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You basically made my point. Every book written looks at what’s going on in that day and makes it fit.Hi if you take that book in 1977 and look at some of the metrics they used it is interesting to consider them. For instance in the 70's and early 80's men like Billy Graham were quoted as saying things like if God does not judge America then he owes Sodom and Gomorrah and apology. You see they immovable end of a one world government and Israel getting the Temple, Ezekiel 38 and all are still on the board. Where they were wrong is in thinking that the US would fall and Europe would rise and become the 10 nations of Daniel. Now they also though we were as evil as could be and that judgment was nigh.
They also understood that the abomination of desolation would occur in the temple and in that day the Temple Institute made great gains in that front and many peace covenants were tossed about that very well could have been the covenant with the many made in Daniel 9 as expected.
So lets move forward to today and also consider Jer who was a young man when called and he preached a message that did not come to pass in full until he was very old. Now the evil of the world today verses 1977. Gay marriage is now legal in almost every country and even that basic fact of Genesis is now past tense that there are only two genders. Satan aspiration is to be like the most high and now we have genetically modified almost all crops and God created them and noted it was good now they are no longer made by the creator by hijacked with new codes. The world government is certainly now coming and if you study the great reset which is a real time plan with the support of most world leaders we are seeing it moving forward very quickly. The idea of Europe ruling the world is not going to happen but the idea of 10 leaders of 10 zones like the EU rising to power is very real. The beast gains control over all for only 42 months and then that is it Armageddon.
The symbols back then were plenty like the EU HQ being designed like an unfinished tower of Babel complete with a sculpture of a woman riding the beast on the outside. Now we have global symbols such as the UN making a replica of the ark of the covenant and placing the UN earth charter in it and carrying it on poles and placing it into the UN building in New York all decorated in new age symbols. Symbolically this is replacing the 10 commandments and right now the IMF is waiting to be the global federal reserve of the world.
You see if you list all the prophecy about Israel, Jerusalem the earth there is a before and after picture.
The key moment is when Jesus comes then compare to after he comes. You will not see abortion, gay marriage, genocides, Islam or any other false religion until the beast is loosed. There will be world peace and an abundance of grain and Jerusalem will be where Jesus sits on Davids throne and the new river created when the My of Olives splits is flowing in Ezekiel 47 when the 12 tribes gain their inheritance in the land. Look at Zech 12 and tell me when has this been fulfilled?
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. 3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it. 4 In that day,” says the LORD, “I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, ‘The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the LORD of hosts, their God.’ 6 In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a firepan in the woodpile, and like a fiery torch in the sheaves; they shall devour all the surrounding peoples on the right hand and on the left, but Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place—Jerusalem.
7 “The LORD will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. 8 In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
This is a long answer and barely covers any of the multitudes of the before and after aspect that is harmonious in both testaments.
Hi I must admit the faith of those who hold to Rev being a historical book and already completed is strong despite every detail the futurist hold lining up in real time in current events.
I am amazed by the high level of education on end times prophecy exhibited here but I am surprised by the fact that nobody has as of yet adequately explained the mark. At least as far as I can tell.
"This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666."
So, who is the one who has understanding? And the term, count or calculate or whatever the exact translation is, is interesting. That implies a mathematical process. And is the number three 6's? The text makes it sound like a literal six hundred and sixty six. In other words a sum.
Then that number is the number of a man. I can't think of any number that would represent a man in biblical terms but today numbers are commonly used to ID people: SOC, drivers License, medical cards, insurance, credit, etc but what number would somebody be refering to 2000 years ago? Census, tax ID, the Roman's kept records. Age, weight, height, IQ, shoe size, cranial diameter....
Clearly I don't have wisdom in this context because I don't see it.
Edit: I wonder if this is relevant? "Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold." 1 Kings 10:14
Do you conclude, then that the mark is related to how hard you work......e.g. the amount of material possessions you are able to accumulate?Yes, the one with understanding would have read the proverbs of Solomon. So the prophet of the beast is based on the mammon of Solomon. God said don't amass lot of God, he did it anyway - the materialism of Solomon is the template of the prophet of the beast.
As Jesus said, you cannot worship God and Mammon. So the other option is "the anti"
The problem with that is current events is that they are a moving target and the Bible can be contorted to any current event whether it be now or 1000 years ago. The SDA was born because of current events of that time and many past and present heresies were made around current events because they saw what they thought was the Bible happening in front of them. That is the problem with currents events match the Bible thinking, it does a huge disservice to the Bible by forgetting what the Bible is. Which is namely, an ancient book inspired by the Holy Spirit written for us but not to us. So we have silly speculation like what is the mark and when will it all happen instead of looking at the historical context or really any context.
Yes, the one with understanding would have read the proverbs of Solomon. So the prophet of the beast is based on the mammon of Solomon. God said don't amass lot of God, he did it anyway - the materialism of Solomon is the template of the prophet of the beast.
As Jesus said, you cannot worship God and Mammon. So the other option is "the anti"
Hi the SDA is a split off group from the Millerites who set a date for the rapture and when it did not happen some claimed Jesus mystically did fulfill that and the 7th day adventist are one of those groups. There always has been splinter groups who can be shown from scripture to be departing from scripture. .
This is future and still coming.
I don't think so.Do you conclude, then that the mark is related to hoe hard your work......e.g. the amount of material possessions you are able to accumulate?
I will disagree. First century.
1844 was the date set by the Millerites and it is the same date your group was founded the Millerites were wrong to set a date now what a coincidence that it just happened to be date conjured up to claim Jesus made it to the sanctuary of heaven. Your link and roots to the Millerite movement should be obvious. If you preceded 1844 you might have a different root but I think SDA did not become an official organization until 1863.Hi Brian, i wonder if you might clarify what you mean by this?
I can categorically deny that SDA's have inserted a mystical anything for example one concerning the mystical secret rapture...it is not our doctrine (that is JW's).
William Miller remained convinced of his second coming prediction well after the SDA's left the Millerite movement.
Our church does not have any mystical earthly events in its doctrine that i can think of...our only diverging from mainstream theology is that of the nature of the heavenly sanctuary.
Our church has simply looked at the 70 week prophecy in Daniel and with what is actually very simple logic and interpretation of that prophecy realised that 1844 lines up with the idea that Jesus entered into the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary (as the priest did in the earthly copy prior to the cross) to undertake the next part of the sanctuary process in heaven.
We must all accept that the earthly sanctuary is but a copy of the heavenly one. This includes the services and processes undertaken in both sanctuaries. So it makes sense that in the heavenly sanctuary, Jesus would follow the exact proceedures the priests undertook here on earth.
In light of that, why is it that SDA's should be branded a mystic cult because they believe that Jesus (our high priest) has now moved into the most holy place in 1844? He couldnt have gone in the prior to his death, the day of Pentecost wasnt until weeks after he left the earth...so when exactly did this happen?
Daniels prophecy does actually line up with 1844. In any case, does this doctrine really save or condemn anyone? Are SDA's heretics for believing in this process in the plan of salvation?
I would label a wicked person/group as someone very different from such a doctrine...those who intentionally falsely translate/write their own bible to support pre existing doctrine for example! (we know 2 denominations that do that)
Not contradicting your premise, and admittedly my knowledge of the SDA is pretty limited but is it possible that there are contradicting philosophies within the same church? I've seen that in other churches. Plus I have watched a number of the Doug Bachelor videos, not on this topic in specific, but what I saw seemed pretty sound as far as I could tell. Certainly nothing wacky or outside of standard Christian teaching.
Hi can you support your position with thought and the scripture? My belief is based on believing the prophecy about Jesus in Luke one. This passage clearly notes that Jesus will keep the promises covenants and oaths to the fathers that Israel will be delivered from their enemies and form that time on the shall serve the LORD without fear and now in holiness and righteousness all the days of their lives.I will disagree. First century.
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John in the book of Revelation is specifically talking about end times.
So to say, the mark of the beast is already past is a complete misunderstanding of the entire book of Revelation.
Nobody has seen the “Secret Mark” only a photograph copy. No way to check it’s age or anythingWas probably the secret gospel of Mark. It was so provocative that people were tattooing the text on their right hands and foreheads.
It’s not one verse. It’s multiple verses throughout the New Testament, either explicit or implied. But just Matthew 23 and 24, and Revelation 1 would be sufficient.your hinging your whole case on that one verse
Now if you take that interpretation to mean they will happen quickly when they do happen rather than shortly as in meaning at the near time this was written you will have to consider then what happens and did it already happen.
Hi can you support your position with thought and the scripture
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