What do you like and dislike about Fantasy?

[Rion]

There Are Other Worlds


Chances are, most of the people reading this article will have pale skin. A great many will speak English as their first language or will have been taught the language from middle childhood. Perhaps a bare majority or a large plurality will have grown up hearing of this thing called 'the American Dream.' Possibly, those reading this will never have experienced abject poverty, living their lives in a comfortable bourgeois setting. Likely, these elements will make for a common experience among those who read this blog, those who purchase and read 'fantasy' novels, those who participate in forums devoted to such literature on the web.

But not everyone falls in that category. Quiza, hable usted español. Si yo hubiera escrito éste artículo sobre el imperialismo de los 'gringos' o 'yanquis' y como autores como Gabriel García Márquez o Alejo Carpentier escribieron cuentos utilizando ese condición malo para contar cuentos de la esperanza y la desesperación, algunos no aceptarían que estos cuentos puedan ser fantasías. After all, for some, 'fantasies' must follow certain conventions and preferably exist somewhere safe away, protected against the intrusions of our world. A great many people with whom I've conversed over the years at wotmania and elsewhere have expressed this desire for their 'fantasies' to be separate from real-world concerns, concerns such as racism, sexism, homophobia, poverty, the inequal distribution of resources, or how we humans appear to conceive the world.

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It doesn't mean it'll survive adaption if you do, however. (Earthsea anyone?) Also, I think many are probably like myself: I don't mind if racism, poverty, etc. is brought up in a story, but it's often anvilicious, and handled really, reeeaaally poorly.

 

[keith99]

It doesn't mean it'll survive adaption if you do, however. (Earthsea anyone?) Also, I think many are probably like myself: I don't mind if racism, poverty, etc. is brought up in a story, but it's often anvilicious, and handled really, reeeaaally poorly.

I think the anvilicious point is very valid. And when it is handled well it may get missed.

Not Fantasy, but in Science Fiction I can think of some rather good handling. Racism played a rather significant part in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". Have you read that work and if so what did you think of how racism was handled?

 

[Paladin Dave]

I know Warhammer 40,000 wouldn't be the same without a tad of racism and xenophobia. "How do you tell when an Eldar is lying? Their mouth is moving!"

 

[Rion]

What annoys me the most is when people put apostrophes in their names. They are entirely superfluous and make it harder for the reader to understand. I see some of you have done this, and my question to you is "Why??"
And as for fantasy being British... well it's not. I assume you are meaning the way they speak by this, and if so, this can be easily explained. Whether you know it or not, everyone thinks the Brits are smarter than everyone else, because they are always the narrators on Nation Geographic and they always seem to know what they're talking about. ...No. Just kidding.
It's because the British speak with natural vowels and Americans have a ton of diphthongs. Plus, everything sounds cooler with natural vowels. Try it some time...

Note to would-be adventure authors: When making up names, note that the apostrophe is not some sort of universal stand-in for vowels. Stop doing that.

I try to avoid this, but in one of my languages, it serves the purpose of showing when two constants are next to each other, but shouldn't be pronounced as a single sound. The idea being that in the original language the difference between, say, SH and S next to H is obvious, but it isn't in our language.

 

[Rion]

They're irritating. They're all beautiful, they all live longer than humans do, they're vegitarians because "they don't want to cause harm to any other living thing," and they're really weird and New Age-y

Don't forget strong as superman, arrogant, hateful, elitist, and atheists who despise dwarves for believing in gods.

 

[Rion]

I never really made it through Eldest. It seemed really cliched to me, and it seemed like he was just reusing characters and settings from other books like LOTR.

It's like fantasy has become so cliched that no books are original anymore, but unless you use the cliches that have already been beaten to death, then people won't accept it as fantasy.

Actually, those books are basically rip-offs of Star Wars more than anything else.

a simple farm boy raised by his uncle accidentally gains an item. People destroy his farm and kill his uncle in search of that item. He meets an old man (an exile from—and seemingly the last of—an ancient organization of peacekeeping warriors) who travels with him and becomes his mentor. The old man is eventually killed by evil people and the farm boy swears to avenge him. He meets a rebellion (an alliance of many different races) and helps them win a massive battle against overwhelming odds (of course, he's a major part of the battle). Then he goes off to a mysterious place for training by an ancient leader of aforementioned ancient organization of peacekeeping warriors. During the climactic battle of the second installation, he finds out that the physically imposing second-in-command of the main antagonist is his father, differing mainly in that this assumption turns out to be wrong, it is actually his master. Also, unlike the Emperor, Galbatorix has actual reasons for rebellion (insane as they may be - after all, he is insane).

Can't link because it's got a curse word or two in the rest of the article, but...

 

[IzzyPop]

Actually, those books are basically rip-offs of Star Wars more than anything else.

And Star Wars is nothing more than a retelling of King Arthur. Fantasy is a pretty narrow field to plow.

 

[Tirgithin]

What I like about sci-fi and fantasy is a well build world, that feels a alive, including the inhabitants.

I also prefer fantasy without dwarves and elves. It just does not speak to my imagination, because they are generally all interpreted in a similar way.

Too many unnecessary pages. I have read a fantasy book which spends the first 200 pages describing the mundane life of someone who lives as a hermit, before he finally moves away towards adventure (and the adventure still does not start right away). Though it wasn’t a bad read, I feel annoyed when authors get away with stuff that could have been edited, because they feel (or the editor/publisher feels) that they will sell anyway.

I dislike it when heroes/heroines are loose and it is somewhat glorified. The kind of “oh, he is so handsome, he can get any girl in any town”. It feels irrelevant, because those one-night-stands are mostly just there to illustrate to the readers that the hero is a stud. So it is a empty device to show off the hero's prowess. But it does not feel that way, because the hero acts with such disregard and the women he sleeps with usually have little personality, so it feels more like he is easy, like a teenager with raging hormones. Not a hero of sorts. And I can never help but wonder if he picked up diseases…

Authors who favor their characters. That can be a lot of things; pairing certain characters, making sure they are looked upon favourably by fate and the other characters, protected by the author etc. Mary and Marty Stu’s are bad and when characters lack depth or the favorites/good guys get away with stuff that just suspends disbelieve and no one puts them in their place in some way for (verbal, etc.).

I also dislike it when a author is essentially a one trick pony. The same set-up for all books. Like one author I read, had a band of adventurers in every books, always with the same or similar character types and personalities. Also involving gods, some important quest to keep the world sound and safe.

 

[Rion]

I think the anvilicious point is very valid. And when it is handled well it may get missed.

Not Fantasy, but in Science Fiction I can think of some rather good handling. Racism played a rather significant part in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". Have you read that work and if so what did you think of how racism was handled?

Sorry I missed your question. No, I have not. Is it any good?

 

[Rion]

And Star Wars is nothing more than a retelling of King Arthur. Fantasy is a pretty narrow field to plow.

Er... no, it's mostly Flash Gorden meets Japanese Jidaigeki films.

 

[keith99]

Sorry I missed your question. No, I have not. Is it any good?

Yes, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is very good.

There are two times (that I remember) that deal with racism. One is on the readers part and I could delete one word and the race part is gone.

The other is integral to the story, but it is just one small item in a political situation, that is used to the advantage of someone. (and not in the manner we call 'playing the race card').

Neither heavy handed and in both cases the point is made and the story goes on, no beating a dead horse.

It might be interesting to read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" followed by "Farnham's Freehold".

Heinlein didn't like race based garbage in either direction.

 

[EnemyOfReason]

Most annoying is how in Western entertainment aliens are depicted as having no sense of artistry. They are depicted as flying ships and having a bleak society void of artistic expression. All aliens where the same outfits and have no social groups and are purely aesthetic. This is a tradition being broken thankfully

Having aliens as always more technologically advanced then humans is one. I am writing a story about this already actually. It is a very bizarre story but the key part here is that in my depiction aliens are more similar to stone age Arabs then laser shooting robots.

My major issue is Asian sci-fi and how it propagates that mankind will outgrow god" essentially saying we will all get over supposed fairy tales. This primarily stems from the fact that Asians are not religious like Westerners are.

 

[Paladin Dave]

Have you, by chance, ever given Warhammer 40k a try? Their humans are deeply religious (after finding out that their leader's humanistic atheism doesn't hold up in the face of eldritch evils from the immaterium), their aliens tend to be pretty diverse in terms of art and inter-species variation, and there are even some species less technologically advanced than humans.

 

[keith99]

Most annoying is how in Western entertainment aliens are depicted as having no sense of artistry. They are depicted as flying ships and having a bleak society void of artistic expression. All aliens where the same outfits and have no social groups and are purely aesthetic. This is a tradition being broken thankfully

Having aliens as always more technologically advanced then humans is one. I am writing a story about this already actually. It is a very bizarre story but the key part here is that in my depiction aliens are more similar to stone age Arabs then laser shooting robots.

My major issue is Asian sci-fi and how it propagates that mankind will outgrow god" essentially saying we will all get over supposed fairy tales. This primarily stems from the fact that Asians are not religious like Westerners are.

Have you been limiting yourself to cheap pulp fiction that is over 40 years old?

The vast majority of Science Fiction has no aliens at all. Of the stories that do the majority have aliens fairly comparable to us when it come to technology. And while alien art and music is rarely mentioned it is mentioned far more often than our art and music.

 

[EnemyOfReason]

Have you been limiting yourself to cheap pulp fiction that is over 40 years old?

The vast majority of Science Fiction has no aliens at all. Of the stories that do the majority have aliens fairly comparable to us when it come to technology. And while alien art and music is rarely mentioned it is mentioned far more often than our art and music.

Apparently you have not read my post or any science fiction since I clearly stated "This is a tradition being broken thankfully" or perhaps you just like making posts without reading first

 

[Jamali]

Like something fresh about future world.
Dislike too robotic future - where there are no human feelings.

 

[SilverBlade]

Here's what I dislike about Fantasy, movies especially

The over-use of magic/sorcery. It almost used as a crutch, to be the automatic 'go-to' to solve a problem.

"We need to defeat this monster!"
"I know..magic!"

I'd rather see the characters try to use mechanics and knowledge to solve something, than to try to use magic. Magic seems to just eliminate any urgency or fear.

"We need a bridge to get across to the other side!"
"No problem, I'll just command the roots to grow supernaturally"

Ugh, no originality, no suspense, just boom, done. Lame.

 

[Paladin Dave]

The Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire webcomic fell to that trope and then sort of made a joke out of it. Magic is kind of EVERYWHERE in that comic, and yes, relied upon a little too much. But eventually there's a scene where the one stupidly overpowered healer guy ruins a perfectly good tearful farewell between a dying man and his best friend with a blast of healing magic, and the fourth wall barely survives the deadpan blink they give him now that the one guy's not dying anymore. I highly recommend it, aside from the fact that it is, at times, rather violent and a bit sexually charged sometimes. If it helps, most of the especially powerful magic users get some kind of heavy hinderance, comeuppance, or loss of their power-crutch before the comic ends. >=D

 

[keith99]

Apparently you have not read my post or any science fiction since I clearly stated "This is a tradition being broken thankfully" or perhaps you just like making posts without reading first

No, your post implied things were the norm in fantasy and they were not. It is a tradition that never existed.

 

[Blackguard_]

The over-use of magic/sorcery.

That's something I've always disliked about many Quasi-Medieval Fantasy Role Playing Games.

If I want to be trading fireballs and lightning bolts with half the bad guys and monsters I run into, I'll play a Sci-Fi RPG.