What do you see masturbating as? Sin? Sorry about all the topics you must have!

[holo]

It is self-denial.

No. The opposite of selfishness is charity. Muslims have plenty of self-denial, that doesn't mean they're not selfish. In fact, self-denial (as in "touch not, eat not") only satisfies the flesh.

Take up your cross and follow Jesus, man.

And taking up the cross=not masturbating?

You do without! Do something more beneficial with your God-given free time! Sheesh!

Um, OK. Tell me, du you ever drink tea or go for a walk or just sit and relax for a bit?

 

[BloodwashedPilgrim]

Indeed. Which is where I advised against listening to religious peer pressure and I'am one to agree with you here.

An excellent quote by the way, so why is it your so cautious about what I said? According to you, where on exactly the same page.



It is not impossible and lust is infact sometimes very different given a different of context. Investigate it and report your findings. Don't worry -- if you continue to choose as you will, it is not something I will condemn of a brother. It will only mean that explicity, you chose to know.



When we ate from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, we immediately had gained the overall concepts behind good and evil, choice and submission.

Because it is a mans choice to touch or not, the act itself is often salvaged up as being an addicting act but I beg to differ. Everytime that I have, it was a choice. "You choose your addiction", as those DARE Counselors say.



Is'int hunger a natural desire? Lust is'int natural but it is created from something called sexual frusteration or repression.

These, are the truths from behind the fruit that tempted us. Good or Evil, is up for you to interpret.

I do not believe that masturbation is a way to achieve either our sanctification or His glorification, and thus believe it to be sinful (As I showed all my Scriptural evidence for in my prior post in this forum). Unless I misunderstood you, which is very possible, I understood you to be condoning masturbation, which is something I don't feel I can do when approached in the context of Scripture and God's character. It seems we agree on much though, and I can assure you that this is a rather petty matter which could never break up the bond of brothers seated in Christ's body. The reason for my caution was simply an inability to feel as though I had properly grasped all your thoughts. As I stated earlier, I honestly did not mean to be antagonistic, I was just seeking a more clear understanding.

Much love in Christ.

 

[Abufihamat]

I do not believe that masturbation is a way to achieve either our sanctification or His glorification, and thus believe it to be sinful (As I showed all my Scriptural evidence for in my prior post in this forum).

But, as the preacher would interept, so am I allowed?

Unless I misunderstood you, which is very possible, I understood you to be condoning masturbation, which is something I don't feel I can do when approached in the context of Scripture and God's character.

In the context of the scripture and God's character, I feel that I can. Let them see us both -- as diplomats with different policies. They'll read -- they'll choose. They might choose you, or they might choose me.

But for whatever its worth, they're still choosing God.

As I stated earlier, I honestly did not mean to be antagonistic, I was just seeking a more clear understanding.

It's no problem -- you've provided us with the gift of another persons insight. I welcome that, thank you.

 

[bliz]

Blodwashed -

Where to begin???

First, if someone believes that masturbation is a sin, then by all means, they should not touch. If anyone is unsure - don't! I am not out to recruit.

Second - self-gratification. Please, imagine with me a life with no "self-gratification". When you go out to eat, you will, of course, select food items that you dislike. Eating a food that you know you like would obviously be
pleasing to the flesh and totally unecessary and wrong. The nutritional value of food you dislike is just as good, if not better, than food you like. There is simply no need for particular foods.

I trust that you (and anyone else), if married, makes no attempt to enjoy their sexual relations with their spouse. That would certainly be wrong because that indeed wouldf be "self-gratification".

A brisk walk in the morning when the sun is just up? Sounds like self-gratification to me! A favoritre dessert? Shame, shame! A hot shower? Cold will get us just as clean.

Putting our pleasures, great and small, ahead of everything and everyone else, especially God's rules for us, is obviously wrong and will bring us misery not the pleasure we seek.

But that does not mean we are to live pleasureless lives. God describes heaven as a banquet - a feast! Hardly an experience without enjoyment.

Third - I fail to see how enjoyment of God's creation within the boundries He has set is sinful. My husband and I have often praised God during sexual relations. I can imagine someone masturbating doing the same thing.

I have no argument with all the verses you quoted admonishing us to flee sin and not yield to the flesh. But without the sins listed or defined, we are clearly speculating about exactly what activities God had in mind.

 

[Floatingaxe]

No. The opposite of selfishness is charity. Muslims have plenty of self-denial, that doesn't mean they're not selfish. In fact, self-denial (as in "touch not, eat not") only satisfies the flesh.

And taking up the cross=not masturbating?

Um, OK. Tell me, du you ever drink tea or go for a walk or just sit and relax for a bit?

The opposite of self-serving is also self-denial. Charity is also self-denial when you give it some proper thought!
Taking up your cross is following after God fully, in obedience, denying one's own selfish desires, which includes the filth of masturbation. ( It is an assinine to compare it with drinking tea, holo...don't make me laugh...actually I feel sickened by that.)

Taking repose is a normal need, and we need to also do that in a God-honouring way. Everything is the Lord's--even our rest. If you has a spiritual leader or mentor, you would be properly instructed in these things. you need discipling in righteousness BADLY! Ypu don;t make up the Christian walk as you go. There is clear instruction in holy living in the Word of God. Read it, obey it and please God. If you really know and love Him.

 

[Dannager]

The opposite of self-serving is also self-denial. Charity is also self-denial when you give it some proper thought!
Taking up your cross is following after God fully, in obedience, denying one's own selfish desires, which includes the filth of masturbation. ( It is an assinine to compare it with drinking tea, holo...don't make me laugh...actually I feel sickened by that.)

Why is it asinine? Do you have a reason, or does the thought of not having one simply make you uncomfortable?

 

[Dannager]

Although its never mentioned in the bible, I do believe it is a sin, because:
1) its near impossible not to lust while doing it. I've tried to go that route, but it fails

Repeat after me, everyone.

Biblical lust and the modern day concept of lust are not the same.

 

[GoodNewsJim]

Here is something serious to think about. This is not something I want you to take lightly. God wants me to talk deeply about this stuff, but I'm only going to go where I feel safe because I don't want to speak for God. God can really speak to your heart if you give him yours in prayer.

First off: porn is wrong, and can lead you down a slope of deeper and deeper sin.

Yet, if you avoid the porn, and instead pray to God about your sexuality, you may get an answer.

The two main prayers that I prayed at first were:
Hannah's prayer that if I have a kid, I'll dedicate him/her to the Lord. I went one step further and said all my kids will be for the Lord. I want God to know that I want Children.

Secondly, I prayed for the blessing of Abraham, that I'd be blessed with many descendends like him. In the Bible it says that many men will pray this prayer. I believe it is pleasing to God.

Past these two prayers, you can get creative by describing the type of person you'd want to be married to.

God has been extremely gracious to me because I go to him about my concerns instead of trying to figure it out for myself. Pray to God for answers, he'll give them.

 

[Dannager]

First off: porn is wrong, and can lead you down a slope of deeper and deeper sin.

And on which grounds do you make these claims?

 

[Floatingaxe]

Why is it asinine? Do you have a reason, or does the thought of not having one simply make you uncomfortable?

Holy people do not commit filthy acts on themselves, and if they do, they have remorse and repent. They don't defend it, because they have appropriate shame before the Holy God they love and serve.

Duh!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Here is something serious to think about. This is not something I want you to take lightly. God wants me to talk deeply about this stuff, but I'm only going to go where I feel safe because I don't want to speak for God. God can really speak to your heart if you give him yours in prayer.

First off: porn is wrong, and can lead you down a slope of deeper and deeper sin.

Yet, if you avoid the porn, and instead pray to God about your sexuality, you may get an answer.

The two main prayers that I prayed at first were:
Hannah's prayer that if I have a kid, I'll dedicate him/her to the Lord. I went one step further and said all my kids will be for the Lord. I want God to know that I want Children.

Secondly, I prayed for the blessing of Abraham, that I'd be blessed with many descendends like him. In the Bible it says that many men will pray this prayer. I believe it is pleasing to God.

Past these two prayers, you can get creative by describing the type of person you'd want to be married to.

God has been extremely gracious to me because I go to him about my concerns instead of trying to figure it out for myself. Pray to God for answers, he'll give them.

Excellent post! I can see that you have an intimate relationship with our Father! God bless you!

 

[Dannager]

Holy people do not commit filthy acts on themselves, and if they do, they have remorse and repent. They don't defend it, because they have appropriate shame before the Holy God they love and serve.

Duh!

It's not filthy. That's just how you were raised. Anything else?

 

[Varik]

I'll say its sure better than going out and having pre-marital sex with a chance of getting someone pregnant or getting STD's. At least it cant hurt you.

As far as it being a sin I believe it to be more taboo than sin.

 

[Dannager]

Excellent post! I can see that you have an intimate relationship with our Father! God bless you!

No, he just agrees with you. Aside from that you have no idea what his relationship with God is like. I'm not calling it into question, but judging him to be intimately close to God with nothing but his statement on masturbation is nonsense. Unfortunately, one's relationship with God isn't defined by how closely their views match your own. To believe as you do is the height of arrogance.

 

[Floatingaxe]

It's not filthy. That's just how you were raised. Anything else?

Hahah! No. It's filthy.

 

[Dannager]

Hahah! No. It's filthy.

Based on...?

It's not spiritually wrong, morally wrong or physically wrong. It has health benefits on both an emotional and physiological level. It is useful in the sense that it allows you to understand your body better and what you enjoy. It is observed in animals and infants.

The only thing it has against it is your closely-held religious beliefs.

You're arguing with reality, Floatingaxe. Reality tends not to lose.

 

[Floatingaxe]

No, he just agrees with you. Aside from that you have no idea what his relationship with God is like. I'm not calling it into question, but judging him to be intimately close to God with nothing but his statement on masturbation is nonsense. Unfortunately, one's relationship with God isn't defined by how closely their views match your own. To believe as you do is the height of arrogance.

People who have an initmate walk with God do the things that JamesSager says he does. People who are Spirit-filled speak of these things. You can't dream them up without the Holy Spirit.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Based on...?

It's not spiritually wrong, morally wrong or physically wrong. It has health benefits on both an emotional and physiological level. It is useful in the sense that it allows you to understand your body better and what you enjoy. It is observed in animals and infants.

The only thing it has against it is your closely-held religious beliefs.

You're arguing with reality, Floatingaxe. Reality tends not to lose.

It has no benefit at all. It is an activity that the self-centered and undisciplined does. That's reality.

 

[Dannager]

People who have an initmate walk with God do the things that JamesSager says he does. People who are Spirit-filled speak of these things. You can't dream them up without the Holy Spirit.

Sure they can. They might be dishonest about it, but it's not like they can't pull a convincing lie on you.

 

[Dannager]

It has no benefit at all.

There isn't a single non-religious medical organization out there that agrees with you. You are arguing against reality.

It is an activity that the self-centered and undisciplined does.

No, it's an activity that sexually healthy individuals without the weight of oppressive religious guilt take part in. You're demonizing it because you don't like it, and you don't like it because that's how you were raised and you're really not interested in re-examining those beliefs with a critical eye. That would make you uncomfortable, and you (being human) don't like being uncomfortable.

That's reality.