What do you think about ephebophilia?

[Gregory Thompson]

Why?

The age of consent varies quite a lot around the world. It even varies in North America. what is it in Alabama, Montana or Hawaii?

Since there is an age of consent, the biblical context would not apply. The biblical context had arranged marriages and a totally different social dynamic.

 

[Whyayeman]

Since there is an age of consent, the biblical context would not apply. The biblical context had arranged marriages and a totally different social dynamic.

I agree. The Bible does not give any guidance on the subject.

However, there is patently no agreed age of consent. Different parts of the world have different laws on the subject. As far as I can tell different states in the USA have different laws.

Ultimately it is not solely a matter of law; there is amoral dimension which is more interesting and more complicated. I am interested in people's views here, but am myself undecided. There is an argument that whatever the legal age of consent is decided by law it will be an arbitrary figure. There will be young people who are mature enough to make their own decisions about their sexuality and others who need the law's protection.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I agree. The Bible does not give any guidance on the subject.

However, there is patently no agreed age of consent. Different parts of the world have different laws on the subject. As far as I can tell different states in the USA have different laws.

Ultimately it is not solely a matter of law; there is amoral dimension which is more interesting and more complicated. I am interested in peole's views here, but am myself undecided. There is an argument that whatever the legal age of consent is decided by law it will be an arbitrary figure. There will be young people who are mature enough to make their own decisions about their sexuality and others who need the law's protection.

North American culture is too individualistic, so there will be some "it does not follow" moments when trying to apply the bible to this culture and other similar cultures.

 

[Yuwang]

What do you think about ephebophilia? Do you think it's bad like pedophilia? I have this question because in some historical cultures, it's not uncommon for people to get married during late adolescence (even under 18), and the bible said sex should only come after marriage. Do you think ephebophilia is bad and immora.?

I could not find ephebophilia in the American Heritage Dictionary of the English dictionary. It did mention ephebe from Greek hebe youth, power, strength, & vigor. What is wrong with that?
As for pedophilia, there is paideuo train a child; paidiske, a female slave, servant, damsel, maid.
philia is simply love. 300 years ago, girls got "married at ages 10 and up, some earlier than that. And at age 14, males were considered adult.
Our nice pharisaical society loves to confuse things and create burdens, which is part of the reason the USA society so habitually loves vicious, murderous wars that have killed millions of people over the last 200 years.

 

[RileyG]

It's man's definition. Does the bible say what is the age of adulthood?

I don’t know.

 

[Whyayeman]

I don’t know.

Nor me. I cannot off-hand think of any age references apart from all those lists of impossibly old descendants of Adam. As an atheist it is not relevant to the case.

Any age of consent will have something of the arbitrary about it. Shouldn't this be about maturity and responsibility rather than the Bible's lack of guidance?

 

[thejoshbro]

I could not find ephebophilia in the American Heritage Dictionary of the English dictionary. It did mention ephebe from Greek hebe youth, power, strength, & vigor. What is wrong with that?
As for pedophilia, there is paideuo train a child; paidiske, a female slave, servant, damsel, maid.
philia is simply love. 300 years ago, girls got "married at ages 10 and up, some earlier than that. And at age 14, males were considered adult.
Our nice pharisaical society loves to confuse things and create burdens, which is part of the reason the USA society so habitually loves vicious, murderous wars that have killed millions of people over the last 200 years.

so you think ephebophilia isn't wrong?

 

[Niels]

Ultimately it is not solely a matter of law; there is amoral dimension which is more interesting and more complicated. I am interested in people's views here, but am myself undecided. There is an argument that whatever the legal age of consent is decided by law it will be an arbitrary figure. There will be young people who are mature enough to make their own decisions about their sexuality and others who need the law's protection.

Unfortunately, calling a child "mature for their age" can be a tactic used by groomers. And adolescents like to think they are mature. In which case, both the groomer and the victim will agree that the victim is mature enough. Despite the fact that the victim lacks the necessary perspective to make good decisions.

Also, I question the maturity of anybody who is so eager to marry near the age of consent or have such a young partner. Surely, they can wait for better timing if they're highly mature. Just because something is legal that doesn't mean it's wise. Maturity often reveals itself through a willingness to delay gratification. In this case, waiting for a better time to participate in romantic relationships.

It's one thing if most people marry at 16 in a particular culture, in which young marriages are the social norm, but quite another if most people marry at 28 in another culture and somebody in that culture wants to marry at 16. In my opinion, that 16 year old is not demonstrating maturity by trying to marry at such a young age.

 

[Whyayeman]

Unfortunately, calling a child "mature for their age" can be a tactic used by groomers. And adolescents like to think they are mature. In which case, both the groomer and the victim will agree that the victim is mature enough. Despite the fact that the victim lacks the necessary perspective to make good decisions.

Also, I question the maturity of anybody who is so eager to marry near the age of consent or have such a young partner. Surely, they can wait for better timing if they're highly mature. Just because something is legal that doesn't mean it's wise. Maturity often reveals itself through a willingness to delay gratification. In this case, waiting for a better time to participate in romantic relationships.

It's one thing if most people marry at 16 in a particular culture, in which young marriages are the social norm, but quite another if most people marry at 28 in another culture and somebody in that culture wants to marry at 16. In my opinion, that 16 year old is not demonstrating maturity by trying to marry at such a young age.

Yes, I agree with all of that. We are still left with a conundrum. Any age of consent to marriage or to engage in sexual relations which is fixed by law must have about it something of the arbitrary. If the law sets that age as - say - eighteen, what to do about a couple who are seventeen years and eleven months?

Nobody becomes an adult over-night.

 

[Niels]

Yes, I agree with all of that. We are still left with a conundrum. Any age of consent to marriage or to engage in sexual relations which is fixed by law must have about it something of the arbitrary. If the law sets that age as - say - eighteen, what to do about a couple who are seventeen years and eleven months?

Nobody becomes an adult over-night.

I suppose it should be sufficiently high to allow for some wiggle room, depending on circumstances. Perhaps set the law at 18 years of age if 17 is the minimum that is reasonably acceptable in the culture.

 

[Robban]

Clumsy fingers.

Was making a post and touched some button and it dissapeared.

 

[Robban]

.

nm

 

[thejoshbro]

Unfortunately, calling a child "mature for their age" can be a tactic used by groomers. And adolescents like to think they are mature. In which case, both the groomer and the victim will agree that the victim is mature enough. Despite the fact that the victim lacks the necessary perspective to make good decisions.

Also, I question the maturity of anybody who is so eager to marry near the age of consent or have such a young partner. Surely, they can wait for better timing if they're highly mature. Just because something is legal that doesn't mean it's wise. Maturity often reveals itself through a willingness to delay gratification. In this case, waiting for a better time to participate in romantic relationships.

It's one thing if most people marry at 16 in a particular culture, in which young marriages are the social norm, but quite another if most people marry at 28 in another culture and somebody in that culture wants to marry at 16. In my opinion, that 16 year old is not demonstrating maturity by trying to marry at such a young age.

just find another similiar post:

ephebophilia: moral or immoral?

Do you believe ephebophilia(attraction to mid-to-late already developed adolescents(15-18) is wrong/sick or immoral? When I was in college I used to know allot of guys who were still dating girls from H.S. In fact when I was a senior in H.S. most girls where dating college guys. By US law these...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Nithavela]

It's a normal sexual expression for humans. It makes sense, since that age bracket is the one where humans are most fertile. Most people also don't frown upon teenagers having relationships with each other at that age bracket. That's why the age of consent in many western countries is at 12-16, as long as the age difference isn't too big. (By the way, modern psychology defines ephebophilia as anything involving the ages 14-21, so plenty of ephebophilic relationships are legal).

Problems arise when there is a significant age, and thus power difference between the two people in a relationship. If you have a 30 year old man marrying a 14 year old girl, that is obviously against western society norms, though quite common in many other cultures. This kind of marriage also makes sense for procreation. The male is old enough and wealthy enough to care for his family, while the female is at prime child bearing age. Of course, since girls at that age aren't emotionally mature, and usually have such a marriage foisted upon them, this kind of relationship is usually wrong. But forced marriages due to a power difference between men and women are wrong regardless of age.

Also, lets not pretend that there aren't also plenty of older women who prefer teenage men.