What do you see masturbating as? Sin? Sorry about all the topics you must have!

[Calliso]

With all the profuse and angry--even threatening arguing FOR the behaviour, you'd think that it WAS some of your lives!

Well considering your still here should we all assume then your whole life consists of being antimasturbation? Also angry and threatening? I donlt see any threats and not really anger more just frustration with you more then anything.

 

[Calliso]

No they don't.

Umm yes they do please provide proof they donlt.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Well considering your still here should we all assume then your whole life consists of being antimasturbation? Also angry and threatening? I donlt see any threats and not really anger more just frustration with you more then anything.

Oh well...

 

[Floatingaxe]

Umm yes they do please provide proof they donlt.

You provide solid proof that your spirit is free of the mark of sin when you give in to your flesh. I have already informed you of how it is a poor trade-off. You relieve one tension and add more. It is a no win situation, and when you are chalking up a further sin to your record, well, it's just not worth it.

 

[Calliso]

You provide solid proof that your spirit is free of the mark of sin when you give in to your flesh. I have already informed you of how it is a poor trade-off. You relieve one tension and add more. It is a no win situation, and when you are chalking up a further sin to your record, well, it's just not worth it.

All you did was give me a personal unsupported opinion. Though really much of this debate is really just about opinions when you think about it and that is ok just donlt assume yours is the only truth. Also it doesn;t add tension..trust me if it did I wouldn;t do it! Also you still have not shown that it is a sin. Just because YOU find it icky doesn;t mean it is sin.

 

[Floatingaxe]

All you did was give me a personal unsupported opinion. Though really much of this debate is really just about opinions when you think about it and that is ok just donlt assume yours is the only truth. Also it doesn;t add tension..trust me if it did I wouldn;t do it! Also you still have not shown that it is a sin. Just because YOU find it icky doesn;t mean it is sin.

You are right--it is all opinion. So, calm down, people!

The Holy Spirit is the one who reveals sin to a life who is sensitive to God. Not me. Sensitive followers of Christ get it. Desensitized believers don't.

 

[Digit]

I'm coming in on page 53 (wow) of this, but just to throw my two cents into the fray:

Is masturbation a sin? No. I don't believe it is. I feel that sins were talked about quite thoroughly in the Bible and masturbation was not even hinted at once. Onanism is a red-herring and has nothing to do with masturbation. Can masturbation be a sin, yes, just like eating can under some situations. Do I think masturbation is honoring or pleasing to God? No. But then many of the things we do are not. I feel some people wish to have polar opposites. It's either good and great and improves your life in many ways and futhers your relationship with God, or it's not and is sin. I don't feel this is the case, and whilst there are things which are desireable, I feel God too understands us as our Creator and as such whilst we should be desiring all the things which move us closer to Him, He has not omitted those which satisfy needs which are unimportant to Him.

Isaiah 55:9
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Theres my two cents. Eat it!

Digit

 

[Jedi]

I've been on both sides of this argument, and I have yet to take one side.

Not taken a side? Give me a break. You suggested that masturbation was “shameful,” done by people who “can’t face a healthy sexual relationship with another person,” asserting that the feelings of guilt you experience are what any “NORMAL person should have” (post 496). You are clearly condemning masturbation. But hey, it’s always fun to see someone backtrack.

Sounds like your trying to use me as a way to vent your own frustrations about it. You are acting out of ignorance, my friend

When someone says the things you have, it warrants such a response as mine. My only frustration is people condemning things out of fear or ignorance, which you very clearly presented yourself as doing in post 496. Or do you wish to retract (or “clarify&#8221 what you previously wrote?

If it's just about pleasure, then what are you accomplishing? Are you having that special experience with another person? Are you making a baby? If not, then what are you accomplishing? That's just my view of it.

Pleasure doesn’t have to have another purpose. That’s why it’s pleasure. What am I accomplishing by watching a good movie? By taking a nap in the middle of the day? Simple: I’m accomplishing utility: enjoyment, pleasure, feeling great. That is an end in itself worthy of accomplishment. On top of that, masturbation is also a means of stress relief, deterrent to sexual promiscuity, a means to further one’s knowledge of their own sexuality, etc. What are you accomplishing? Quite a bit.

That's what I'm trying to prove. What's the point? Other things bring pleasure. Why must you do this to bring pleasure?

Not pleasure like this. Reading a book or watching a movie might be enjoyable, but those don’t come close to the enjoyment of a powerful [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Why refrain if it feels good? That’s a better question.

No I didn't. Go back and read it. I have never even used the word "prostitution". Memory going? Going? Gone...

Oh, give me a break. You likened those that touch to someone who “has had many lovers, a promiscuous woman, because she knows what sex is like. Selfish and dumb” (post 345). So I guess you’re not likening people to prostitutes but something worse: someone who sleeps around for free. Split hairs all you want, it’s pathetic that you have to do so, never mind all the other insults you’re slinging at people. Forget those, did we?

With all the profuse and angry--even threatening arguing FOR the behaviour, you'd think that it WAS some of your lives!

And with all the vile condemnation spewing out of you, you’d think your entire life was anti-masturbation, hiding in a closet with a laptop rocking back and forth murmuring phrases about how terrible sexual pleasure is.

Jedi has made the same assumptions about me. This shouldn't be such a heated argument. Too many people are getting insulted.

Assumptions? Please, you clearly presented yourself one way, then took a 180 degree turn. I asked you a question: If it’s not fear, why do you refrain? I wouldn’t have asked you that question if I just assumed it, but thanks for the misrepresentation.

And at this point, I’m well beyond furious by the likes of floatingaxe’s putrid arrogance. I’m tired of people shaking their fingers at others out of ignorant piety, condemning them for being what God created them to be: sexual beings. And what’s worse, when such people are asked why they condemn others, they can’t give a single bloody reason that stands up to the heat of scrutiny. Ignorant piety indeed. It’s personal here and by my blood I will not stand by while people point their boney fingers at others for being honest and open about the most hush-hush issue in the church: sexuality.

You provide solid proof that your spirit is free of the mark of sin when you give in to your flesh.

For the love of dairy products, do you read nothing I tell you? Any act is morally innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. The burden of proof, then, is on YOU, the prosecution, to show why people should refrain from masturbation in all circumstances. Bring it.

It is a no win situation, and when you are chalking up a further sin to your record, well, it's just not worth it.

Yeah, well, it’s not a sin. If you disagree, please show otherwise. Show me where masturbation is classified as inherently “lustful,” “of the flesh,” or “lacking in self-control.” You have miserably failed to do so and I grow tired of your babble in a futile attempt to avoid the question.

The Holy Spirit is the one who reveals sin to a life who is sensitive to God. Not me. Sensitive followers of Christ get it. Desensitized believers don't.

And sensitive followers can back up their prosecution of some allegedly sinful activity. Pretenders, those who mistake their own ideas for God’s, don’t.

 

[Digit]

Be nice to Floating Axe, she's a goodie. She's just standing up for what she believes in and you aren't forced to accept it.

Sometimes things get heated in forums, but we are all on the same side.

Cheers,
Digit

 

[Gamezilla]

Jedi, you have done nothing but ignorantly bash me this whole time. You assumed that I was condemning masturbation because I spoke of my own opinion on the issue. It's the same as someone listening to another type of music than someone else! It's all personal preference. You assumed that I was fearful of it because I have experienced masturbation and I didn't like it. The way I see it, it's not the same. There is no love. Love is the key to sex, and without it, God's gift is just being taken for granted. I'm sorry that you don't agree with my statements. It might seem that I'm condemning it, but that's because of the experience I had with it. Have I tried it a second time? Sure I have! Did it go anywhere? No, because I began to think of how stupid it was for me to sit in private and try to stimulate myself without having that loving experience with another person. I don't know why you can't understand this and except my opinion! Does it offend you that I don't give in to what you give in to? If you think it's fine to touch, then that's cool with me! If that's something you want to do, then by all means do it! Just don't try and drag me into doing it with excuses like "It relieves stress!" and "It's healthy!". If masturbation was a have-to-do thing, then don't you think I would realize that I HAD to do it? It is a personal decision for me not to do it, and I don't know why you must ridicule me for it. I never said "Your evil for masturbating!", and I won't say that.

 

[Gamezilla]

Be nice to Floating Axe, she's a goodie. She's just standing up for what she believes in and you aren't forced to accept it.

Sometimes things get heated in forums, but we are all on the same side.

Cheers,
Digit

Yea, it's sad that Christians must hate each other over a stupid subject like this than stand beside each other.

 

[Gamezilla]

I would rather gargle molten lead than stand next to the likes of her. I've had far too many run-ins with people like her to know better than to ever allow myself to be chained to one in some sort of alliance. Such suppressors of human sexuality suffocate the very freedom I hold dear - the very freedom that is ours by right. The more she points her self-righteous finger at me, the more I want to break it off.

Wow, you seem like a extremely violent person. You need to learn how to accept others opinions and go on, Jedi. There is no reason a thread like this should separate Christians. Too much of this crap is what's wrong with our churches these days! We let petty things get in front of our walk with God, and then people get mad.

 

[Jedi]

Jedi, you have done nothing but ignorantly bash me this whole time.

I asked you questions – you made it personal.

You assumed that I was condemning masturbation because I spoke of my own opinion on the issue.

And what is your opinion of the issue? That it’s sinful, perhaps? Then you have condemned masturbation, even if the only basis you have to do so is your own fickle opinion.

It's the same as someone listening to another type of music than someone else!

Not by your descriptions, suggesting those who disagree with you and participate in the thing you dislike are “shameful” among other negative descriptions. You presented it as something far more important than a mere fancy in preference.

No, because I began to think of how stupid it was for me to sit in private and try to stimulate myself without having that loving experience with another person.

So those who do this are… stupid? Again, your words, suggesting this is not merely a matter of preference to you.

Just don't try and drag me into doing it with excuses like "It relieves stress!" and "It's healthy!".

I’m not trying to drag you anywhere – I’m merely pointing out the redeeming aspects of masturbation; aspects some people don’t want to consider. Don’t want to take part in these positive aspects? Fine by me.

If masturbation was a have-to-do thing, then don't you think I would realize that I HAD to do it? It is a personal decision for me not to do it, and I don't know why you must ridicule me for it.

No one has ever presented masturbation as a “have-to-do thing,” only that it is a “permissible-to-do thing.” I shot back at you for describing those who do it as shameful or unable to have healthy sexual relations with other people. Those are accusations worthy of a defense – don’t be shocked when one is given.

Yea, it's sad that Christians must hate each other over a stupid subject like this than stand beside each other.

When someone wants to stand there pointing her condemning finger at others in an effort to make them feel guilty for being what they are (sexual beings), it is cause for rebellion. I will not allow such people to throw chains of guilt on people for enjoying what is theirs by right.

Wow, you seem like a extremely violent person. You need to learn how to accept others opinions and go on, Jedi. There is no reason a thread like this should separate Christians. Too much of this crap is what's wrong with our churches these days! We let petty things get in front of our walk with God, and then people get mad.

This divide, friend, was not drawn by me or other free men and women. It was drawn by the hostile piety condemning masturbation as sinful, likening those who do it to promiscuis people, accusing them of being selfish and dumb, incapable of distinguishing between the voice of God and Satan, and more. Divide? Oh, yes, there's a divide and its cause was the aggression of the prosecution in this matter.

 

[daniel777]

Pleasure doesn’t have to have another purpose. That’s why it’s pleasure. What am I accomplishing by watching a good movie? By taking a nap in the middle of the day? Simple: I’m accomplishing utility: enjoyment, pleasure, feeling great. That is an end in itself worthy of accomplishment. On top of that, masturbation is also a means of stress relief, deterrent to sexual promiscuity, a means to further one’s knowledge of their own sexuality, etc. What are you accomplishing? Quite a bit.

pleasure doesn't need a purpose? are you sure about that? let me ask you a question: is pleasure good? how can pleasure be good if it's void of meaning? are you saying that pleasure was created for the sake of pleasure? NO all things are by Him and for Him.
do you think masturbation (with or without lust) glorifies the Father. or is it "sinning against your own flesh". why do you see the need to defend masturbation? even if it isn't a sin, don't you think you should stop for the sake of the rest of us, and so we don't look MORE hypocritical to the world?
taking a nap is a physical necesity; whether the movie is good or bad depends on the purpose you practically apply as a reason for watching it. for what purpose are you masturbating (if you are; this discussion personally makes me sick. . . ). who are you serving? Pleasure?
or is this what paul was refering to when he said it would be better to mary than to burn with passion.

one more question: if you wanted to, could you quit? if not it's an obsession. masturbation is, by its nature, highly obsessive both spiritually and scientifically.

Though really much of this debate is really just about opinions when you think about it and that is ok just donlt assume yours is the only truth

i was honestly unaware this was a debate.

You have miserably failed to do so and I grow tired of your babble in a futile attempt to avoid the question.

sir, chill. and no, you don't grow tired of any babble, you're still here aren't you. are you always this arrogant acting while "defending" the truth?

 

[daniel777]

I would rather gargle molten lead than stand next to the likes of her. I've had far too many run-ins with people like her to know better than to ever allow myself to be chained to one in some sort of alliance. Such suppressors of human sexuality suffocate the very freedom I hold dear - the very freedom that is ours by right. The more she points her self-righteous finger at me, the more I want to break it off.

how christlike.

actually the self rightious aren't the ones that follow the law as a sacrifice to God and because they love christ. the selfrightious are those who parade around their own goodness and in the process destroy God's law; since the law and God are tech. the same they also create idols for themselves in the process, and place them in the place of God.

 

[Gamezilla]

I asked you questions – you made it personal.



And what is your opinion of the issue? That it’s sinful, perhaps? Then you have condemned masturbation, even if the only basis you have to do so is your own fickle opinion.



Not by your descriptions, suggesting those who disagree with you and participate in the thing you dislike are “shameful” among other negative descriptions. You presented it as something far more important than a mere fancy in preference.



So those who do this are… stupid? Again, your words, suggesting this is not merely a matter of preference to you.



I’m not trying to drag you anywhere – I’m merely pointing out the redeeming aspects of masturbation; aspects some people don’t want to consider. Don’t want to take part in these positive aspects? Fine by me.



No one has ever presented masturbation as a “have-to-do thing,” only that it is a “permissible-to-do thing.” I shot back at you for describing those who do it as shameful or unable to have healthy sexual relations with other people. Those are accusations worthy of a defense – don’t be shocked when one is given.



When someone wants to stand there pointing her condemning finger at others in an effort to make them feel guilty for being what they are (sexual beings), it is cause for rebellion. I will not allow such people to throw chains of guilt on people for enjoying what is theirs by right.



This divide, friend, was not drawn by me or other free men and women. It was drawn by the hostile piety condemning masturbation as sinful, likening those who do it to promiscuis people, accusing them of being selfish and dumb, incapable of distinguishing between the voice of God and Satan, and more. Divide? Oh, yes, there's a divide and its cause was the aggression of the prosecution in this matter.

I never said anyone here was shameful for doing so. Those were my own feelings on the matter, man. I guess that people cannot have a different opinion from yours in this thread, huh? I can't say that it felt shameful to me? You mean I can't say that without you getting upset? You are the one who made this personal, man. I don't know how I ever did. I have only posted my thoughts on the matter. I never called any names, and I've tried not to insult others (unlike you). You also failed to respond to one thing I said in one of your many quotes up there. "Love is the key to sex, and without it, God's gift is just being taken for granted.". Seems like you responded to everything else, but this. I was really hoping you wouldn't avoid this. I have yet to point fingers at anyone, because if I did it would be at myself! I have suffered with the same thing, man. This whole debate has become about you. Your getting upset that others aren't doing what you love to do. Whatever, man. Like I said earlier, if you want to touch, fine with me! Just don't try and drag me along with you like are still trying to do by saying I'm just a big meanie who doesn't have his facts straight!

 

[Gamezilla]

how christlike.

actually the self rightious aren't the ones that follow the law as a sacrifice to God and because they love christ. the selfrightious are those who parade around their own goodness and in the process destroy God's law; since the law and God are tech. the same they also create idols for themselves in the process, and place them in the place of God.

Amen to this post!

 

[Floatingaxe]

When someone wants to stand there pointing her condemning finger at others in an effort to make them feel guilty for being what they are (sexual beings), it is cause for rebellion. I will not allow such people to throw chains of guilt on people for enjoying what is theirs by right.

It's not my job to cause guilt. So cut that nonsense. A 23-year-old who talks like you do, claiming it is a right to self-pleasure in the sight of God and all that is holy, is just acting like a child, and yes, you are correct---is in rebellion.

You don't like my opinion? So what?

But to venomously talk about a woman who is old enough to be your mother is totally disrespectful. Does your mama know what you do? Does she do your laundry--or do you have to hide your enjoyable right?

Come on, youngster.

 

[Gukkor]

I agree with you. Jedi has made the same assumptions about me. This shouldn't be such a heated argument. Too many people are getting insulted.

I very much agree. This debate has taken a very ugly turn (well, uglier than it was originally), one I don't particularly care for.

I don't care which side started this sickening hostility, I just want it gone.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I very much agree. This debate has taken a very ugly turn (well, uglier than it was originally), one I don't particularly care for.

I don't care which side started this sickening hostility, I just want it gone.

You are right. This thread has run its nasty course, just as the others have. It should be closed for good.