What do you do with songs with problematic verses?

[Michael Scaman]

I see allot of churches sing 'what a beautiful name it is' that leads off

"....you didn't want to live in heaven without us..." (in some sense true and in some sense not ) Jesus did pray that his servants would be where he was... then again that is about the saved not unsaved and apostolic evangelism in Acts Mars Hill says he doesn't 'need' things from us as does the Psalms where God said 'if I was hungry I wouldn't tell you'

"....so you brought heaven down..." (the word 'so' implies that is the chief reason Jesus came and not the glory of God and turns the song to be more man centered not God centered)

Many people growing up were told God made the world because He was lonely or had some lack but I don't see this in scripture, rather that God's chief end was God's glory

I think a song like that needs more clarity, taking a queue form Luther I would add

" You didn't find, but created that which You see as lovely
Your glory reached down from heaven, and it opened my eyes to see
What a beautiful name it is
What a beautiful name it is
The name of Jesus, Christ my King...."

That would add clarity and move it more God centered away from being man centered
Is it better to try to fix a song, or better to pass it by and find better?

 

[RDKirk]

Change the words as you think necessary in your own mind and otherwise find more significant things to worry yourself about.

 

[Aldebaran]

I see allot of churches sing 'what a beautiful name it is' that leads off

"....you didn't want to live in heaven without us..." (in some sense true and in some sense not ) Jesus did pray that his servants would be where he was... then again that is about the saved not unsaved and apostolic evangelism in Acts Mars Hill says he doesn't 'need' things from us as does the Psalms where God said 'if I was hungry I wouldn't tell you'

"....so you brought heaven down..." (the word 'so' implies that is the chief reason Jesus came and not the glory of God and turns the song to be more man centered not God centered)

Many people growing up were told God made the world because He was lonely or had some lack but I don't see this in scripture, rather that God's chief end was God's glory

I think a song like that needs more clarity, taking a queue form Luther I would add

" You didn't find, but created that which You see as lovely
Your glory reached down from heaven, and it opened my eyes to see
What a beautiful name it is
What a beautiful name it is
The name of Jesus, Christ my King...."

That would add clarity and move it more God centered away from being man centered
Is it better to try to fix a song, or better to pass it by and find better?

Songs are written by people who have their own ideas and interpretations. For a song, I'd do the same as I'd do for denominations that don't reflect what scripture says--just ignore them and move on.

 

[Michael Scaman]

Songs are written by people who have their own ideas and interpretations. For a song, I'd do the same as I'd do for denominations that don't reflect what scripture says--just ignore them and move on.

some are harder to ignore that others.... one song has a great sound to it but says
"the Father became my brother"
I would not see that in the New Testament and it doesn't sound logical
"The word became my brother"
"the Father became my Father"
would both be better

 

[Aldebaran]

some are harder to ignore that others.... one song has a great sound to it but says
"the Father became my brother"
I would not see that in the New Testament and it doesn't sound logical
"The word became my brother"
"the Father became my Father"
would both be better

Oh, I know. But I still think it's just like other denominations teaching similar things. There are actually denominations that think Satan is Christ's brother. All we can do is oppose it and move on, realizing that it's not true and not taught in scripture.

 

[paul1149]

"the Father became my brother"
I would not see that in the New Testament and it doesn't sound logical
"The word became my brother"
"the Father became my Father"
would both be better

That's a good substitution. I would take it on a case basis. Some songs may not be worth the trouble, or if they are well known, the change might confuse the congregation.

 

[curiouskay]

What do you do with songs with problematic verses?

.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,,,Change the station

DESIDERATA - You Are A Child Of The Universe - original version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNq_DTmVCWs

 

[Tree of Life]

I see allot of churches sing 'what a beautiful name it is' that leads off

"....you didn't want to live in heaven without us..." (in some sense true and in some sense not ) Jesus did pray that his servants would be where he was... then again that is about the saved not unsaved and apostolic evangelism in Acts Mars Hill says he doesn't 'need' things from us as does the Psalms where God said 'if I was hungry I wouldn't tell you'

"....so you brought heaven down..." (the word 'so' implies that is the chief reason Jesus came and not the glory of God and turns the song to be more man centered not God centered)

Many people growing up were told God made the world because He was lonely or had some lack but I don't see this in scripture, rather that God's chief end was God's glory

I think a song like that needs more clarity, taking a queue form Luther I would add

" You didn't find, but created that which You see as lovely
Your glory reached down from heaven, and it opened my eyes to see
What a beautiful name it is
What a beautiful name it is
The name of Jesus, Christ my King...."

That would add clarity and move it more God centered away from being man centered
Is it better to try to fix a song, or better to pass it by and find better?

As a worship leader who is choosing songs and leading worship every week...

I simply do not play these songs. I don't really have the permission or the willpower to change them and there are plenty of other great songs out there that could be sung in its place. So I do a lot of digging and research to introduce songs that I really believe are faithful to Scripture.

 

[Monksailor]

There are so many great Christian songs out there if one bothered me I just wouldn't listen to it. As in another thread a few days ago about the problem of unity in the church I point out again Romans 14. In there we are told many things about God making allowances for division among the saints; one example given is that one man can treat all days equally of a week and another one day special and both can be "right" according to the Lord if their intentions were right. If you are forced to listen to it at church in worship and praise, for example, you can choose to participate knowing that the one who wrote the lyrics probably had good intentions or the one who chose it for worship had good intentions of the heart to honor and glorify the Lord, or you can stand or even sit without singing the song in rejection of it, and another option is to address your problems with the song with the worship leader, pastor, and/or board or radio station president.

 

[mnorian]

NM

 

[Monksailor]

I first heard "Mary Did You Know" sung by Kathy Troccoli. No one else I have heard even M.E. the original singer or Kathy M. sing it any more effective (slow and reflective and as sung to one in heaven) than her, IMO. The other two and others sing it too jazzed up, speedy, or with a vibrato which sounds more like a nervous, quivering shake. The lyrics writer, Mark Lowry hosted a show with Kathy Troccoli at one time "The Mark and Kathy Show." Maybe what I heard on the radio had somehow come from that show. I cannot find this song sung by K.T. through my Google or Yahoo search engines. I do not like all that I have found and really yearn to hear Kathy Troccoli's version. Anyone know where I can find it?

 

[mnorian]

Mod hat on

Thread moved from
P&W Music which is non-debate
to
Worship Ministry which allows debate
for a better chance to answer this question.
Carry on.
Tunefully.
​

 

[Dave-W]

As a worship leader who is choosing songs and leading worship every week...
I simply do not play these songs.

That is the best option.

There was a chorus in the mid-west WOF congregations making the rounds that I refused to play/sing. It was a work of pure gnosticism.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Change the words as you think necessary in your own mind and otherwise find more significant things to worry yourself about.

Our church has done that from time to time -- change a word here or there in a song. It works well and avoids burning down the forest because of one thorn bush.

 

[WolfGate]

Recognizing that you slightly confused some of the words of the song which is significant in your arguments that follow - regardless, if a song concerns your understanding of theological issues, then you can do a couple of things. First would be find another song. Between hymns, praise/worship, gospel, etc. there are sure to be many that don't conflict with your understanding. The other, if it is minor, would be to change a word or two. As Phil 1:21 said, that can allow you to get around that thorn bush.

Personally, when selecting worship songs, I tended to avoid those that were not clearly aligned with our understanding, regardless of how popular the song was. Even if we changed a word, it would encourage our body to find that song (if they liked it musically) and to then be influenced by the concerning theology.

 

[RDKirk]

Recognizing that you slightly confused some of the words of the song which is significant in your arguments that follow - regardless, if a song concerns your understanding of theological issues, then you can do a couple of things. First would be find another song. Between hymns, praise/worship, gospel, etc. there are sure to be many that don't conflict with your understanding. The other, if it is minor, would be to change a word or two. As Phil 1:21 said, that can allow you to get around that thorn bush.

Personally, when selecting worship songs, I tended to avoid those that were not clearly aligned with our understanding, regardless of how popular the song was. Even if we changed a word, it would encourage our body to find that song (if they liked it musically) and to then be influenced by the concerning theology.

Wow, your own indoctrination must be pretty weak if that can happen.

 

[WolfGate]

Wow, your own indoctrination must be pretty weak if that can happen.

RDKirk - don't overthink it. Concerns with song lyrics are rarely related to essentials. Most songs we wouldn't use are either poorly written in general. I was addressing the OP's premise that they liked a song musically but had lyrical concerns and how to handle.

 

[Dave-W]

Wow, your own indoctrination must be pretty weak if that can happen.

Not necessarily.

Have you ever compared "Days of Elijah" as done by the author Robin Mark and as done by Paul Wilbur? Mark wrote a breakstrain section where "There's no God like Jehovah" is repeated a dozen or more times. Wilbur left that off because in the Messianic community the term "Jehovah" is problematic and most of the people would just not sing it.

And it works fine without that section anyway.

 

[RDKirk]

Not necessarily.

Have you ever compared "Days of Elijah" as done by the author Robin Mark and as done by Paul Wilbur? Mark wrote a breakstrain section where "There's no God like Jehovah" is repeated a dozen or more times. Wilbur left that off because in the Messianic community the term "Jehovah" is problematic and most of the people would just not sing it.

And it works fine without that section anyway.

You did not give an example of anyone losing his doctrinal stance because of a Christian pop song, which is what I was responding to. If that happens, the training was weak.

You only gave an example of what I suggested in my initial post in this topic.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I was always very strict with my own music selection to keep separate secular from worship songs for the simple reason that I often depended on those songs to come to mind in various settings. Often I could see the errors of my ways thru them. Just as often I would see the error in the song and remove it completely from any playlist.