacrosanctum Concilium. When I visited some relatives in Burkina Faso, I spent a few days in Ghana, and was impressed by how Anglo Catholic the Anglican Church in Ghana was.
I have a very good South African friend who joined the Russian Orthodox Church but was raised in the Reformed Church. Perhaps if things are as bad as you say they are, we should go there and work with like minded South Africans to set up new churches with a focus on liturgical beauty.
What if you are adding to God's word? Jesus doesn't say as much about it as you do.On the contrary, the very opposite!
I think that there is a bigger picture to the question of sacraments. We understand sacraments to be outward and visible signs of inward and spiritual grace. Now signs have to point to something (New York 427 Miles --->) or declare Something (Welcome to New York).
Now each of us is called to live our life pointing to the truth of God and declaring something of the grace of God as we have experienced it.
The seven or two or how many you want to talk about, are good, and the show us something of what we should be. I think we should live life sacramentally, we should be the things that these seven or two point us to, and I think that the historical tradition of the Church highlight the few in order that we may be the many sacraments.
It means acts, ideas, or the like handed down, and doesn't refer in particular to religious doctrines.
Not if you look at who he said it to.
The apostles jointly and Peter alone.
Which of course brings in the question of tradition and authority.
We see in the NT that Jesus accepts the authority of "Moses Chair". But theres the problem. The reference to moses chair handed to joshua, judges etc, is in the "mishnah" which is tradition committed to paper. Paul tells us to hold true to the faith handed down "tradition we told youby word of mouth and letter". And that tradition is visible in ignatius to the smyrneans as a eucharist of the real flesh.
Of course the word "traditions" does not necessarily refer entirely to religious doctrine.It refers entirely to religious doctrine. (which in some cases are acts like eucharist)
That is certainly not true. We know for a fact that some of the NT was being written and circulated within only a few years after the Ascension. By the time that the Bible was canonized, all of the books that were collected into it (with the possible exception of the last several) were already in use in the various churches and were considered divinely inspired.It is the ONLY way the faith was handed down for the first christians.
Okay. I agree that "Holy Tradition" AKA "Sacred Tradition," which the Catholic churches consider to be of equal authority to the Holy Bible, is not a parallel channel of additional dogma, etc.The present colloquial meaning of tradition is a problem, as is the false presumption that it is a parallel channel of different truths.
Very well. That's probably right.There is little point in this discussion. We go round the same circles.
Prayer does this too. WHy make more of it than Paul or Jesus does? Scares me...Nope. And by your own admission. You yourself agreed that they unite us spiritually to the Lord in some way. And the verse you quoted still says: "This is my body."
Yep.
Right, which is a good indication that it is more than a memorial.
Where do you find ANY example of what you think in the NT faith and practice?The point was that Jesus DOES make more of it than just a memorial (although it is that as well).
The passage being referred to (This is my body, which was given for you, etc.) is taken right from Luke's Gospel account of the Last Supper.
Where do you find examples of sacramental salvation in the NT? They do not exist.Actually if we look at the Greek, he did not say it was a memorial. The word he used was anamnesis, which has a meaning closer to recapitulation. The best way to translate what the KJV reads as “Do this in remembrance of me” would be something along the lines of “As often as you do this, be a part of this moment.”
From the Anamnesis, many Eucharistic Theologians have made a compelling case that there has really only ever been one Lord’s Supper, one Holy Communion, one Eucharist or Great Thanksgiving, and that in the course of tje Divine Service, through the grace of the Holy Spirit, we are mystically present with Christ and His disciples in the Cenacle.
Do you like them, do you oppose them? Share your opinion.
These were already saved. And Both Jesus and Paul said it was done in memory of Christ.Luke 22:19
How so?This is self-salvation by works. You go beyond Paul and Jesus in giving your ideas about the eucharist.
This is self-salvation by works. You go beyond Paul and Jesus in giving your ideas about the eucharist.
This is beautiful.Actually if we look at the Greek, he did not say it was a memorial. The word he used was anamnesis, which has a meaning closer to recapitulation. The best way to translate what the KJV reads as “Do this in remembrance of me” would be something along the lines of “As often as you do this, be a part of this moment.”
From the Anamnesis, many Eucharistic Theologians have made a compelling case that there has really only ever been one Lord’s Supper, one Holy Communion, one Eucharist or Great Thanksgiving, and that in the course of tje Divine Service, through the grace of the Holy Spirit, we are mystically present with Christ and His disciples in the Cenacle.
He atoned for the sins of the elect before they were born again. Repentance follows as a result of this.No, its not, because God freely forgives our sins if we repent, as Psalm 51 teaches. “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.” and of course, “Thou shalt sprinkle me with hyssop, and I shall be cleansed: thou shalt wash me, and I shall be made whiter than snow.”
Seeking the forgiveness of God and repenting of our sins before partaking of the Eucharist is not works righteousness, but rather the works which are the fruit of a living faith, as the Apostle James teaches, for a faith without works is barren and dead.
These were already saved. And Both Jesus and Paul said it was done in memory of Christ.
But it has no saving merit.Whether or not they were saved has nothing to do with the nature and meaning of the meal and whether or not it is the basis of a sacrament.
But, in addition, I just showed you, several times, that Christ himself said that it was more than a remembrance.
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