What do you all think the wife's role is?

[suzie]

Reformist-

Wow. Context. Why didn't I think of that?

Look suzie, I understand that you disagree with me. That's fine. Feel free to continue doing so but don't assume that I didn't come to my beliefs by reading in context. I've seen your views on this and other things and one thing I wouldn't accuse you of doing is reading the Gospel in context.

Hmmm, well, despite this comment, mine was not meant to be pointing fingers, it wasnt pointed to think you werent able to read the bible in context, it was to point to the rest of my posting in regard to the passage structure that I went on to explain......however, this remark gives insight.

Of course not. Why would anyone think such a thing?

Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For THE HUSBAND IS HEAD OF THE WIFE, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

I can see why the issue of whether or not God ordained authority of husbands over wives is confusing to you. It's only explicitly stated here

It depends on what context the word "head" would mean to this audience wouldnt it?

The submission is to be mutual however. Christ is authority.

No one has contested this suzie. You act as if I'm saying that wives aren't supposed to submit to Christ. I'm not. They are. It doesn't diminish the fact that God set up the family with man having leadership.

I am not saying that wives are not to submit to Christ. Men are supposed to submit to Christ as well. All Christians are to submit to one another in the Lord. God never set up the family with man having leadership. God set up the family with husband and wife becoming "one" flesh, mutual intimate partnership. God is the authority.

Huh? What are you talking about. This section on the relationship of the immediate family, i.e., husbands and wives, parents and children starts at verse 22 and goes to verse 33. To be more accurate, the overall message of authority in relationships goes from verses 5:22-6:9.

Ephesians 5:15-23 forms only one sentance in the Greek. Translators made sentances and paragraphs where there were none to make it easier reading for the modern ear. However, by doing this, they have also separated ideas that were meant to be fused together. Pauls long sentance hinges on the command "Be filled with the Spirit" The verb "submit" doesnt even appear in the original v22. It really says "...wives to your own husbands...." So, to find the verb you had to go to the previous sentance v21 in the text of mutual submission. So, then, that creates a context of wives submitting to their husbands but in the context of the same way that their husbands were to submit to their wives and all were to submit to one another in the Body of Christ.

 

[Brittney Moody]

I Peter 3:1 is the scripture that talks about wives being submissive to thier husbands just as slaves are to their masters. See people think it sounds so horrible because of the way that society looks on servants and masters, but servants would love thier masters and masters had rules too about how to treat their servants. If you read Ephesians 5:22-33 you will find only just a few of the many scriptures that touch upon wives submitting to thier husbands. verse 23 says that the husand i the head of the wife. Women are not second to men but they are called to accept the husband's leadership.

 

[Reformationist]

Reformist-



Hmmm, well, despite this comment, mine was not meant to be pointing fingers, it wasnt pointed to think you werent able to read the bible in context, it was to point to the rest of my posting in regard to the passage structure that I went on to explain......however, this remark gives insight.




It depends on what context the word "head" would mean to this audience wouldnt it?




I am not saying that wives are not to submit to Christ. Men are supposed to submit to Christ as well. All Christians are to submit to one another in the Lord. God never set up the family with man having leadership. God set up the family with husband and wife becoming "one" flesh, mutual intimate partnership. God is the authority.




Ephesians 5:15-23 forms only one sentance in the Greek. Translators made sentances and paragraphs where there were none to make it easier reading for the modern ear. However, by doing this, they have also separated ideas that were meant to be fused together. Pauls long sentance hinges on the command "Be filled with the Spirit" The verb "submit" doesnt even appear in the original v22. It really says "...wives to your own husbands...." So, to find the verb you had to go to the previous sentance v21 in the text of mutual submission. So, then, that creates a context of wives submitting to their husbands but in the context of the same way that their husbands were to submit to their wives and all were to submit to one another in the Body of Christ.

Okay suzie. Good luck with that.

 

[suzie]

Luck has nothing to do with it. It is Scriptural.

 

[Reformationist]

Luck has nothing to do with it. It is Scriptural.

Okay. Well, good luck with what you think is Scriptural.

 

[suzie]

I would suppose that this is your way of having nothing further to add to this topic.

Any time you would like to know more about this, I would be glad to discuss this again.

 

[Reformationist]

I would suppose that this is your way of having nothing further to add to this topic.

What else can I add? It would be pointless to sit here and argue. You and I disagree. It's impossible for me to make you see things as I do. Would you rather this turned into an argument? I think this discussion has run it's course and I don't see any value in restating what you've already disagreed with, do you?

Any time you would like to know more about this, I would be glad to discuss this again.

LOL! Yeah, okay. Listen suzie, I don't think you've got a clue as to an accurate biblical interpretation of the roles in marriage so why in the world would I come to you to learn about it?

 

[Miss Shelby]

suzie,

I have been following the exchange between you and Reformationist with some interest. I am curious to know, and you do not have to answer me if you don't want to as this is a personal question, but are you married?

Michelle

 

[suzie]

Shelby-

Yes, I have been married for 26 yrs. We are both Christians and are marriage mentors within our church. We also teach a young marrieds class..... We were approached to do this we did not seek it out.

My husband and I are leaders within our home as well as within our church. We invest much time to our home, marriage, and our walk with the Lord. Despite what reformist believes, my position on marriage as well as women within the context of the church isnt just something I invented, but instead the result of much study, biblical research and seeking God's discernment within the Scriptures.

 

[Reformationist]

Despite what reformist believes, my position on marriage as well as women within the context of the church isnt just something I invented, but instead the result of much study, biblical research and seeking God's discernment within the Scriptures.

Despite what Reformist believes? I disagree with your beliefs on a womans role in marriage but I have not once said that your beliefs are "something you invented."

For someone who claims to hold such a position of authority in your church you sure are quick to assume the worst about a fellow Christian.

If you are confused about anything I think I'm guessing the best place to come for clarification would be me, not your assumptions.

God bless

 

[suzie]

Okay. Well, good luck with what you think is Scriptural

LOL! Yeah, okay. Listen suzie, I don't think you've got a clue as to an accurate biblical interpretation of the roles in marriage so why in the world would I come to you to learn about it?

I've seen your views on this and other things and one thing I wouldn't accuse you of doing is reading the Gospel in context.

For someone who claims to hold such a position of authority in your church you sure are quick to assume the worst about a fellow Christian.

 

[neveragainindarkness]

A husband and wife should be thier own person as God has made them to be. The only authority they shoudl ultimately bow to is God.

A wife is to be submissive to her husband as stated in Eph 5:22. Actually, reading to verse 33 in chapter 5 is a good idea too. It makes everything much more clear.

A woman needs to also be careful as to what she "obeys" of her husband. If he requests things that are disrespectful or just plain wrong...she should and I believe does have the right to not do them. A wife shoudl take God's requests to heart first before her husbands. At least this is how I see it.

 

[wonder111]

A husband and wife should be thier own person as God has made them to be. The only authority they shoudl ultimately bow to is God.

A wife is to be submissive to her husband as stated in Eph 5:22. Actually, reading to verse 33 in chapter 5 is a good idea too. It makes everything much more clear.

A woman needs to also be careful as to what she "obeys" of her husband. If he requests things that are disrespectful or just plain wrong...she should and I believe does have the right to not do them. A wife shoudl take God's requests to heart first before her husbands. At least this is how I see it.

exactly! If a woman obey's the husband when she knows it's not God's will, she is choosing her husband before God.

 

[suzie]

A wife is to be submissive to her husband as stated in Eph 5:22. Actually, reading to verse 33 in chapter 5 is a good idea too. It makes everything much more clear.

In Ephesians 5:21 it says we are to submit to one another as to the Lord.

Ephesians 5:22 in the original Greek doesnt say the word "submit" at all.

In extending to the end of the chapter and into chpt 6 we see that Paul has borrowed from the household moral code that was in place at this time. He wasnt making new formations of relationships, but instead radically breaking the cultural code for this time by instead of instructing the patriarchial leader of the household in how to deal with his family, he was instead showing how he was to love, be restrained, and treat others with equality.

Jesus' ministry demonstrated uncompromisingly his rejection of "power over others" as valid in the new creation. Ancient household codes never called on the husband to love as a duty, only to make their wives submit. Although Paul upholds the wifely submission of this culture, he qualifies it by placing it under the context of mutual submission....husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church, by willingly laying down their lives for them. At the same time, he relates Christianity to the standards of his culture, he subverts his cultures values by going far beyond them. Both husbands and wives must submit and love. Instead of stressing how he should rule her, he stresses how he should love her. Paul calls on husbands to love them and be with them in self giving, nurturing, and serving love. That is the way Christ loved the church. Husbands, like wives, are to be "imitators of Christ" (Ephesians 5:2) It is then not about obedience, but respect and humility as self giving servanthood. It becomes a matter of unity rather than authority.

 

[Reformationist]

I'm sure I'm going to regret this but, what was your point in post #31 suzie?

 

[neveragainindarkness]

Well, ok, maybe we should go with something as to not cause more debate. Ideally, a wife would be this : Proverbs 31:10-31. The virtuous woman. Could we not all wish in our innermost being to become more like this woman? as a wife, mother, or woman in general?

To me, these verses are more powerful then anything else describing what a wife/mother/woman should do or obey. These verses simply give an example to follow. Much like we all aspire to be as Christ. Maybe this would help to answer the original question better.

 

[suzie]

Yes, the composite of wife in Proverbs shows many qualities that contain the principles of living in fear of the Lord. Wisdom, respect, care for others and her family, financial discernment to name a few.