what do you know about Islam?

anatolian · Jun 7, 2008

peaceful soul said:
In God's eyes, wrong is wrong, whether it is today or 200 years ago. God's moral standards don't change; otherwise God would be relativistic as well.

Right..Is this why you use your circular logic like "Muhammed can't be a prophet because he wasn't a prophet"? because of the things what God wanted him to do and that Bible is full of ?

elwill · Jun 7, 2008

Montalban said:
Nothing you've said shows that Moslems are forbidden to do this now. Your best bet would be saying Moslems within a western-influenced legal enviornoment would not be able to do so.

the same with christians , nothing in the bible shows that christians are forbidden to do this in any anytime , your society law did , and you accepted it
if our society law did , we will accept it also .
peace

Montalban · Jun 7, 2008

Islam_mulia said:
Ladies and gentlemen, may I introduce to you the greatest 21st century Christian critic of Islam.

Are you saying that Chrisitans DID NOT consider Islam to be a Christian heresy? Odd that you should given you're drawing upon John of Damascus (who was silent on one issue) when his book dealing with Islam is in "Concerning Heresy". Don't tell me you didn't know that?

He was silent on Houris. Obviously he approved of them! ROFL!

Look through the lists of 'apologists' towards Islam of that era. John of Damascus in the 700s, Theodore Abu Qurrah in the 900s (and he was Chalcedonian!). Simply put intellectual retorts against Islam weren't first and foremost in Chrisitan minds.

Montalban · Jun 7, 2008

elwill said:
the same with christians , nothing in the bible shows that christians are forbidden to do this in any anytime , your society law did , and you accepted it
if our society law did , we will accept it also .
peace

Firstly, why is it that Moslems keep jumping back to tu quoque argument?

Secondly, there's a great many things that I'm told I should do, or should not do, that's not in the Bible... though this is off-topic.

I note that even after just re-posting my Islamic advice site, you've not dealt with it.

Montalban · Jun 7, 2008

anatolian said:
Right..Is this why you use your circular logic like "Muhammed can't be a prophet because he wasn't a prophet"? because of the things what God wanted him to do and that Bible is full of ?

Certainly if he didn't act like a prophet, he isn't a prophet. That's not circular!

um hamza · Jun 7, 2008

Montalban said:
39:4
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.

complet the text
4. Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.

um hamza · Jun 7, 2008

Zstar said:
I was inquiring about the Koran, I understand about the length and was referring to the contents wondering if the form of the text contains much biography about the prophet and a percentage (like 25%, 50% or 75% for example) if it does?

I don't have a definite answer i will ask and answer you in shaa Allah

um hamza · Jun 7, 2008

GeorgeTwo said:
Islam increases by birth rate. There are reports of a lot of Muslims who have left Islam -- millions, in fact.

I'm not sure who keeps count. In other words, are the ones who have left still on the "books" so to speak?

millions left islam?? millions mean millions ? are you sure plz say from were you et your words? give us real statics
thanx

Islam_mulia · Jun 7, 2008

Montalban said:
Are you saying that Chrisitans DID NOT consider Islam to be a Christian heresy?

Irrelevant. Are you trying to divert the topic again?

Montalban said:
Odd that you should given you're drawing upon John of Damascus (who was silent on one issue) when his book dealing with Islam is in "Concerning Heresy". Don't tell me you didn't know that?

Again irrelevant. My purpose of quoting John of Damascus is to show that Christians during the Prophet's time has no objection to women marrying early.

Montalban said:
He was silent on Houris. Obviously he approved of them! ROFL!

I dont think he was silent on that. Try to keep on the topic will you?

Montalban said:
Look through the lists of 'apologists' towards Islam of that era. John of Damascus in the 700s, Theodore Abu Qurrah in the 900s (and he was Chalcedonian!). Simply put intellectual retorts against Islam weren't first and foremost in Chrisitan minds.

Oh now we have another Christian writer in the 10th century. So, what did Theodore said about early marriage?

um hamza · Jun 7, 2008

Jefell said:
Mohamaad is the great deceiver... some how this child molester, rapist, murderer & liar has you convinced he is a good guy. Your just as guilty as Mohamaad.. you say its ok to be 52 years old and rape a 9year old child. You say its ok to fondle a child while you soak in a tub of her menstrual blood. You say its ok to murder the innocent because they dont share your beliefs. You say its ok to be a liar. You say its ok to be a rapist. You do not believe in GOD's only Son. YOU ARE GUILTY and WILL BE JUDGED.

Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

You will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You have been warned.. you have been shown the truth.. You have been shown the way to Salvation through Jesus Christ. You shun them all. So YOU are guilty and are self condemned. YOU are an enemy of GOD.

In spite of all this, you keep on sinning; in spite of the wonders of Jesus Christ, you do not believe.

Surely God will crush the heads of his enemies, the hairy crowns of those who go on in their sins.

I tell you that you will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word you have spoken."You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but you love darkness instead of light because your deeds are evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. JESUS is the LIGHT. Whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God. Whoever hears His word and believes GOD who sent Him has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come outthose who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; Jesus judges and His judgment is just, for He seeks not to please himself but Him who sent Him.

Time is short.. Some will be Saved.

With Love,
- Jefell

getshook .com

you didn't answer my questions i think you don't have answers

16. Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.
17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
18. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
20. She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
21. He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."
22. So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.
23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree: She cried (in her anguish): "Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!"
24. But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee;
25. "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee.
26. "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to ((Allah)) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into not talk with any human being'"
27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
28. "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
29. But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"
30. He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
31. "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
32. "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
33. "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!
34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
36. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.
37. But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a Momentous Day! 38. How plainly will they see and hear, the Day that they will appear before Us! but the unjust today are in error manifest!
Surah 19. Mary

Islam_mulia · Jun 7, 2008

Montalban said:
Firstly, why is it that Moslems keep jumping back to tu quoque argument?

I see that you have twice avoided my question as to where your scriptures or christian traditions teach you that early child marriage is wrong and that those men who practiced them are sinful?

Obviously, Muslims would like to know why a Christian like you, who claimed early Christian writers did not know how to counter Islam, would cry that Muhammad (pbuh) commited something wrong by marrying Aishah at 9 but Jesus, Paul and Christian fathers did not say anything at all about the sin of early marriage?

Montalban said:
Secondly, there's a great many things that I'm told I should do, or should not do, that's not in the Bible... though this is off-topic.

Are you saying now that when you argue over Muhammad (pbuh) marrying Aisha you are not wearing your Christian cap, but some 21st century modernist belief? If that is so, could it be because your Christian faith (whether scriptures or tradition) do not teach you that it is wrong to marry women at 9, hence use the non-religious cap??

Why are you evading my question, Montalban???

um hamza · Jun 7, 2008

THE SEA SET ON FIRE

And by the sea kept filled (or it will be fire kindled on the Day of Resurrection).

(Surat At-Tur (the Mount):6)

By: Dr. / Zaghloul El-Naggar

This Quranic verse also comes in the context of an oath to emphasize the special significance of the subject matter by which the oath is given, as Allah (all glory be to Him) is definitely above the need to give such an oath. Now, what is the special significance of the ocean that is set on fire? Both water and fire were never thought to co-exist, as water quiches fire, and fire sets water to boiling and evaporation. How then can an ocean full of water be set on fire 7 Such contradiction has driven early commentators on the Glorious Quran to suggest that this could only happen on the Last Day, depending on another Quranic verse where such event is explicitly described

"And when the seas become as blazing Fire or overflow."

(Surat At-Takwir (Wound Round and Lost its Light):6).

Nevertheless, the context in which the oathAnd by the sea kept filled (or it will be fire kindled on the Day of Resurrection).

"And 5 preceding realities are all in our present-day world, and hence another linguistic meaning for the adjective al-masjour other than ~~ set on fire was earnestly searched for. Of the linguistic meanings derived from such an adjective is full of water to a limit that does not allow any further transgression on the nearby continental masses which is correct, because the largest quantity of fresh water today (77% of all water on land) is entrapped in the form of ice on the two polar regions as well as in the form of ice-caps to highly elevated mountains. Such a great mass of ice only needs an increase of 4O~5O C above the average summer temperatures to melt, and in such case, this melt can raise the water level in present-day seas and oceans by more than 100 m, which is enough to drown most of the present-day plains where the current civilizations mostly flourish, Nevertheless, Earth Scientists have recently discovered that some of the present-day seas and oceans (such as both the Red Sea and the Arabian Sea, the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans) are actually set on fire, while others (such as the Mediterranean, the Black and the Caspian Seas) are not. As mentioned above, more than 64,000 km of mid-ocean ridges have - so far- been mapped around mid-ocean rift valleys.

These are basically composed of volcanic basaltic rocks that have been pouring out from the oceanic rift zones (at temperatures of about 1000 0C or even more, to build up the mid-oceanic ridges and spread laterally, constructing new slabs of the oceanic crust on both sides of the rift zones. Mid-oceanic volcanism evolves from fissure volcanism that emanates from the mid-oceanic rift systems where the oceanic crust is rifted and the opposite sides of the rift zone are pushed aside by the emanating magma.

Basaltic flows and eruptions, fed from elongated secondary magma chambers below the center of the mid-oceanic ridge, pour out along the ridge axis. Sea-floor basalts from the surface of the oceanic crust, which is about 7 km thick (on the average) normally consist of: 0-1km of sediments (top) 1km of pillow lava basalts 5km of gabbro sills fed by dikes (bottom) Post-eruptive phenomena that can result from interaction of phereatic waters with buried hot rocks include the following:

1- Hot springs, which are formed when phreatic water is heated and mineralized in contact with hot rocks.

2- Geysers, which are periodic eruptions of boiling hot water (2000 C or even more) due to circulation with superheated waters at depth which are in direct or indirect contact with hot rocks (1000 0C or even more).

3- Fumaroles, which are gaseous exhalations of water vapour, C02, CO, SO2, H25, HCI, and HF (in order of abundance).

4- Solfataras, which are fumaroles rich in sulfur compounds. Most of the present-day oceanic volcanic activity has been going on for the past 20-30 million years, although some have persisted in their activity for 100 million years or even more (e.g. the Canary Islands). During such long periods of activity, some volcanoes have been carried away for several hundred kilometers from the constantly renewed plate edge. Completing such drifting activity, volcanic cones become out of reach of the magma body that used to feed them, and hence fade out and die. The current floor of the Pacific Ocean contains a great number of submerged, subdued volcanic craters (guyots), besides a large number of violently active volcanoes (e.g. the Ring of Fire). From the above-mentioned discussion it is obvious that all seas and oceans that experience sea-floor spreading are actually set on fire, while closing seas and oceans are not. Such fire is emanating from very hot basaltic flows and other magmatic activities pouring out from the rift valley systems that rupture the Earths lithosphere.

Such ruptures run for tens of thousands of kilometers across the globe and in all directions to a depth of 65-150 km where it connects the extremely hot, plastic, semi-molten outermost mantle layer (Asthenosphere) with certain ocean bottoms that became actually set on fire.

This most striking fact of our planet was not known until the very late sixties and early seventies of this century.

The explicit Quranic notion to such a very striking, but deeply hidden fact of our seas and oceans is a clear testimony that this Glorious Book cannot be but the word of The Creator, in its Divine purity.

elwill · Jun 7, 2008

Montalban said:
*sigh*
http://www.islamicvoice.com/august.98/marriage.htm#EAR

thank you for the link
so what? nothing change , we allready said that it is permitted in relegious point of view , God not prohibit it in islam nor christianity
where in this topic scholars preach the muslims to marry in this age ?

from the same site scholar said

To say that the marriage is valid is not to say that people should go ahead and make such marriages. There may be certain circumstances, which make it desirable or advisable that a very young girl should be married away in this manner but this must not be taken as the normal situation.
In marriage, the normal thing is that people should marry when they are of marriageable age. That does not include girls of nine or ten years of age, although some girls may attain puberty that early.

Montalban · Jun 7, 2008

Islam_mulia said:
I see that you have twice avoided my question as to where your scriptures or christian traditions teach you that early child marriage is wrong and that those men who practiced them are sinful?

I told you it was irrelevant to this discussion. Though I find it interesting that you characteristically simply move on from one mistake to make a new attack... you've dropped that silly argument from silence from John of Damascus - ignoring the point I made about him referring to your religion as a Chrisitan heresy. I don't recall in the years I've discussed things with you you ever acknowleding a mistake.

Islam_mulia said:
Obviously, Muslims would like to know why a Christian like you, who claimed early Christian writers did not know how to counter Islam, would cry that Muhammad commited something wrong by marrying Aishah at 9 but Jesus, Paul and Christian fathers did not say anything at all about the sin of early marriage?

Then start a thread on it

The rest of your post is to repeat your attempts at derailing this thread.

The more times you do this the more people will learn something else about Islam!

Montalban · Jun 7, 2008

elwill said:
thank you for the link
so what? nothing change , we allready said that it is permitted in relegious point of view , God not prohibit it in islam nor christianity
where in this topic scholars preach the muslims to marry in this age ?

*sigh* I've cited it twice. If you think that it was 'already permitted' then why the big deal about seeking my citation?

You still don't have any point

Montalban · Jun 7, 2008

Something to learn about Islam....?

Me: Let's talk about Aisha and her marriage as seen by Moslems today

Moslem: No, let's talk about Mary
Moslem: No, let's talk about Christianity
Moslem: No, let's talk about something else other than Aisha.

We learn something about Islam already!

Montalban · Jun 7, 2008

um hamza said:
And by the sea kept filled (or it will be fire kindled on the Day of Resurrection).

What's this got to do with anything?

elwill · Jun 7, 2008

Montalban said:
Something to learn about Islam....?

Me: Let's talk about Aisha and her marriage as seen by Moslems today

Moslem: No, let's talk about Mary
Moslem: No, let's talk about Christianity
Moslem: No, let's talk about something else other than Aisha.

We learn something about Islam already!

montalban , why you are so angry for marrying in this age , if God dosn't ?
you claim that this practice can't to be from the prophit , how did you know ?

Montalban · Jun 7, 2008

elwill said:
montalban , why you are so angry for marrying in this age , if God dosn't ?

You say your god approves of it, because he does. Circular logic.

If I appear 'angry' to you, it's not anger, it's annoyance...because of the diversionary tactics you guys are involved in

elwill said:
you claim that this practice can't to be from the prophit , how did you know ?

I make no such claim. I know English isn't your first language but continually straw-manning my posts doesn't help.

I'm still waiting to see what your 'obejction' was when you demanded that I post from a Islamic advice site, even though it was a 're-post'.

You've gone several days without a point.

I posted from an Advice site. You guys demand where I show this. I re-post it. And you and Islam_mulia continually re-writing my argument to address what you'd like to have me say.

I'm still waiting for Islam_mulia to acknowledge another of his 'challenges' met when I sited an Islamic site about Muhammed being an example for you guys. Instead he keeps demanding where it says that you MUST marry a 9 year old.

Anyway, I keep responding because others here get to see Islam at work!

Zstar · Jun 7, 2008

um hamza said:
I don't have a definite answer i will ask and answer you in shaa Allah

Thanks! I was wondering about the material in the Koran about his personal life, such as his young wife. What would that have to do with a universal message to all from God?

what do you know about Islam?

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