What do you see masturbating as? Sin? Sorry about all the topics you must have!

[Gamezilla]

I very much agree. This debate has taken a very ugly turn (well, uglier than it was originally), one I don't particularly care for.

I don't care which side started this sickening hostility, I just want it gone.

Same here, bro. I believe I'm done with this thread.

 

[Digit]

+1 for closure... and cookies.

Mmm... cookies!

\o/

Digit

 

[holo]

When a man places His mind on things above, he can't go far wrong.

Nowhere in this thread have you placed your mind on things above. Your mind is solely on morality and on the private lives of others.

 

[holo]

Doing all those things that God requires with our hands, there is no instruction in scripture to include manipulating our genitals in His name.

So therefore it's sinful?

That's THE poorest argument ever.

 

[holo]

YES! The thing is, if you rely on logic and reason, you are relying on an inconstant, a fallible thing, and no faith can stand on that. It's sinking sand.

Floatingaxe, is your ability to interpret the bible infallible?

It must be pretty close, at least, since you apparently find it "clear" that the bible, which doesn't ever mention masturbation, prohibits it.

 

[holo]

Using our hands for holy use does not include unhloy uses.

Could you give an example of a "holy use" of the hand?

 

[holo]

But to venomously talk about a woman who is old enough to be your mother is totally disrespectful. Does your mama know what you do? Does she do your laundry--or do you have to hide your enjoyable right?

Come on, youngster.

Yuck.

You talk about being disrespectful? You can't even accept such a basic thing as disagreement over things - no, if someone disagrees with you, they disagree with God and the bible, and they are perverted and have closed themselves off to the Spirit.

And you talk about people younger than you as if they somehow owe you respect because of your age, while you yourself are spewing disrespect and insults all over them.

Don't accuse other of not respecting you when you yourself have not respect for anything but your own opinion, and while doing nothing at all to earn that respect.

 

[Followers4christ]

My reason is based on reason. The methodology of reason and rationality does not change with social trends.

Do not rely on your own reasoning,but on God's.God Bless


Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;


1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness"


1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?


Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.

 

[Followers4christ]

Yes touching yourself is a Sin.The body is meant to glorify God not our own lustful desires.God Bless


1 Corinthians 6:12-13 "Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything."Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Ephesians 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;

 

[Digit]

Could you give an example of a "holy use" of the hand?

Prayer.

Digit

 

[Digit]

Yes touching yourself is a Sin.The body is meant to glorify God not our own lustful desires.God Bless


1 Corinthians 6:12-13 "Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything."Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Ephesians 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;

That's great if sexual immorality includes masturbation, yet nowhere does it say it does.

So...

Digit

 

[holo]

Prayer.

Digit

I don't pray with my hands though...

 

[Digit]

I don't pray with my hands though...

So what? I never said you did.

I gave an example of a holy use of our hands. Prayer and worship.

Digit.

 

[Jedi]

pleasure doesn't need a purpose? are you sure about that? let me ask you a question: is pleasure good? how can pleasure be good if it's void of meaning?

Simple: it feels good, it’s enjoyable. That’s enough reason to do anything. Your problem is trying to come up with something solid enough to outweigh the goodness of that enjoyment.

NO all things are by Him and for Him.

So we should refrain from watching movies, then? From reading a good book simply because it’s difficult to explain how we’re doing that with the explicit purpose of focusing on God? Give me a break. Your “if it’s not done for God, don’t do it at all” philosophy would have us refrain from all sorts of activities not because they’re bad in any way but because we can’t somehow prove they’re morally excellent. On the contrary, the fact is that these pleasures were meant for men by God. We were meant to enjoy the fruits of our creativity, the pleasures of our God-designed sexuality. Thus when we delight ourselves in these, we delight ourselves in the creation and genius of God, and what better praise for a creator than for people to enjoy His creation?

why do you see the need to defend masturbation?

Because people condemn it out of ignorant piety, throwing chains of guilt on others without due cause.

even if it isn't a sin, don't you think you should stop for the sake of the rest of us, and so we don't look MORE hypocritical to the world?

If you look hypocritical, that is your problem, not mine. I’m open and honest about the matter, which is more than I can say for so many in the church.

for what purpose are you masturbating (if you are; this discussion personally makes me sick. . . ). who are you serving? Pleasure?

Myself. Oh, I know, that’s a terrible thing to say, isn’t it? To actually do something not for some higher purpose but simply because you want to do it. Scary, huh? That’s what free people do.

or is this what paul was refering to when he said it would be better to mary than to burn with passion.

Not necessarily. It’s clear that Paul doesn’t want people to be sexually frustrated or tempted toward promiscuity to vent sexual tension. It is better to marry than to go crazy with desire for romantic and sexual intimacy. Paul is merely stating the obvious.

one more question: if you wanted to, could you quit? if not it's an obsession. masturbation is, by its nature, highly obsessive both spiritually and scientifically.

Yep. Any pleasure could be said to be “highly obsessive,” but that potential does not mean it’s inherently kinetic.

sir, chill. and no, you don't grow tired of any babble, you're still here aren't you.

Oh, I’m glad to see you’re a better authority on my feelings than me. That’s simply amazing. And you call me arrogant? Heh… the fact that I grow tired of her nonsense does not mean I’m past the point of exhaustion and surrender. Come on… that’s an obvious distinction you should have made.

are you always this arrogant acting while "defending" the truth?

I tried civility with Floatingaxe. It didn’t work. Now let’s play her own game of making things personal and see if that sinks in a little better.

how christlike.

How predictable: more self-righteous finger pointing in the form of sarcasm. Spare me.

I never said anyone here was shameful for doing so. Those were my own feelings on the matter, man.

Yes, you did. Saying “But those were just my feelings” doesn’t get you off the hook. I could say, “You’re a worthless sack and a coward for trying to condemn masturbation out of your ignorance” and somehow I don’t think the phrase “that’s just how I feel” takes any of the sting out of it or means I didn’t attack anyone. You said it, own up to it.

I guess that people cannot have a different opinion from yours in this thread, huh?

Having a different opinion is fine. That is not what you asserted. You attacked people themselves and that’s what I’m reacting against. There’s a fine difference.

You also failed to respond to one thing I said in one of your many quotes up there. "Love is the key to sex, and without it, God's gift is just being taken for granted.". Seems like you responded to everything else, but this.

My apologies – I didn’t think it worth responding to but since you apparently put more emphasis on this than I do, I’ll answer it head on: who cares? Who the flip cares that masturbation isn’t the fulfillment of our sexuality? No one has supposed otherwise. And no, enjoying sexuality by means of masturbation by no means requires people to “take it for granted.” They’re merely experiencing a less intense aspect of their sexuality and I’m sure they’re quite thankful for it.

This whole debate has become about you. Your getting upset that others aren't doing what you love to do. Whatever, man.

Haha, about me? Give me a break. This has become a debate now centered on people defending themselves against the personal attacks from self-righteous pigs and then you have the audacity to point the finger again when these people defend themselves. Haha, what irony…

It's not my job to cause guilt. So cut that nonsense. A 23-year-old who talks like you do, claiming it is a right to self-pleasure in the sight of God and all that is holy, is just acting like a child, and yes, you are correct---is in rebellion.

Hide behind your old age all you want, coward. The fact is that you sparked this entire debate into flames by making personal condemnations toward others, the defense of whom is a direct corollary of your self-righteousness. You’re right, I am in a state of rebellion – against self-righteous tyrants who would throw chains of guilt on those who need not bear them.

But to venomously talk about a woman who is old enough to be your mother is totally disrespectful. Does your mama know what you do? Does she do your laundry--or do you have to hide your enjoyable right?

Yes, you would know all about venom, wouldn’t you? You’ve been spitting it like a snake this entire discussion, even when people tried to be civil with you. Again, don’t hide behind your old age. If anything, your mind is already slipping, dulled from years innumerable, like a blade that has lost its edge.

Come on, youngster.

Come on, coward. Won’t you answer my question for once? From what basis do you assert that masturbation inherently falls into the category of “lust,” “of the flesh,” and “lack of self-control?”

Yes touching yourself is a Sin.The body is meant to glorify God not our own lustful desires.

Oh, yes, the same thing Floatingaxe has been trying: providing verses that advise against sexual immorality. I’m just going to repeat my question here. Maybe you’ll have more guts to answer it than she has: From what basis do you assert that masturbation inherently falls into the category of “lust,” “of the flesh,” and “lack of self-control?” The Bible condemns these things, sure, but if you can’t show how masturbation falls into these categories, condemning them does no good in this discussion.

 

[Calliso]

Yuck.

You talk about being disrespectful? You can't even accept such a basic thing as disagreement over things - no, if someone disagrees with you, they disagree with God and the bible, and they are perverted and have closed themselves off to the Spirit.

And you talk about people younger than you as if they somehow owe you respect because of your age, while you yourself are spewing disrespect and insults all over them.

Don't accuse other of not respecting you when you yourself have not respect for anything but your own opinion, and while doing nothing at all to earn that respect.

Exactly! besides respect is earned not given! Age shouldn;t automatically mean you are respected! If you donlt show and act like you deserve respect then you shouldn;t get any!

 

[Jedi]

Now if everyone would like to return this discussion to civility, I would be more than happy to do so. Be let me make this very clear: the moment floatingaxe or others start making personal jabs at people instead of focusing strictly on the moral standing of masturbation, the gloves are off. I'm fed-up with such condescending attitudes and it has no place in a philosophical discussion.

Now let's start with a question, shall we? What basis is there from which to assert that masturbation inherently falls into the categories of "lust," "of the flesh," "lack of self-control," or "sexual immorality?" We can all agree that these things are sinful - scripture condemns them as such. However, the question arises: is masturbation inherently included in these categories? If the prosecution can’t show how masturbation falls into these categories, condemning them does no good in this discussion.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Nowhere in this thread have you placed your mind on things above. Your mind is solely on morality and on the private lives of others.

What is this thread about but morality? Get off the pot and start acting like a mature man.

My moind is constantly searching about how God thinks of things. That is how I live.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Could you give an example of a "holy use" of the hand?

Good hard work, and lifting them in praise to Jesus Christ who dies for me and now lives in me! Praise His Almighty name!

Also, using our hands to serve others, and God, and to love those God gives us to love.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yuck.

...they disagree with God and the bible, and they are perverted and have closed themselves off to the Spirit.

Disagree with God and see where it gets you. You seem to need someone to point out His Word to you a lot.

And you talk about people younger than you as if they somehow owe you respect because of your age, while you yourself are spewing disrespect and insults all over them.

Not really. You get what you give.

Don't accuse other of not respecting you when you yourself have not respect for anything but your own opinion, and while doing nothing at all to earn that respect.

I have definitely earned the respect of Christians CF, and I respect them as well. People who pattern their lives after the Lord Jesus Christ know which end is up.

 

[Melethiel]

Closed for multiple violations of CF rules.