What do you believe and why?

[RedPonyDriver]

The universe is expanding...and by the rate of expansion, theoretical physicists were able to work backwards to "the big bang", that is, the singularity that became our universe (see Steven Hawking's A Brief History of Time for a better explanation).

One of Newton's laws states that matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed...so therefore somehow in some form, all the energy in the universe has existed in some form or another.

Now...did God cause the big bang? Probably (at least from my POV). It boggled my mind when I see the pictures from Hubble of the beauty of our universe.

Maybe someday our questions will be answered...until then...I'm more of the camp of who knows and who cares.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

So from all of your responses, this is what I get from this thread.

"I have not a single idea how everything came to be, but God doesn't exist"

Doesn't that contradict itself?

I think you are missing the point. People have many idea's but the definitive 'does' or 'doesn't, doesn't rely on those ideas, because they cannot be proven. You yourself have given testimony to your own conversion which formed the basis of your belief, you confirm that belief by then looking for things that cement that belief, one being the source to the universe.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

I think you are missing the point. People have many idea's but the definitive 'does' or 'doesn't, doesn't rely on those ideas, because they cannot be proven. You yourself have given testimony to your own conversion which formed the basis of your belief, you confirm that belief by then looking for things that cement that belief, one being the source to the universe.

So if you don't believe in God, have you proven He doesn't exist? In any way shape or form? Because if you can't prove the origins of the universe how can you disprove God?

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

The universe is expanding...and by the rate of expansion, theoretical physicists were able to work backwards to "the big bang", that is, the singularity that became our universe (see Steven Hawking's A Brief History of Time for a better explanation).

One of Newton's laws states that matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed...so therefore somehow in some form, all the energy in the universe has existed in some form or another.

Now...did God cause the big bang? Probably (at least from my POV). It boggled my mind when I see the pictures from Hubble of the beauty of our universe.

Maybe someday our questions will be answered...until then...I'm more of the camp of who knows and who cares.

You believe in God, so you can safely trust to know the answers one day. The question was for non believers and their views of the source of everything.

 

[Davian]

So from all of your responses, this is what I get from this thread.

"I have not a single idea how everything came to be, but God doesn't exist"

Doesn't that contradict itself?

I do not know how you arrived at that. Perhaps you are projecting, or making this personal. Let's look at the first part:

"I have not a single idea how everything came to be..."

I would say that this is a gross misrepresentation of scientific knowledge, even at the laymen's level. Read some Dawkins (on biology), Hawking (cosmology), Dennett (philosophy of mind), Robert M. Hazen (abiogenesis).

And the second part:

"...God doesn't exist".

I do not say this, and I do not see that 'science' says this. This is in no way intended to be flippant, but as someone that does not really think of gods as anything other than characters in books, my immediate response to your statement would be: "God who?".

 

[Archaeopteryx]

So if you don't believe in God, have you proven He doesn't exist? In any way shape or form? Because if you can't prove the origins of the universe how can you disprove God?

This is an argument from ignorance. That we don't know how the universe came to be does not entail that Goddidit.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So if you don't believe in God, have you proven He doesn't exist? In any way shape or form? Because if you can't prove the origins of the universe how can you disprove God?

I don't see what "disproving" god has to do with anything. We freely admit that we cannot prove the origin of the universe. I (and I would imagine most of the atheists here) would also freely admit that we cannot disprove god.

But why should we to begin with? It's not as if god has been proven. Imagine if I told you that somewhere outside the edge of our universe is a large and incredibly simple universe making machine. It just cranks out universes like a bubble machine making bubbles. Would the fact that you cannot disprove this machine exists make it any more credible? Would it make it a more logical argument?

I'm sure you realize the answer is "no" it wouldn't be more credible or logical. In fact, you would probably say that there's no reason for you to believe it exists until I can provide some sort of evidence for its existence... wouldn't you?

 

[Eyes wide Open]

So if you don't believe in God, have you proven He doesn't exist? In any way shape or form? Because if you can't prove the origins of the universe how can you disprove God?

If I said to you my definition of God was 'an awareness of being' and that I have proven to myself that it exists and formed a belief in this awareness of being. I haven't proven that it created the universe, nor can I.

 

[Froesler]

The source of the Universe is God, because, according to Aquinas, God has to be the first motion in the Universe. There's no motion before God.

Theories like the Big Bang never explain the creation or the source but what happened to the Universe right after its creation. The Big Bang only explains how the universe is expanding, not how it was created.

Blessings.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The source of the Universe is God, because, according to Aquinas, God has to be the first motion in the Universe. There's no motion before God.

Theories like the Big Bang never explain the creation or the source but what happened to the Universe right after its creation. The Big Bang only explains how the universe is expanding, not how it was created.

Blessings.

How does Goddidit explain how the universe was created?

 

[Froesler]

How does Goddidit explain how the universe was created?

The only logical explanation we know about the origin of the universe is creation.

You can't logically assume something can create itself.

 

[Davian]

The universe is expanding...and by the rate of expansion, theoretical physicists were able to work backwards to "the big bang", that is, the singularity that became our universe (see Steven Hawking's A Brief History of Time for a better explanation).

One of Newton's laws states that matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed...so therefore somehow in some form, all the energy in the universe has existed in some form or another.

Inflation theory (cosmology) allows for little to no energy to be present at the instantiation of the cosmos, without violating the laws of thermodynamics.

Now...did God cause the big bang? Probably (at least from my POV). It boggled my mind when I see the pictures from Hubble of the beauty of our universe.

Maybe someday our questions will be answered...until then...I'm more of the camp of who knows and who cares.

Indeed, but it makes for interesting reading.

 

[Davian]

You believe in God, so you can safely trust to know the answers one day. The question was for non believers and their views of the source of everything.

On what do you base this? How do you know they can "safely trust to know the answers one day"? Has this God of yours ever delivered these answers, to anyone?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The only logical explanation we know about the origin of the universe is creation.

You can't logically assume something can create itself.

How do you know that the universe was created? The term 'creation' begs the question for a creator.

 

[Davian]

The only logical explanation we know about the origin of the universe is creation.

You can't logically assume something can create itself.

Personally, I would refrain from assuming anything about the conditions at or before (if "before" is applicable) the instantiation of the cosmos.

Are you promoting a god-of-the-gaps? God gives the cosmos a push, and then hangs around to fill the gaps in scientific knowledge?

 

[Froesler]

How do you know that the universe was created? The term 'creation' begs the question for a creator.

Ok, we have three logical possibilities:

Caused
Uncaused
Self-caused


Now, we can affirm that whatever began to exist has a cause, in the same logical basis that we assume 1+1 is equal to 2.

· The universe began to exist.
· Therefore, the universe has a cause.

The universe can't logically be uncaused or self-caused, therefore, the universe was caused by an uncaused being who has inherently all the potentialities to create everything possible inside the universe, including human intelligence.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Ok, we have three logical possibilities:

Caused
Uncaused
Self-caused


Now, we can affirm that whatever began to exist has a cause, in the same logical basis that we assume 1+1 is equal to 2.

· The universe began to exist.
· Therefore, the universe has a cause.

And how does one go from "the universe has a cause" to Goddidit? It seems like a non sequitur.

The universe can't logically be uncaused or self-caused,

Why? You have no problem considering God uncaused, so why not the universe?

therefore, the universe was caused by an uncaused being who has inherently all the potentialities to create everything possible inside the universe, including human intelligence.

Again, your argument simply leaves us with a cause to the universe's existence. The leap from a cause to a deity is a non sequitur.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ok, we have three logical possibilities:

Caused
Uncaused
Self-caused


Now, we can affirm that whatever began to exist has a cause, in the same logical basis that we assume 1+1 is equal to 2.

· The universe began to exist.
· Therefore, the universe has a cause.

The universe can't logically be uncaused or self-caused, therefore, the universe was caused by an uncaused being who has inherently all the potentialities to create everything possible inside the universe, including human intelligence.

How do you reach the conclusion that the "universe began to exist"? Sure, it began to exist in its current form at some point...but that doesn't mean it didn't exist in another form prior to that.

That's knowledge we simply don't have.

 

[Froesler]

And how does one go from "the universe has a cause" to Goddidit? It seems like a non sequitur.

We call this cause God. It has the same properties God has, God can be logically proven.

''The universe can't logically be uncaused or self-caused.''

Why?

You can't logically assume that. Feel free to try it.

Again, your argument simply leaves us with a cause to the universe's existence. The leap from a cause to a deity is a non sequitur.

You don't seem to undertand very well:

What is God
What is metaphysics
What is logic

I'm not proving the Bible and all the miracles here, I'm just proving God exists.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

We call this cause God.

Why call it "God"? You haven't established that it has any of the properties usually ascribed to a deity.

It has the same properties God has,

How do you know that? Your argument simply concluded with the universe having a cause. It said nothing about the nature or identity of the cause.

You can't logically assume that. Feel free to try it.

Why not? You assume that about your God, so can't we make the same assumption about the universe?

You don't seem to undertand very well:

What is God
What is metaphysics
What is logic

I'm not proving the Bible and all the miracles here, I'm just proving God exists.

Again, the leap from a cause to Goddidit is a non sequitur. You haven't argued for why the cause must be a deity.