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As you carefully reread this text, think of your narrow response to me.Quote the whole chapter in Isaiah, even fact in the previous ones not just one text, in that case don't go to church/eat food/ wear nice clothes/have a decent church programme just in case its pleasurable for you......
From these words alone you admit that there is a division of belief in what amounts to the most basic doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist church. You have also grouped yourself with the desenters. A first year law student would love to have such a statement if they were ask to prove that you do not subscribe to the teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church."Even if you could get us all to agree on the Sabbath doctrine, there are still so many varying ideas amongst us Progs in regards to it's nature, how binding it is, how it is to be observed, New/Old covenant issues, Moral/Ceremonial issues, Christ the True Sabbath Rest, seal of God/mark of the beast, etc.
First point: Your words Night; From these words alone you admit that there is a division of belief in what amounts to the most basic doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist church. You have also grouped yourself with the desenters. A first year law student would love to have such a statement if they were ask to prove that you do not subscribe to the teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Second point: I have not said, or infered, that you have not, nor do not, keep the Sabbath. As for how you might choose to "keep" the Sabbath that would be entirely your decision. ( I hope that all who have posted to, or read, this thread will take note.)
Now with the above being said I should say another thing. I have had up close and peonal experience with church disfellowshiping procedures from the local church leval to the "hallowd" conference rooms of the GC. I should also say that all decisions are not necessarily correct, no matter which way the decission is made.
If just a small amount of the energy and time expended here were to be used in wittnessing I belive that a great amount of good would be accompished for the kingdom of heaven. What will be everyone's choice as to how they will spend their time and energy in the future?
Respectfully, you brother in Christ,
Doc
I find the tone of a lot of your posts distasteful.
By the way this has really been bothering me their is spelled "ei" not "ie". Wow, that is a load off my chest.
A. The question was what progressives and traditionals AS groups believe. Night answered that. You then criticized him personally. Night did not say he rejects the Sabbath.
B. You say :
Second point: I have not said, or infered, that you have not, nor do not, keep the Sabbath.
Yet here is what you said before:
With this answer you have quite clearly stated that you are not converted to the direct teachings and doctrines of the Bible nor do you accept the teachings and doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist church.
If you, or any other person that has trouble accepting any part of the Sabbath truth, has a sincere desire to understand the Sabbath truth, I would be happy to study with you.
Sounds like inference to me.
C. Then you scolded us for doing what you do--posting here. Why are you a trainee moderator here if this arguing, which you engage in, is evil?
If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all.Crimson, I am not here to impress anyone or win any friends, least of all friends from a subgroup that have all but ruined the denomination I belong to in thier resistance of progress.
I tell it like it is. Please also note that the only Trads I meet with an aggressive approach are the outspoken, beligerent ones who come after me.
They know who they are.
Daryl,When I first came into the SDA Church, I don't remember the existence of all these labels, particularly the two predominate ones here, namely Progressives and Traditionals.
Even though I am aware of the various mindsets within the SDA Church, I personally do not like labels myself.
Since, however, they are so predominate here, even to the extent of having their own separate sub-forums, what do Progressives and Traditionals have in common theologically?
For starters, do both Progressives and Traditionals accept the seventh-day Sabbath?
Night,Way to avoid the issues and allow your bias to show in big, bright neon letters MVA. It's clear you are going to give Doc a free pass on this and award him a clean slate all across the board in this matter, so there's not much more I have to say to you on this issue.
BTW, how could you possibly know the 'tone' of anything I type on a computer? Unless I intentionally type something in a certain way so there is no doubt, that doesn't even make sense. So many Trads love to believe that I am some raving lunatic behind the keyboard, shaking my fist and yelling.Not even close to the truth! I am calm, reserved and completely articulate when I type in this thread, just as I would be if I were speaking face to face. Trust me, if my tone were 'hostile' there would be no question. There would be capital letters and large font galore.
But of course, some will just believe what they want.
I am well aware of the correct spelling of 'their'. I choose to spell it the way I want.
Doc, I personally find your words the most disheartening and disrespectful that I've read in the forum so far. This brings great sadness for me.From the answers given to Daryl's question it would seem that none of the responders has ever done a through study of the Sabbath and all associated points. Also from those answers I am dumbfounded why any of you would want to use the name Seventh-day Adventist, or any part of it, in any way.
Night's response would seem to indicate a very good reason why there is not, and will never be, any theological agreement between the two camps.
Nights response:With this answer you have quite clearly stated that you are not converted to the direct teachings and doctrines of the Bible nor do you accept the teachings and doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist church. Ergo; By any legal standard you are not a Seventh-day Adventist no matter if you have at some point been baptized and still have your name on the church membership rolls.
With your own words you have also admited that you get great delight and enjoyment from infuriating and frustrating traditional Seventh-day adventist.
Sorry Night, but this one old timer that you can do neither of the above, with or to. The things you and your fellows question or refute, I have shown to unbelivers, using only the Bible, to be true and irefutable. Has everyone that has been shown the truth accepted it? Certainly not! There have been some that have admited it but still refused to accept it. Some have cursed me and walked away. But praise the Lord some have accepted the trurh and continue to this day to seek more truth so that they will be ready when Christ returns, not just getting ready for His return.
If you, or any other person that has trouble accepting any part of the Sabbath truth, has a sincere desire to understand the Sabbath truth, I would be happy to study with you. If however all that is wanted is an opportunity for debate, rather than looking for truth, then we both would be wasting our time. My offer is made in good faith. Should you, or anyone else, choose to accept my offer I will be more than happy to study with you.
Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
I'm thinking that BOTH being children of God counts.Isn't that like asking what do Sadducees and Pharisees have in common?
The wheat and tare shall grow together to the very end. I don't agree with those who try to rid the progs from our church. That isn't our job.
Amazing. Immediately presumes himself to be wheat and automatically assumes his Adventist subgroup are all wheat. Amazing. And here I thought only God determined such a thing.
But in this forum, it's very different. Because the progs aren't as vocal in the real church setting as they are in the internet setting
Baloney. That is where you are flat-out wrong. I make all of my concerns very well known in both my own local church and any SDA church I find myself visiting, whether it be Sabbath School, prayer meeting or Bible study. I also know many Progs who are very outspoken about thier views in the local churches as well.
since there is no accountability here.
Yeah, okay. If you presume I have not discussed and addressed the same issues in local churches as I have here, you are sadly mistaken.
BTW, we are accountable to God for everything we say here, not you, not the Trads, not a pastor and not the GC. So save the ominous fear-mongering proclamations.
I don't know what sort of Nazi theological ethnic-cleansing system you envision our denomination to be based on, but it is not nearly an accurate reflection of the general SDA landscape in most churches I have been to.
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