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What do you mean when you say God "exists"?

dlamberth

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That makes no sense.
Reality is reality. You can have different beliefs about reality, but then at least one of you is going to be incorrect. Because you both live in the same reality.

I "experience", reality different than you. What I see, hear, feel and even think is different than you. When we look at the same people what you see and and what I see will be different, guaranteed. Even how we see them will be different which will bring different realities of experience to each of us. We have different life experiences which bring on different realities.

The same when we look at a mountain or river of trees, what you see and and what I see will be different

Calling things "truth", does not make them truth.
It sure can, it just depends.
 
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DogmaHunter

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I "experience", reality different than you. What I see, hear, feel and even think is different than you. When we look at the same people what you see and and what I see will be different, guaranteed. Even how we see them will be different which will bring different realities of experience to each of us. We have different life experiences which bring on different realities.

The same when we look at a mountain or river of trees, what you see and and what I see will be different

It sure can, it just depends.

Sure. But none of this matters to what is actually real and your initial claims about "absolute realities".
 
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dlamberth

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Sure. But none of this matters to what is actually real and your initial claims about "absolute realities".
Sure it matters. If (and they do) Indigenous cultures experience things like trees as a Verb, that matters to them. It's how they relate to reality. And it very well could be that those who don't, their the ones who are delusional. How a person relates to the Earth and things on it changes, depending upon their perspective.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Sure it matters. If (and they do) Indigenous cultures experience things like trees as a Verb, that matters to them. It's how they relate to reality. And it very well could be that those who don't, their the ones who are delusional. How a person relates to the Earth and things on it changes, depending upon their perspective.

lol

that a "tree" isn't a verbe, isn't a matter of "experience" or "interpretation"..... :rolleyes:
 
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dlamberth

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lol

that a "tree" isn't a verbe, isn't a matter of "experience" or "interpretation"..... :rolleyes:
Well, it IS a matter of experience. Some even experience the Soul of trees and commune with Nature.

Your looking at the world from a mechanical perspective which is how we in the West view things. That's why we no longer know Nature as Sacred. We've lost the communal relationship with Nature. It's become a "thing" to exploit. There are other ways to see and experience Nature where it is alive, vibrant and with Soul.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Well, it IS a matter of experience.

No, it's a matter of language and what a tree IS.

A tree is an object.
A verbe refers to an action.

An object is not an action.

I tree, you tree, we tree, they tree,... I have treed.

It makes no sense.

Some even experience the Soul of trees and commune with Nature.

Yeah, I call them "tree huggers". :D

Your looking at the world from a mechanical perspective which is how we in the West view things. That's why we no longer know Nature as Sacred. We've lost the communal relationship with Nature. It's become a "thing" to exploit. There are other ways to see and experience Nature where it is alive, vibrant and with Soul.

There's a whole area of ways to look at nature between "let's exploit it and not care about anything" and on the other extreme end "nature is godlike and sacred and must be worshipped".


The world isn't black and white.
But your statements are and they don't make any sense either.

Trees are physical objects, biological organisms. Not verbes.
 
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dlamberth

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No, it's a matter of language and what a tree IS.

A tree is an object.
A verbe refers to an action.

An object is not an action.
Where your are looking at language, I'm looking at Consciousness and what a person is Conscious of. There is life in trees, an energy, a vitality and uniqueness of being that can be and is experienced as an action by many.

But here again, it depends upon one's reality and where they reach into Consciousness in their reality. In the example I gave previously, the Indigenous people very much do experiences Trees and all of Nature as a Verb. So for example, as they walk, they see themselves traveling through Nature as one with Nature, and with Nature is understood as an action. It's a different reality than our way of the West which is mechanical oriented in it's view of Nature.

I tree, you tree, we tree, they tree,... I have treed.

It makes no sense.

Yeah, I call them "tree huggers". :D
Honestly, I understand that it makes no sense to you. We in the West have been trained to see Nature as mechanical. That's a fairly new phenomenon for the Human species actually.

There's a whole area of ways to look at nature between "let's exploit it and not care about anything" and on the other extreme end "nature is godlike and sacred and must be worshipped".
It's different than what your describing. We don't worship the tree. We see God in all things including trees. That's level of seeing the Divine in Nature is what makes all of Nature sacred. I like how Rabbi Heschel put it: "The grandeur of Nature is only the beginning. Beyond the grandeur is God," because it reveals "the presence of God".

Sacredness sets up a different level of Loving than just caring about something.

The world isn't black and white.
But your statements are and they don't make any sense either.
I understand. We're coming from two different realities, with differing Consciousness of Nature

Trees are physical objects, biological organisms. Not verbes.
I see two aspects of the mind: the intuitive which grasps the whole but does not distinguish he parts, and the rational which distinguishes the parts but cannot grasp the whole. In my world trees have Souls and are part of the whole. With the whole as an activity of God.

I'm pretty partial to the idea that reason without intuition is empty and sterile.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Where your are looking at language, I'm looking at Consciousness and what a person is Conscious of. There is life in trees, an energy, a vitality and uniqueness of being that can be and is experienced as an action by many.

But here again, it depends upon one's reality and where they reach into Consciousness in their reality. In the example I gave previously, the Indigenous people very much do experiences Trees and all of Nature as a Verb. So for example, as they walk, they see themselves traveling through Nature as one with Nature, and with Nature is understood as an action. It's a different reality than our way of the West which is mechanical oriented in it's view of Nature.


Honestly, I understand that it makes no sense to you. We in the West have been trained to see Nature as mechanical. That's a fairly new phenomenon for the Human species actually.


It's different than what your describing. We don't worship the tree. We see God in all things including trees. That's level of seeing the Divine in Nature is what makes all of Nature sacred. I like how Rabbi Heschel put it: "The grandeur of Nature is only the beginning. Beyond the grandeur is God," because it reveals "the presence of God".

Sacredness sets up a different level of Loving than just caring about something.


I understand. We're coming from two different realities, with differing Consciousness of Nature


I see two aspects of the mind: the intuitive which grasps the whole but does not distinguish he parts, and the rational which distinguishes the parts but cannot grasp the whole. In my world trees have Souls and are part of the whole. With the whole as an activity of God.

I'm pretty partial to the idea that reason without intuition is empty and sterile.
All this reads like whoowhoo and word salad, I'm sorry to say.
 
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devolved

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No, it's a matter of language and what a tree IS.

A tree is an object.
A verbe refers to an action.

An object is not an action.

I tree, you tree, we tree, they tree,... I have treed.

It makes no sense.


What he seems to be trying to point to is that a Tree isn't an "object", but merely a label for experience of an object on one end, and a manifestation of functional reality on the other end.

A word "tree" would be absolutely meaningless apart from the contingent network of concepts that are mostly functional descriptions which are then turned into nouns.
 
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