Provoker writes:
Hello V:
What do you mean when you write: "I am truth based"?
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
Hi Provoker
Truth based?
Good question.
The contemplative life finds it's joy in discovering truth.
Now all we have to do is find out 'what truth is' to experience such joy?
Where does truth reside so I can pay it a visit?
Truth resides within us and is available; to us all if we just back down on the ego.
As my atheist friend Neil tells me, we all have an ego.
And as I've told Neil before, the prominence of that ego determines if we are truth based or ego based.
Atheists are always hard to pin down when the discussion cannot be perfected in terms that will satisfy the them.
One time I posted:
"Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well as others peace. It takes no energy from me to pass something by and leave it alone in peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to pick something up to destroy it."
After I posted this paragraph, an atheist piped to call me a liar and accuse me of hypocrisy, telling me that I destroy a potato when I pick it up to eat it.
Natural law dictates I must eat, but there is no law that says I must spew venom from my mouth to destroy others.
If atheists can get over fishing for red herrings and get onto bigger fish to fry they will see a world of difference in their peace practice.
The destruction of inner peace by destroying potatoes comes about when I destroy my neighbors crop field of potatoes by poisoning them to bankrupt him in order to take over his farmland...it does not come about by eating a potato.
The God of Nature gives me potatoes to eat, the God of inner Peace tells me to not eat potatoes in excess or to destroy others if I wish to be at peace. I cannot see either God, I know not how they work, I just know they are.
See:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Another time I was discussing virtue and developing a good heart. The atheists told me that the heart is only a blood pump...and they are right...so let's say that our virtue emanates from the fabric of our very being...but I guess the atheists will argue we are not made of fabric either!
I learn from all whether atheists or theists.
The theist reminds me to look for God in all things and to practice charity and peace promotion.
The atheists remind me to come back to earth once in a while and not get caught in speculation too much.
See:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=543.0
Do I hate atheists?
No, I think they are pretty much right with their evaluation of the monotheists...if one leaves hate out of the equation.
I just write about atheists a lot since I've been kicked out and banned from the Christian and Buddhist forums...so that is where I ended up...with the atheists.
Ses:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=343.0
But being an agnostic, I also have an open mind to God or a higher spiritual power.
Atheists seem to be like animals caught in trap, squirming and writhing in every direction, looking, grasping outside of themselves for freedom from this trap to find a modicum of inner peace.
But the trap is an 'inner one' and all your efforts at hatred and snapping at others are futile.
Always remember, passions are rooted in the self and the self is always is in flux which accounts for the rise and fall of these passions.
Whereas, truth is stable - for the truth is that which does not change.
Seek truth mind manacled atheist and just do not pay it lip service
Certain Buddhists and Taoists I run into, especially the debaters, great philosophers and sensationalists, like to promote the idea of there is 'no true or false'. or 'no right and wrong' to judge in life.
Taoist's believe that if we do not favor right or wrong, good or bad, beauty or ugliness we will not become attached to such outcomes. They also believe that the cosmic forces do not favor any of these things but treat all with equanimity, so they wish to mimic the cosmos to be in unity with it.
While this extreme view of "no right or wrong" holds some truth, it also needs to be balanced with the idea of the conventual view of right and wrong to find a balanced "middle path" view of right and wrong if we wish to live within society.
So that is how I approach your question by answering as imperfectly and perfectly as I can.
Sometime the truth is relative, sometimes it is a best fit scenario.
But generally we can say the truth is that which does not change.
Huxley may have said it best:
"The highest object that human beings can set before themselves is not the pursuit of any such chimera as the annihilation of the unknown: it is simply the unwearied endeavor to remove its boundaries a little further from our little sphere of action."
And if you are not a fan of Huxley, I will offer you some Aristotle:
"It is the mark of an educated mind to rest satisfied with the degree of precision which the nature of the subject admits and not to seek exactness where only an approximation is possible."
This in itself is a good indicator of whether you are 'truth based' or 'ego based' Provoker. For why would you favor one philosopher over another?
Why not favor truth?
I argue with no one Provoker.
If I have the truth, I keep it and use it and share it.
If you do not want it that is OK, I make no demands you adopt it.
If I am wrong and you have the truth I adopt it readily and now I have the truth as well.
Wherever the truth is - that is where I go.
This is not so just because people have the cleverest argument to prove such things. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
If it was otherwise, the spin doctors would be the kings and queen of inner peace.
What is rhetoric based on?
Truth?
No...rhetoric is based on making the lie 'appear' as if it was truth.
Rhetoric is based on ego.
The truth can be tested Provoker.
The rhetoricians lies does not hold up to testing, they only holds up to lip service.
The truth can only be found from a choice divorced from need Provoker...we divorce the need to massage our ego and are honest with ourselves and others
As atheists and theists, we test truth via practical application of a life that yields us and others inner peace.
Contrast this to faith based...hate based...instinct based...
Again all these apply to us.
Yes, even the atheist 'have faith' that their hatred wilt provide them peace.
But before one can test, one must be open to finding the truth.
Something the mind manacled, dogmatic atheist cannot do as their 'ego based instincts' block them from ever finding a new way to live.
Neither can the delusional faith based theist for that matter. But at least the theist pays attention to their religions prepackaged morals.
As a first step for seeking truth, we look honesty at what is said and not at who says what.
See:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....aec99/c99a0e01b4947eca?hl=en#c99a0e01b4947eca
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
If one sticks to: true, false or don't know in one's replies they can avoid this trap by arguing facts and not personalities.
There is no such thing as 'opinionated' - 'provocative' 'controversial' subjects.
These are only subjective and prejudicial states of mind.
How do we know e are truth based Provoker.
When we have someone tells us the truth what do we do?
Do we thank them for the truth or do we hate them for the truth?
This is the acid test for determining truth based wisdom Provoker.
When we invest excessive time and energies in acquiring or building attachments these attachments become veritable extensions of our being and come to define us for ourselves as well as define who we are for others.
When these attachments take on this role we become susceptible to pain via these extensions. If the person, place or thing we are attached to gets rebuked it is a personal rebuke on us, if they get damaged or defaced so goes the defacement and damage to our very being.
It is hard to become full detached to ideas, for if we did we would be like a feather floating wherever the wind blew us and would pick up any old idea with no firm grounding of what we perceive as right or wrong.
But, we can practice being open minded and look at ideas without prejudice that we immediately hit ideas with. Learn to judge other less. We especially do this with everyone we meet...they are better or lesser than me type of thinking.
Fear based reasons for doing something, as theist mostly do, are not authentic and natural actions.
The persons actions are based on negative consequences otherwise they would not do them.
My actions are based on inner peace and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my choice.
Put your inner peace foremost and you will have your answer Provoker.
When you align real and authentic actions with those that promote inner peace you are on the road to enlightenment.
Also See:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
Hello V:
What do you mean when you write: "I am truth based"?
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
Hi Provoker
Truth based?
Good question.
The contemplative life finds it's joy in discovering truth.
Now all we have to do is find out 'what truth is' to experience such joy?
Where does truth reside so I can pay it a visit?
Truth resides within us and is available; to us all if we just back down on the ego.
As my atheist friend Neil tells me, we all have an ego.
And as I've told Neil before, the prominence of that ego determines if we are truth based or ego based.
Atheists are always hard to pin down when the discussion cannot be perfected in terms that will satisfy the them.
One time I posted:
"Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well as others peace. It takes no energy from me to pass something by and leave it alone in peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to pick something up to destroy it."
After I posted this paragraph, an atheist piped to call me a liar and accuse me of hypocrisy, telling me that I destroy a potato when I pick it up to eat it.
Natural law dictates I must eat, but there is no law that says I must spew venom from my mouth to destroy others.
If atheists can get over fishing for red herrings and get onto bigger fish to fry they will see a world of difference in their peace practice.
The destruction of inner peace by destroying potatoes comes about when I destroy my neighbors crop field of potatoes by poisoning them to bankrupt him in order to take over his farmland...it does not come about by eating a potato.
The God of Nature gives me potatoes to eat, the God of inner Peace tells me to not eat potatoes in excess or to destroy others if I wish to be at peace. I cannot see either God, I know not how they work, I just know they are.
See:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Another time I was discussing virtue and developing a good heart. The atheists told me that the heart is only a blood pump...and they are right...so let's say that our virtue emanates from the fabric of our very being...but I guess the atheists will argue we are not made of fabric either!
I learn from all whether atheists or theists.
The theist reminds me to look for God in all things and to practice charity and peace promotion.
The atheists remind me to come back to earth once in a while and not get caught in speculation too much.
See:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=543.0
Do I hate atheists?
No, I think they are pretty much right with their evaluation of the monotheists...if one leaves hate out of the equation.
I just write about atheists a lot since I've been kicked out and banned from the Christian and Buddhist forums...so that is where I ended up...with the atheists.
Ses:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=343.0
But being an agnostic, I also have an open mind to God or a higher spiritual power.
Atheists seem to be like animals caught in trap, squirming and writhing in every direction, looking, grasping outside of themselves for freedom from this trap to find a modicum of inner peace.
But the trap is an 'inner one' and all your efforts at hatred and snapping at others are futile.
Always remember, passions are rooted in the self and the self is always is in flux which accounts for the rise and fall of these passions.
Whereas, truth is stable - for the truth is that which does not change.
Seek truth mind manacled atheist and just do not pay it lip service
Certain Buddhists and Taoists I run into, especially the debaters, great philosophers and sensationalists, like to promote the idea of there is 'no true or false'. or 'no right and wrong' to judge in life.
Taoist's believe that if we do not favor right or wrong, good or bad, beauty or ugliness we will not become attached to such outcomes. They also believe that the cosmic forces do not favor any of these things but treat all with equanimity, so they wish to mimic the cosmos to be in unity with it.
While this extreme view of "no right or wrong" holds some truth, it also needs to be balanced with the idea of the conventual view of right and wrong to find a balanced "middle path" view of right and wrong if we wish to live within society.
So that is how I approach your question by answering as imperfectly and perfectly as I can.
Sometime the truth is relative, sometimes it is a best fit scenario.
But generally we can say the truth is that which does not change.
Huxley may have said it best:
"The highest object that human beings can set before themselves is not the pursuit of any such chimera as the annihilation of the unknown: it is simply the unwearied endeavor to remove its boundaries a little further from our little sphere of action."
And if you are not a fan of Huxley, I will offer you some Aristotle:
"It is the mark of an educated mind to rest satisfied with the degree of precision which the nature of the subject admits and not to seek exactness where only an approximation is possible."
This in itself is a good indicator of whether you are 'truth based' or 'ego based' Provoker. For why would you favor one philosopher over another?
Why not favor truth?
I argue with no one Provoker.
If I have the truth, I keep it and use it and share it.
If you do not want it that is OK, I make no demands you adopt it.
If I am wrong and you have the truth I adopt it readily and now I have the truth as well.
Wherever the truth is - that is where I go.
This is not so just because people have the cleverest argument to prove such things. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
If it was otherwise, the spin doctors would be the kings and queen of inner peace.
What is rhetoric based on?
Truth?
No...rhetoric is based on making the lie 'appear' as if it was truth.
Rhetoric is based on ego.
The truth can be tested Provoker.
The rhetoricians lies does not hold up to testing, they only holds up to lip service.
The truth can only be found from a choice divorced from need Provoker...we divorce the need to massage our ego and are honest with ourselves and others
As atheists and theists, we test truth via practical application of a life that yields us and others inner peace.
Contrast this to faith based...hate based...instinct based...
Again all these apply to us.
Yes, even the atheist 'have faith' that their hatred wilt provide them peace.
But before one can test, one must be open to finding the truth.
Something the mind manacled, dogmatic atheist cannot do as their 'ego based instincts' block them from ever finding a new way to live.
Neither can the delusional faith based theist for that matter. But at least the theist pays attention to their religions prepackaged morals.
As a first step for seeking truth, we look honesty at what is said and not at who says what.
See:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....aec99/c99a0e01b4947eca?hl=en#c99a0e01b4947eca
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
If one sticks to: true, false or don't know in one's replies they can avoid this trap by arguing facts and not personalities.
There is no such thing as 'opinionated' - 'provocative' 'controversial' subjects.
These are only subjective and prejudicial states of mind.
How do we know e are truth based Provoker.
When we have someone tells us the truth what do we do?
Do we thank them for the truth or do we hate them for the truth?
This is the acid test for determining truth based wisdom Provoker.
When we invest excessive time and energies in acquiring or building attachments these attachments become veritable extensions of our being and come to define us for ourselves as well as define who we are for others.
When these attachments take on this role we become susceptible to pain via these extensions. If the person, place or thing we are attached to gets rebuked it is a personal rebuke on us, if they get damaged or defaced so goes the defacement and damage to our very being.
It is hard to become full detached to ideas, for if we did we would be like a feather floating wherever the wind blew us and would pick up any old idea with no firm grounding of what we perceive as right or wrong.
But, we can practice being open minded and look at ideas without prejudice that we immediately hit ideas with. Learn to judge other less. We especially do this with everyone we meet...they are better or lesser than me type of thinking.
Fear based reasons for doing something, as theist mostly do, are not authentic and natural actions.
The persons actions are based on negative consequences otherwise they would not do them.
My actions are based on inner peace and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my choice.
Put your inner peace foremost and you will have your answer Provoker.
When you align real and authentic actions with those that promote inner peace you are on the road to enlightenment.
Also See:
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
http: (removed due to censorship guidelines)
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
