What do you think about christians using fear?

[selfinflikted]

"People die all the time. Your Jesus is a lie." -Every unbeliever if that's all you tell them

Keep going.

Except most unbelievers here know that the above passages are not talking about physical death.

 

[Timothew]

"People die all the time. Your Jesus is a lie." -Every unbeliever if that's all you tell them

Keep going.

What do you tell them? I try to stick to what the bible actually says. Did you notice that everything I said was straight out of the bible verbatum? If someone doesn't believe the bible is true, there is not much else I can do. At that point, I respect their beliefs and agree to disagree. There is no reason to earn myself a punch in the nose!

 

[Timothew]

Except most unbelievers here know that the above passages are not talking about physical death.

I try to not change the meaning of what the bible says.

 

[Puptart]

But the point I'm trying to get at is do you agree with making people afraid of hell?

I most certainly do not. I think it's petty.

And what do you think about the people that try to be christain but wouldn't believe if they weren't threatened by eternal torture? I would really like to hear opinions.

I used to be one of those people. I have friends as well who were pretty much traumatized by the fact that they were threatened with hell for years.. to the point where they would have nightmares if they even thought about leaving the faith. I call that brainwashing of the worst degree to be quite honest. Mental terrorism in a way..

So I stopped believing. Became an atheist for.. oh I dunno, two years, maybe three. For me it didn't last, because in all honesty I don't think I've ever really stopped believing in God.. I've just stopped believing in the way other people want me to believe in God. And I'm a far healthier person for it.

Did you know (rambling) that some people shove a dog's nose in his or her own "mess" if they have an accident? I'm sure you've heard of it, but there are legitimately tons of people who do.. and do you know what that teaches the dog? To fear humans, that's what it teaches. The dog has no clue what it is being punished for or why it is being harmed / threatened / etc.

If you, however, pick up the dog and take it outside every 30 minutes, and praise the dog for going where it is supposed to go.. you will have one house-broken dog in no time at all. Keep shoving the nose in the mess, and you'll have a neurotic, fearful dog who has no respect for you.

There are good, positive reasons to believe, without having to shove people's noses in their own mess. People just have misconceptions on how to go about the alternative.

Good luck on your journey!

 

[citizenthom]

Except most unbelievers here know that the above passages are not talking about physical death.

Here, maybe, but out in the world? And many if not most unbelievers think Hell is a punishment when it is in fact just the natural consequence of eternal separation from God; how can you explain the Gospel without that essential distinction between our fallen state and eternal union with God?

 

[selfinflikted]

Here, maybe, but out in the world? And many if not most unbelievers think Hell is a punishment when it is in fact just the natural consequence of eternal separation from God; how can you explain the Gospel without that essential distinction between our fallen state and eternal union with God?

Many, if not most Christians think hell is a punishment. Chew on that.

 

[Timothew]

Many, if not most Christians think hell is a punishment. Chew on that.

You are probably right.

I'm not most Christians.

 

[selfinflikted]

You are probably right.

I'm not most Christians.

I can tell.

 

[dies-l]

If you think you can explain the Gospel without mentioning Hell at all, then you haven't properly understood Christ's sacrifice.

Also, there is a big difference between "threatening" and describing.

Can you show me where in Scripture Jesus or any of the NT writers used the classic evangelistic formula of "believe in Jesus so you don't go to Hell when you die"?

 

[dies-l]

Except most unbelievers here know that the above passages are not talking about physical death.

Except, I think that they clearly are talking about a death that is both physical and spiritual. CT's point seems to be that if I don't tell you that you are going to be tortured forever in Hell (which is not stated anywhere in Scripture), then you are not going to have any motivation to believe the Gospel. However, Jesus, Paul, and the other biblical evangelists saw the Gospel in terms of death vs. eternal life, not hell vs. heaven. They take something that everyone is already familiar with (death) and offer an alternative (eternal life). And, the means by which we receive eternal life is the power by which God raised Christ from the dead (i.e., resurrection). So, the promise of the Gospel is not that, if we believe, we will never physically die; it is that, through faith, we have the promise of resurrection, which is both physical and spiritual. And, the very notion of resurrection and eternal life as a fate for faithful believers absolutely precludes the notion of Hell as an eternal torture chamber, as the dead do not experience pain or pleasure.

So, ultimately, the idea that I can scare the hell out of you, by telling you about this place of eternal torment that some Christians believe you will go to when you die is rather silly. Instead, I can do as the evangelists in Scripture do and tell what you already know (that you will die and will be dead forever), but that I believe that there is a solution, if you want it, and that God's plan is better than death.

 

[hosea1316]

It's an underhanded strategy that works. It not only generates converts, it also helps keep the flock in line.

I'm fairly certain that if people didn't believe in hell, there'd be far fewer Christians in the world.

I have to agree with you, if I recall there was a quote by segan who said "the laws of physics does not give people morals to live by" (I can't remember how exactly it was said) but he was right, religion was made so humans have guide lines of what's right and wrong, so people can be controlled, and if they break those rules they are threatened by hell. "keep the flock in line" as you put it. But this day in age I don't see it as necessary.

 

[selfinflikted]

Except, I think that they clearly are talking about a death that is both physical and spiritual. CT's point seems to be that if I don't tell you that you are going to be tortured forever in Hell (which is not stated anywhere in Scripture), then you are not going to have any motivation to believe the Gospel. However, Jesus, Paul, and the other biblical evangelists saw the Gospel in terms of death vs. eternal life, not hell vs. heaven. They take something that everyone is already familiar with (death) and offer an alternative (eternal life). And, the means by which we receive eternal life is the power by which God raised Christ from the dead (i.e., resurrection). So, the promise of the Gospel is not that, if we believe, we will never physically die; it is that, through faith, we have the promise of resurrection, which is both physical and spiritual. And, the very notion of resurrection and eternal life as a fate for faithful believers absolutely precludes the notion of Hell as an eternal torture chamber, as the dead do not experience pain or pleasure.

So, ultimately, the idea that I can scare the hell out of you, by telling you about this place of eternal torment that some Christians believe you will go to when you die is rather silly. Instead, I can do as the evangelists in Scripture do and tell what you already know (that you will die and will be dead forever), but that I believe that there is a solution, if you want it, and that God's plan is better than death.

I was a Christian for more than a few years and I have never heard anyone else claim that the eternal life promised in the Bible was anything other than spiritual. So, you think there will be a physical resurrection involved as well? Interesting.

 

[Timothew]

Except, I think that they clearly are talking about a death that is both physical and spiritual. CT's point seems to be that if I don't tell you that you are going to be tortured forever in Hell (which is not stated anywhere in Scripture), then you are not going to have any motivation to believe the Gospel. However, Jesus, Paul, and the other biblical evangelists saw the Gospel in terms of death vs. eternal life, not hell vs. heaven. They take something that everyone is already familiar with (death) and offer an alternative (eternal life). And, the means by which we receive eternal life is the power by which God raised Christ from the dead (i.e., resurrection). So, the promise of the Gospel is not that, if we believe, we will never physically die; it is that, through faith, we have the promise of resurrection, which is both physical and spiritual. And, the very notion of resurrection and eternal life as a fate for faithful believers absolutely precludes the notion of Hell as an eternal torture chamber, as the dead do not experience pain or pleasure.

So, ultimately, the idea that I can scare the hell out of you, by telling you about this place of eternal torment that some Christians believe you will go to when you die is rather silly. Instead, I can do as the evangelists in Scripture do and tell what you already know (that you will die and will be dead forever), but that I believe that there is a solution, if you want it, and that God's plan is better than death.

 

[Timothew]

I was a Christian for more than a few years and I have never heard anyone else claim that the eternal life promised in the Bible was anything other than spiritual. So, you think there will be a physical resurrection involved as well? Interesting.

I'm surprised that you are just now hearing this. A physical resurrection is part of the Nicene Creed which most Christians hold to as a statement of their beliefs. "I look for the resurrection of the dead."

 

[selfinflikted]

I'm surprised that you are just now hearing this. A physical resurrection is part of the Nicene Creed which most Christians hold to as a statement of their beliefs. "I look for the resurrection of the dead."

Before coming here a few years ago, I had never heard of the Nicene Creed. Dunno if it has anything to do with being raised as a Southern Baptist, but I considered myself well-read with respect to the Bible, and that was just something I'd never encountered.

 

[Timothew]

Before coming here a few years ago, I had never heard of the Nicene Creed. Dunno if it has anything to do with being raised as a Southern Baptist, but I considered myself well-read with respect to the Bible, and that was just something I'd never encountered.

Oh, that's why. Southern Baptists don't recite the creed during church services. My church doesn't either, but my beliefs align with the Nicene Creed.

 

[selfinflikted]

Oh, that's why. Southern Baptists don't recite the creed during church services. My church doesn't either, but my beliefs align with the Nicene Creed.

Yea. I remember a lot of animated preaching and a LOT of singing (my favorite part).

ETA: Even though there isn't one iota of religiousness left in me, "In the Garden" is still one of my favorites.

 

[dies-l]

I was a Christian for more than a few years and I have never heard anyone else claim that the eternal life promised in the Bible was anything other than spiritual. So, you think there will be a physical resurrection involved as well? Interesting.

Yes, and I am convinced that a physical resurrection is central to the Christian faith. But, I would add the caveat that your physical presence now might be very different from your physical presence at the resurrection (Paul analogized a seed and tree with our earthly bodies and our heavenly bodies). I also believe that the resurrection will occur here on earth, not in some other place called "heaven". Rather, I believe that heaven will come to Earth. If you're interested, you might take a look at 1 Corinthians 15 as well as Revelation 21. If you are even more interested, N.T. Wright (who is an Anglican bishop) wrote a book a few years back called Surprised by Hope, which I have found to be the most coherent and biblically consistent explanation of the resurrection that I have read.

 

[hollyda]

Before coming here a few years ago, I had never heard of the Nicene Creed. Dunno if it has anything to do with being raised as a Southern Baptist, but I considered myself well-read with respect to the Bible, and that was just something I'd never encountered.

I was raised Church of Christ, and never encountered the term Nicene Creed until I started studying religion in college. Some denominations consider themselves completely separate from Christian history, or branches of mainstream Christianity altogether. The Church of Christ, for instance, believes only members of the Church of Christ will get into Heaven. You Southern Baptists, according to them, would go down down down in a burning ring of fire.

 

[ebia]

I was a Christian for more than a few years and I have never heard anyone else claim that the eternal life promised in the Bible was anything other than spiritual. So, you think there will be a physical resurrection involved as well? Interesting.

It's pretty sad. Yes - Christianity is all about physical resurrection on a renewed, redeemed, earth. A non-physical escape from this world to a spiritual afterlife is not Christianity at all but a semi-Gnosticism.