What do you see masturbating as? Sin? Sorry about all the topics you must have!

[Kaonashi]

The Holy Spirit has never convicted me of masturbation being a sin so it's not a sin.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The Holy Spirit has never convicted me of masturbation being a sin so it's not a sin.

If you belong to Jesus Christ, He has and does. If you ignore His voice long enough, He will leave you to your sin. You can choke the Holy Spirit off with repetitive and willful sinning. It's called grieving the Holy Spirit.

You can take that to the bank.

 

[Dannager]

Well, I consider masturbation to be a corruption of sex because it involves one person, not two.

But why do you view this as corruption, and not simply self-pleasure? There is no biblical reason to see it as corruption just because it doesn't involve two people. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that absolutely all sexual activity must be done with a partner or else. That mentality is a byproduct of your environment, either in how you were raised or how you were exposed to faith.

People never feel sexual desire for themselves, certainly that would be very odd and unnatural...

Actually, some do. Sexual narcissism does exist. But you're right, it is rather odd and it could certainly be considered a mental illness. But that's not what masturbation is about.

so let's say a man is attracted to a woman. If they are married, then sex would be the normal response to this. But if they are not married, and the man masturbates when he is thinking of her, then isn't he just giving in to lust?

No. You're making the rather common mistake of thinking that the modern usage of the word "lust" is the same as the word used in your translation of the Bible. The concept of lust in biblical times referred to an actual desire to have sexual relations with a person, as opposed to a simple fantasy. Sexual desire is not lust. You should have sexual desire towards members of the opposite sex. That's healthy. If you don't have some sort of sexual desire towards the person you end up eventually marrying, you're probably going to have a rather lackluster marriage. Don't confuse sexual attraction and fantasizing with the sort of lust warned against in the Bible.

And didn't Jesus say: "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart".

This warns against those who commonly would actually act on lust. In biblical times there were no billboard models, internet porn stars or television actors to fantasize about. Every target of fantasy was someone close at hand, and this unfortunately meant that men would commonly take advantage of their proximity to objects of attraction and exploit them. The passage you refer to was designed to stave that sort of behavior off. Unfortunately people have twisted its original meaning to support their puritanical view towards sexuality. Fortunately that sort of viewpoint received limited acceptance, but it still persists and I believe you may be a victim of it.

I don't know, maybe some people touch for reasons other than lust. I don't know what those reasons might be, but in that case, it might not be a sin for them. But if lust is involved, it sure sounds like a sin.

This is the problem with not engaging (or being taught) in a proper contextual analysis of the Bible. Reading it at face value allows for all sorts of odd conclusions that contradict the intention of the text.

Well, I can't pretend to be perfectly righteous,

Heh, neither can I.

I wasn't raised to think that masturbation is a sin, so I guess that maybe I have a faulty interpretation of scripture

If you weren't raised that way then it was through your exposure to faith that this viewpoint came about. It's usually one of those two things. And yes, unfortunately the way you were exposed to faith was through a faulty interpretation of scripture. Them's the breaks, I suppose. It's wonderful that you've found God, the trick is to take your faith and refine it until you've reached a more perfect understanding of the world and God's hand in it.

...who knows...Honestly though I feel that it's a sin because it comes from/leads to lust (the proper response to lust is sex within marriage).

Let me explain why this isn't true. You refer to lust here as sexual desire. Everyone has sexual desire at nearly all stages of their life (save childhood). Teenagers have it. Adults have it. Married couples have it. Even seniors have it. The problem is that marriage isn't something that we jump right into at puberty (granted, we used to way back in the day). What ends up happening is that from puberty until marriage there is this span of years where sexual desire keeps cropping up with no outlet (this is, of course, assuming you're of the camp that decides to wait for marriage to have sex). If sex within marriage is the only proper response to sexual desire, what are people to do in the meantime? Masturbation comprises a healthy, natural release of sexual tension and anxiety for that interim period (and even during marriage, sometimes).

I don't know if this is true, but I'll assume it is for now.

I'd be happy to provide you with the research on it. Of recent note is that Dr. Dobson of Focus on the Family, one of the most prominent conservative Christians out there, has taken the position that masturbation is acceptable and healthy. Granted, I agree with him on almost nothing else, but it's good to see people moving away from that restricted mindset.

But didn't Jesus say that we should be prepared to make sacrifices for Him?

Yes, but I think Christ had more significant things in mind than giving up masturbation. Making sacrifices would be things like giving your time to the needy, standing up for what is right in the face of tyranny, or defending your fellow man from harm. Those are noble pursuits.

"And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." I guess my response to this is: if masturbation causes someone to sin (for example, to lust), then it's better for them to stop doing it. Healthy or not. If somehow, a person is able to do it without feeling lust, then they should examine their reasons for doing it... for example, if they do it because of stress, maybe they should try turning to God instead? That's really up to them and between them and God.

Again, this problem eliminates itself when you understand that the lust referred to is not sexual desire, attraction or fantasy.

But does it harm the person doing it?

Nope.

Does it harm their relationship with God?

It hasn't harmed mine, nor any other Christian I've spoken to who didn't see any problem with masturbation.

I don't know. If they become addicted,

Using the addiction argument against masturbation really isn't worthwhile. People get addicted to food, internet usage and hundreds of other innocuous things. That doesn't mean that we should stop eating, or stop using the internet entirely. It means that moderation is healthy, and knowing your limits is a good idea.

if they feel lust, if it leads them to sin, then it harms them. Sin leads to death...

I'm of the opinion that those who feel it leads them to sin probably have a misunderstanding of the concept somewhere along the line that would cause them to think such a thing.

by whom? By the Bible? Well, that's fair enough...although the Bible doesn't really give us a list of rules to live by. It's a spiritual book that's meant to be read spiritually.

I agree completely. I think that the messages of the Bible are much broader in scope and intent than the minor legalistic quibbles that modern fundamentalists tend to raise. When you look at the warning against lust differently - not as a prohibition against sexual desire, but as a warning against a mindset that could cause you to harm your neighbor - it suddenly begins to form a divinely coherent theology.

True but He does intend to make us perfect. Of course He still loves us as we are

Perfection is something we all strive for, but it is perhaps the only thing that humanity will truly never accomplish. There are so many powerful urgings in the Bible, clarion calls to make the world a better place, and we've barely scratched the surface of the change we can make. When we've dealt with some of the bigger issues like poverty, injustice and hunger, then perhaps God will impart upon humanity a new mission to make itself more perfect.

That's a good point. hmm... I guess I'll say this: if masturbation causes someone to sin, or if they become addicted to it, then they're putting their soul in danger and should stop.

I agree. The same holds true with any activity. If eating causes you to become addicted, seek help. If using the internet causes you to consider blasphemy, it's time to reflect on your faith.

But there are many stories of people who are addicted to it, so I must conclude that it's easy to get addicted to. That's dangerous.

Take a minute to think critically about that - why have you heard so many stories of people who have gotten addicted? It's not tobacco or alcohol. It's not meth or cocaine. It doesn't ruin people's entire lives to the enormous degree that substance abuse constantly does, and yet it seems to get a lot of attention.

Consider that it may be because you have been exposed to a faith community that demonizes masturbation, to the point where people can be very self-conscious about it and can panic at the thought of addiction (even if they aren't addicted). Furthermore, the desire of the faith community to demonize masturbation means that they will publicize stories of masturbation addiction in order to impress upon others the importance of stopping.

In reality, addiction to masturbation really is not that dangerous or widespread. Nation-wide surveys constantly conclude that 98+% of men and 90%+ of women touch with some frequency. Think about what it would be like if 98+% of men smoked cigarettes. Imagine the problem with addiction our nation would have then! And that's something that actually causes serious physical harm. Masturbation is probably much less addictive than food. Most health professionals classify addiction as a problem when it begins to affect your normal functioning. When you start to regularly miss scheduled appointments, skip meals or begin failing in work or school because of an addiction, that's a problem. Masturbation very rarely results in any of these things.

If you do not feel convicted that it's wrong, then maybe you're in not much danger from it. But if someone does feel that it's wrong, then maybe the Holy Spirit is warning them.

Yes, maybe. Or maybe they have a societally-induced sense of guilt associated with it, through their upbringing or their exposure to faith. Imagine that you had been raised in a community where you were told, all your life, that eating strawberries would cause your soul to be placed in moral peril! Or imagine that you suddenly converted to the Christian faith, and partway through your enamored fascination with religion you were told that strawberries are a tool of Satan, and that there is a verse in scripture to back it up! In either of these situations you would probably begin avoiding strawberries, and would likely not think to question whether or not you were doing it for a good reason.

Not sure about this...then murder is normal, cause it's witnessed in all cultures and in all times.

You're right, murder is normal for societies. It is something that humanity has to deal with constantly. Just because something is normal doesn't make it right, as you've very aptly pointed out.

Of course I'm not comparing this to murder, lol

Hehe, yes, I understand.

 

[Floatingaxe]

My, if that isn't ever an unfortunate spelling error.

I don't make a habit of spelling errors. That wasn't one.

 

[Gukkor]

If you belong to Jesus Christ, He has and does. If you ignore His voice long enough, He will leave you to your sin. You can choke the Holy Spirit off with repetitive and willful sinning. It's called grieving the Holy Spirit.

You can take that to the bank.

My apologies, but I do believe you are overstepping your bounds when you start telling people what God has and hasn't convicted them of.

 

[Floatingaxe]

My apologies, but I do believe you are overstepping your bounds when you start telling people what God has and hasn't convicted them of.

If this person is a Christian, the Holy Spirit convicts of the sin of such behaviour. He is perfect and always does what He is supposed to.

It's human beings that don't do what they are supposed to--such as listen to Him and obey. Disobey enough times and you quench Him. He will leave a disobedient person to their sin. It's a long way to fall from God's grace.

God is a gentleman. He isn't going to force you off the throne of your life if you want to be there.

 

[Dannager]

I don't make a habit of spelling errors. That wasn't one.

Ah, good. Just making sure.

 

[Dannager]

If this person is a Christian, the Holy Spirit convicts of the sin of such behaviour. He is perfect and always does what He is supposed to.

"She's making a list, checking it twice!
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice"

 

[Floatingaxe]

"She's making a list, checking it twice!
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice"

Are you born again, Dannager? do you know Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and Lord? Do you follow after Jesus in all you do? Have you given Him your life?

Do you read the Word of God and belong to a body of believers in your city? Do you worship Jesus Christ? Do you talk with God regularly?

Has knowing Jesus Christ changed your life? Has he helped you overcome hard things in your life? Does He bless you richly with His favour?

I sincerely wish top know, for I do not understand why someone who purports to be a follower of Jesus Christ so venomously denigrates other followers of Jesus Christ. It's impossible.

 

[Dannager]

Are you born again, Dannager? do you know Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and Lord? Do you follow after Jesus in all you do? Have you given Him your life?

Do you read the Word of God and belong to a body of believers in your city? Do you worship Jesus Christ? Do you talk with God regularly?

Has knowing Jesus Christ changed your life? Has he helped you overcome hard things in your life? Does He bless you richly with His favour?

Yes.

I sincerely wish top know, for I do not understand why someone who purports to be a follower of Jesus Christ so venomously denigrates other followers of Jesus Christ. It's impossible.

When you stop responding to thoughtful posts with pictures of donkeys and creative misspellings of the word "asinine", you can start talking of others' denigration. Until then, get the plank out of your own eye.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yes.

When you stop responding to thoughtful posts with pictures of donkeys and creative misspellings of the word "asinine", you can start talking of others' denigration. Until then, get the plank out of your own eye.

Ahem! I do admit to a spelling mistake! I can't believe it! That was an honest one.

It was a horse!

 

[Dannager]

It was a horse!

Fair enough. I admit, I did not glance at it for long.

 

[dayhiker]

That is a deception. You cannot separate the two.

Hi Floatingaxe,
If you look up the Greek work that is transalted lust in Mat.5 you will find that it is used 16x in the NT. Included in that list is Jesus lusting and the good angels lusting. I find that lust is used in a good sense 9 of the 16 times.
3 of the 16x this Greek work is used by Paul and translated covet and refers to the 10th commandment to not covet our neighbors wife, maidservant or property.
Since Mat.5 Jesus is talking about adultry in the contest that lust is used, I understand Jesus is saying we shouldn't covet another man's wife. If a person is coveting another man's wife while masturbating I'd say they are sinning or at least desiring to sin.
Therefore, I find what Jedi is saying is very close to what Jesus is saying. I find that others that can't find a scripture that says masturbation is a sin are adding to God's Word. I find this is the sin that is often happening. This is why Jesus confronted the Pharisees so often, because they had taken God's work and sound a way to make long lists of normal activites a sin. I find this really sad personal.

dayhiker

 

[SpiritDriven]

Well. As I am sure you all must have heard a lot about this...

masturbating


What do you guys think about this?

Theres so so so many people that do it...

Here are somethings people have said:

What do you guys think about it? I am catholic.​

Well if masturbating IS a sin.​

What will happen to you if you do it? Will your life be very bad?​

Will someone very close to me split up, if I do masturbating?​

Thanks for any help.​

Please excuse me for laughing........ when I read your post.
My Freind, your right standing with God is not because of what you do or do not do....

Your right standing before God is because of the actions and deeds of Jesus Christ on your behalf on the Cross.....and for no other reason.

Weather you touch....
1. 10 times a day
2. once per day
3 not at all

Do not expect anybody to believe option 3, and remember, your right standing with God will never come about via anything you do...or do not do.


Grace and Peace to you....always!

PS Will someone very close to me split up, if I do masturbating?

I doubt anybody would believe that she observes option 3 either (lol)

 

[dayhiker]

Amen, Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness for He is our rightousness.

 

[holo]

No, I am not. It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict of sin.

Yes, but you insist on doing the Spirit's job all the time. And you're not trying to convict of sin. You're accusing and laying blame and offending and belittling people who don't share your views. I don't see as much as a speck of the Spirit in what you do. You're taking the Lord's name in vain.

 

[holo]

That is a deception. You cannot separate the two.

Not separating lust and masturbation is like saying love and sex is the same thing.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Hi Floatingaxe,
If you look up the Greek work that is transalted lust in Mat.5 you will find that it is used 16x in the NT. Included in that list is Jesus lusting and the good angels lusting. I find that lust is used in a good sense 9 of the 16 times.
3 of the 16x this Greek work is used by Paul and translated covet and refers to the 10th commandment to not covet our neighbors wife, maidservant or property.
Since Mat.5 Jesus is talking about adultry in the contest that lust is used, I understand Jesus is saying we shouldn't covet another man's wife. If a person is coveting another man's wife while masturbating I'd say they are sinning or at least desiring to sin.
Therefore, I find what Jedi is saying is very close to what Jesus is saying. I find that others that can't find a scripture that says masturbation is a sin are adding to God's Word. I find this is the sin that is often happening. This is why Jesus confronted the Pharisees so often, because they had taken God's work and sound a way to make long lists of normal activites a sin. I find this really sad personal.

dayhiker

I believe you are very wrong. We are to take our thoughts captive. A man cannot touch without a thought in mind. They lie who say that they can do it without thinking.

They misunderstand their own physiology!


Think about it!

 

[Jedi]

I believe you are very wrong. We are to take our thoughts captive. A man cannot touch without a thought in mind. They lie who say that they can do it without thinking.

But where are you getting the idea that thinking sexual thoughts is inherently bad? If no one thought sexual thoughts outside of marriage, there would be no desire for sex at all, as they would have never conceived of such thoughts to desire them. If so, everyone in the world would stay mere friends, as they would have no desire for anything more. If so, the entire human race would fade out of existence due to lack of procreation. Do you mean to say this is God's will for humanity?

 

[dayhiker]

I believe you are very wrong. We are to take our thoughts captive. A man cannot touch without a thought in mind. They lie who say that they can do it without thinking.

They misunderstand their own physiology!


Think about it!

Hi Floating,
I know there are a lot of people and many Christains that would agree with you. I've read Christian material on sexual topics for 40 years. I've meditated on what the scriptures mean day and night for 40 years as well. Its one of the great joys of my life.
So what I'm reading the last few years is a push by some Christians to say that men should be asexual till they are in bed with their wife. But my view of God's word is that God created us as sexual beings. Just as God created us physical beings. Not to dimish that we are spiritual beings. So God saw our creation and saw that we are good, ya very good. Our sexuality is very good. Now how we use that sexuality is important. But being sexual and thinking about sex I don't see as a sin. But thinking about commiting adultery is a sin. Being sexually aroused isn't a sin. It happens all the time to guys, especially when younger, when no thought is even put into it. God created us so that we dream about sex. If we don't have sex for a period of time, we even dream about sex to the point where we have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Now in my book a wet dream is the same as masturbating.
yes, I know some think that an ascetic view of Christianity is the highest form of serving Christ. To them I say go for it. Personally, ever time I've started to make those rules in my Christian life I loss the joy of the Lord, sin starts to creep into my life and the world becomes very attractive. This has happened 3 times in my life. Paul said we are free from the bondage of these laws. So I plan to live in the freedom of Christ. The joy of the Lord is my strength.

Your welcome to point out where my view of lust in Mat.5 was wrong. I noticed you just said you believe I'm very wrong. But what I say is faith that I have in my heart from meditating on these very verses. Any inside you have into these verse I'd be glad to read.
dayhiker