What Do You Propose...?

[Zaac]

Saying homosexuals are sinners is judging.

Homosexuals ARE sinners. And for the record, i have no problem righteously judging as God directs the spiritual man to do.

 

[lincolngreen50]

If someone is naturally gay how do you propose they stop finding the same-sex attractive?

Is one naturallly an impulsive liar?
How does one stop being an impulsive liar?
How does one stop being a murderer?
How does one stop coveting their neighbours wife?
By following the Word of the Lord
And sinning no more!

 

[davedjy]

Is one naturallly an impulsive liar?
How does one stop being an impulsive liar?
How does one stop being a murderer?
How does one stop coveting their neighbours wife?
By following the Word of the Lord
And sinning no more!

Which STILL will not turn a gay person straight.

 

[Zaac]

Is one naturallly an impulsive liar?
How does one stop being an impulsive liar?
How does one stop being a murderer?
How does one stop coveting their neighbours wife?
By following the Word of the Lord
And sinning no more!

 

[Zaac]

Which STILL will not turn a gay person straight.

If you look at the very last thing said , it says By following the Word of the Lord
And sinning no more!

It didn't say anything about gays magically turning straight.

Like the woman caught in adultery, God demands that we GO! and sin no more.

 

[davedjy]

If you look at the very last thing said , it says By following the Word of the Lord
And sinning no more!

It didn't say anything about gays magically turning straight.

Like the woman caught in adultery, God demands that we GO! and sin no more.

That doesn't refute my statement, in the least.

Read the FIRST PAGE of this thread where I mentioned what canned statements would be mentioned, such as having to stay celibate. You aren't highlighting any new point, EXCEPT WHAT I FORECASTED IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD:

You are most likely going to get canned responses like "Jesus will heal you, if you repent", or "you must stay celibate for the rest of your life".

This just proves how sick fundamental Christianity is.

Following an arbitrary rule that doesn't make any sense, based upon a lack of education on what the text is condemning.

 

[LunarPlexus]

Zecryphon, thank you for your reply.

I'm actually curious about this:

Matthew 5:28

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I'm interested to know if this is only applying to this specific scenario, or if it is an example used to make the point that CONSIDERING sin is equal to COMMITING sin.

If considering sin is equal to committing it, then aren't we just basically screwed?

In response to lincolngreen: lying, killing, and coveting are all acts. Homosexuality itself is a sexual preference, not an act.

How do we just stop?

 

[Zecryphon]

Zecryphon, thank you for your reply.

I'm actually curious about this:

Matthew 5:28

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I'm interested to know if this is only applying to this specific scenario, or if it is an example used to make the point that CONSIDERING sin is equal to COMMITING sin.

If considering sin is equal to committing it, then aren't we just basically screwed?

In response to lincolngreen: lying, killing, and coveting are all acts. Homosexuality itself is a sexual preference, not an act.

How do we just stop?

"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I'm interested to know if this is only applying to this specific scenario, or if it is an example used to make the point that CONSIDERING sin is equal to COMMITING sin."

I think the point is the condition of a person's heart here. I could be wrong. But that's my take on it. I think Jesus is saying that thinking about it is just as bad as actually doing it. I think He's saying that we are to have pure minds as well as pure lives.

"If considering sin is equal to committing it, then aren't we just basically screwed?"

No, because of His work on the cross. His perfect life, death and resurrection has secured salvation for all those who by the power of the Holy Spirit, repent of their sins and call upon His name to be saved from their sins and God's wrath, which we have earned through our sins. That's the good news. That we're not screwed, that God has provided a way for us sinners in need to be reconciled to Him through His son.

"How do we just stop?"

I know this part is intended for Lincoln, but no one can just stop any kind of sinful behavior or thought. It is through the power of Christ that we can ever have the ability to even want to stop these behaviors. Since becoming a Christian I have not ceased to find the opposite sex attractive. But it's how we respond to these temptations that is evidence of Christ in our life, what He has done for us and the changes He has made to us.

 

[HaloHope]

Is one naturallly an impulsive liar?
How does one stop being an impulsive liar?
How does one stop being a murderer?
How does one stop coveting their neighbours wife?
By following the Word of the Lord
And sinning no more!

None of those things are remotely comporable to a sexual orientation

 

[HaloHope]

Are these "clean, nice heterosexuals" married? If they're not God is torqued at them too for they are committing adultery and that is not a sin that God takes lightly, just because they, like you, are in a loving committed relationship. There is no free pass for heterosexuals. They commit just as much sexual immorality as the homosexuals do, if not more, because there are more of them doing it.

I was being sarcastic. I personally see no difference between homosexual sex or hetrosexual sex in the boundries of a monogamous relationship (what I believe the defenition of marriage is) . However many do.

 

[HaloHope]

I don't think they can. Just like heterosexuals can't stop finding people of the opposite sex attractive. It's what you do in response to that attraction that is the key here. Do you act upon it in a sinful way? Just thinking about sex with someone is committing adultery.

I most certainly don't think about sex with random women I pass on the street and find attractive. I do however think sexual thoughts about the woman I have spent 2 years of my life with. Shes the only person I've ever been with (and hopefully will remain the only person I have been with) and I certainly don;t consider it a sin to have those thoughts in our relationship. However I don't believe the Bible says homosexuality is a sin either.

Jesus said this in Matthew 5:27-28. Everyone who is a Christian must deny themselves and take up their cross, whatever that may be, and follow after Jesus. It's not easy. Anyone who thinks that being a Christian is easy, has never read the New Testament. It's a life of constant, daily denial of self. That isn't easy for anybody regardless of sexual orientation. But with the power of Jesus working in us and in our lives, we shall overcome our obstacles and stumbling blocks, whatever they may be.

This is where I find the argument that gay people should remain celibate incredibly and irationally unreasonable. While I agree we are meant to avoid sin (bearing in mind I do not view homosexuality in the context of a monogamous relationship to be a sin in itself) asking people to give up on having relationships with the gender they find attractive is completely unfair if hetrosexuals are permitted to have commited relationships. The only way I would consider it reasonable to ask homosexuals to be celibate was if all hetrosexuals gave up on their relationships too. If you guys get to have that fulfillment in your life, I sure as hell am going to aswell.

This one of the reasons I don;t consider homosexuality to be a sin, as it would be completely unfair, unreasonable and irrational of God to make it so. Fortunately God isnt any of those things so therefore homosexuality isnt a sin.

 

[Zecryphon]

"I most certainly don't think about sex with random women I pass on the street and find attractive."

Do you lust in any way after them? Or wonder what it might be like to be with them, even if it's just a passing thought? You can answer this for yourself. I don't need to know.

"I do however think sexual thoughts about the woman I have spent 2 years of my life with. Shes the only person I've ever been with (and hopefully will remain the only person I have been with) and I certainly don;t consider it a sin to have those thoughts in our relationship."

Okay, but who's standard of behavior are you to be following as a Christian? Yours or Christ's? That's a rhetorical question for you to answer for yourself.

"However I don't believe the Bible says homosexuality is a sin either."

That's obviously debatable and I have no intention of debating that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
Jesus said this in Matthew 5:27-28. Everyone who is a Christian must deny themselves and take up their cross, whatever that may be, and follow after Jesus. It's not easy. Anyone who thinks that being a Christian is easy, has never read the New Testament. It's a life of constant, daily denial of self. That isn't easy for anybody regardless of sexual orientation. But with the power of Jesus working in us and in our lives, we shall overcome our obstacles and stumbling blocks, whatever they may be.

"This is where I find the argument that gay people should remain celibate incredibly and irationally unreasonable."

Well there are some states that will marry you. Is this something you have considered doing? Going to a state and getting married? I know California and Connecticut, and I'm pretty sure Massachussettes will marry homosexual couples who desire it. So that's always an option. If a person's objection to you is that you're having sex outside of marriage.

"While I agree we are meant to avoid sin (bearing in mind I do not view homosexuality in the context of a monogamous relationship to be a sin in itself) asking people to give up on having relationships with the gender they find attractive is completely unfair if hetrosexuals are permitted to have commited relationships."

That's just it though, heterosexuals are not permitted to have committed relationships, if that committed relationship involves sexual relations. That too is adultery and a sin against God. The difference you're encountering is the attitude of society in general towards the hetero vs. homosexual committed relationship. It's a double standard, total hypocrisy and doesn't fly with God.

"The only way I would consider it reasonable to ask homosexuals to be celibate was if all hetrosexuals gave up on their relationships too."

Until they are married they should. But most heterosexuals think it's perfectly normal to have sex before marriage and a lot of them are practicing Christians. Practicing Christians who apparently don't read their Bibles.

"If you guys get to have that fulfillment in your life, I sure as hell am going to as well."

And God will accept that reasoning why? Look at what you're doing, you're trying to justify your behavior by what society dictates instead of what God dictates. Heterosexuals are guilty of this as well.

"This one of the reasons I don;t consider homosexuality to be a sin, as it would be completely unfair, unreasonable and irrational of God to make it so."

Only by your standards though. Guess what? Our standards of what we consider fair are irrelevant, it is only what God considers fair that matters. Furthermore, we deserve nothing from God, except death. We have earned that from God with our sins. We certainly don't deserve grace, mercy and salvation, all of which is available to us through His Son Jesus Christ.

"Fortunately God isnt any of those things so therefore homosexuality isnt a sin."

It's interesting reasoning.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Homosexuals ARE sinners. And for the record, i have no problem righteously judging as God directs the spiritual man to do.

Well, in the same manner that heterosexuals are sinners, yes, I agree.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Do you lust in any way after them? Or wonder what it might be like to be with them, even if it's just a passing thought? You can answer this for yourself. I don't need to know.

You SAY you don't need to know. But then you and others on this board ask questions regarding lust and fornication ad nauseam.

How can anyone seriously believe that you guys don't want or need to know?

If you don't need or want to know, why ask in the first place?

 

[HaloHope]

Well there are some states that will marry you. Is this something you have considered doing? Going to a state and getting married? I know California and Connecticut, and I'm pretty sure Massachussettes will marry homosexual couples who desire it. So that's always an option. If a person's objection to you is that you're having sex outside of marriage.

I live in the UK which allows same sex unions but not "marriage" (the seperate but equal idea you see). I will be having a "marriage" with my partner in the future, however I do not believe it is nessecery in Gods eyes.

That's just it though, heterosexuals are not permitted to have committed relationships, if that committed relationship involves sexual relations. That too is adultery and a sin against God. The difference you're encountering is the attitude of society in general towards the hetero vs. homosexual committed relationship. It's a double standard, total hypocrisy and doesn't fly with God.

I believe a human ritual is insignificant to God. If two people are commited to each other its marriage regardless of whether theyve had a ceremony.

Until they are married they should. But most heterosexuals think it's perfectly normal to have sex before marriage and a lot of them are practicing Christians. Practicing Christians who apparently don't read their Bibles.

See above

And God will accept that reasoning why? Look at what you're doing, you're trying to justify your behavior by what society dictates instead of what God dictates. Heterosexuals are guilty of this as well.

Again as I dont see God dictating homosexuality is wrong... this really dosent fit in with my view of what I am doing.

Only by your standards though. Guess what? Our standards of what we consider fair are irrelevant, it is only what God considers fair that matters. Furthermore, we deserve nothing from God, except death. We have earned that from God with our sins. We certainly don't deserve grace, mercy and salvation, all of which is available to us through His Son Jesus Christ.

If God by his very defeinition is fair and just then he wouldnt do something so obviously unfair and just.

It's interesting reasoning.

Thanks

 

[]RiSeN[]

[/color]

I live in the UK which allows same sex unions but not "marriage" (the seperate but equal idea you see). I will be having a "marriage" with my partner in the future, however I do not believe it is nessecery in Gods eyes.

What about what God believes?

I believe a human ritual is insignificant to God. If two people are commited to each other its marriage regardless of whether theyve had a ceremony.

Again, what about what God believes and says?

Again as I dont see God dictating homosexuality is wrong... this really dosent fit in with my view of what I am doing.

Perhaps you should listen to Him by studying His word the bible.

If God by his very defeinition is fair and just then he wouldnt do something so obviously unfair and just.

The key word is "His" definition, not yours. Your attitude seems more of having God serve you then you serve Him.

 

[Zecryphon]

You SAY you don't need to know. But then you and others on this board ask questions regarding lust and fornication ad nauseam.

How can anyone seriously believe that you guys don't want or need to know?

If you don't need or want to know, why ask in the first place?

I'm asking the question so that the person I'm talking to thinks about it for themselves, to think about their own behavior. Maybe they've never thought about it because no one ever asked them about it.

 

[Zecryphon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
And God will accept that reasoning why? Look at what you're doing, you're trying to justify your behavior by what society dictates instead of what God dictates. Heterosexuals are guilty of this as well.

"Again as I dont see God dictating homosexuality is wrong... this really dosent fit in with my view of what I am doing."

I'm not talking about homosexuality there, I'm talking about sex outside of marriage, which is adultery regardless of the sexual orientation of the couple involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
Only by your standards though. Guess what? Our standards of what we consider fair are irrelevant, it is only what God considers fair that matters. Furthermore, we deserve nothing from God, except death. We have earned that from God with our sins. We certainly don't deserve grace, mercy and salvation, all of which is available to us through His Son Jesus Christ.

"If God by his very defeinition is fair and just then he wouldnt do something so obviously unfair and just."

What does the word "just" mean to you? To me it means one that upholds the law. God has said that sex outside of marriage is adultery and a sin. So if God upholds the law, then anyone who breaks the law, regardless of sexual orientation must be punished. That is just behavior. Just because you may not see it as a sin, doesn't mean that God doesn't see it as a sin. If God is just He must punish all sinners, because that's what the law demands. If He just let sinners go, who have broken the law, would you consider Him to be a just judge? Would you consider a judge on this planet to be just, if he or she let repeat crimminals go free? No. So why should it be any different for God? Shouldn't God be even more just than an earthly judge, because He is perfect?

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Lunar Plexus, gay people - well, gay people are evil. Evil right down to their cold black hearts, which pump not blood like yours and mine, but rather a thick vomitous oil that oozes through their rotten veins and clots in their pea-sized brains, which becomes the cause of their Naziesque patterns of violent behaviour. Do you understand?

Thankfully i am very familiar with your posts, so i can sit here and laugh!!! Great post!

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Assuming for a minute that homosexuality is an abomination, what do the anti-gays on this board suggest we do about it?

Are we no longer abominations when we don't act upon our homosexual urges, but still maintain our sexual preference?

If so, how do you suggest we deny our own thoughts and feelings?

Are we just total lost causes?

How do we 'Fix' our homosexuality?

I'd be very interested to hear theories on this one.

Are you REALLY sure you're interested in hearing? It will b/c quite amusing. You'll get everytihng from a healing alter call, or become celibate, or abstain, or go to ex-gay therapy where some savage make-believe pastors will pray the gay away, and all sorta fun things. Keep in mind, most of those that think it can be changed, and it's just "the enemy" speaking, also believe the earth is flat, dinosaurs are made up, and the earth is only 2000 years old...so be smart, use your God-given intelligence, and take what you hear with a grain of salt..and then some! Peace!!!