What Do Progressives Have In Common Theologically With Traditionals?

DarylFawcett said:

When I first came into the SDA Church, I don't remember the existence of all these labels, particularly the two predominate ones here, namely Progressives and Traditionals.

Even though I am aware of the various mindsets within the SDA Church, I personally do not like labels myself.

Since, however, they are so predominate here, even to the extent of having their own separate sub-forums, what do Progressives and Traditionals have in common theologically?

For starters, do both Progressives and Traditionals accept the seventh-day Sabbath?

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DarylFawcett said:

For starters, do both Progressives and Traditionals accept the seventh-day Sabbath?

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"Daryl, your attempts to pigeon-hole and box us all neatly into categories will not work. There are a variety of different schools of thought in Progressive Adventism. We do not all think alike nor believe the same things. Unlike the Trads, there is no pre-determined, programmed destination to the search for doctrinal truth with us. We do not take comfort in scores of people believing in the exact same thing like you guys do-we delight in variety and individuality in regards to our spiritual journeys. We know it infuriates and frustrates you guys that we are not confined to the SDA box limitations, and that fact is what brings us joy.

Even if you could get us all to agree on the Sabbath doctrine, there are still so many varying ideas amongst us Progs in regards to it's nature, how binding it is, how it is to be observed, New/Old covenant issues, Moral/Ceremonial issues, Christ the True Sabbath Rest, seal of God/mark of the beast, etc.

You are attempting the impossible. This one issue alone will bog you down until the cows come home."{highlights added}

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mva1985 said:

Daryl,

I answer the question Night won't. Yes I accept the seventh-day Sabbbath.

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sentipente said:

Very funny considering that no one knows what it means to accept the seventh-day Sabbath. I doubt you will find anyone on earth who denies that the seventh day is the Sabbath.

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sentipente said:

Very funny considering that no one knows what it means to accept the seventh-day Sabbath. I doubt you will find anyone on earth who denies that the seventh day is the Sabbath.

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DarylFawcett said:

I didn't have any ulterior or hidden motives when I created this thread.

All I wanted to do is to see what common ground, if any, exists between the two camps as labeled by the respective sub-forums.

Perhaps I didn't ask the starter question clear enough, so let me ask it again.

Do we all accept the fact that the Sabbath is the day that God has asked us to observe as stated in the 4th Commandment as quoted below?

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DarylFawcett said:

I didn't have any ulterior or hidden motives when I created this thread.

All I wanted to do is to see what common ground, if any, exists between the two camps as labeled by the respective sub-forums.

Perhaps I didn't ask the starter question clear enough, so let me ask it again.

Do we all accept the fact that the Sabbath is the day that God has asked us to observe as stated in the 4th Commandment as quoted below?

[/size]

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IntoTheCrimsonSky said:

I think this is a good thread, actually. If we all behave, we may actually be able to gain something from it.

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NightEternal said:

From the answers given to Daryl's question it would seem that none of the responders has ever done a through study of the Sabbath and all associated points.

Arrogant false assumption. I have read many books on the Sabbath, including Ratzlaff, Bachiocchi and Jewish historians. I know every argument for and against it inside and out.

Also from those answers I am dumbfounded why any of you would want to use the name Seventh-day Adventist, or any part of it, in any way.

Same old tired false charges. Don't you Trads ever get any new material?

Once again, more arrogant false assumptions. For some reason you presume to believe I do not observe the Sabbath and have denied it. Where such a preposterous idea comes from I don't know, but it is certainly not from anything I have asserted in my post. I have said no such thing and I have made no such denials, yet you, for some reason, choose to spew such slanderous, vomitous nonsense against me.

Night's response would seem to indicate a very good reason why there is not, and will never be, any theological agreement between the two camps.

Once again you assume I am denying the Sabbath. Not even remotely the case, yet you continue to bear false witness against me. Typical, tired Trad tactic. It's so old and predictable by now.

REQUESTED EDIT: "This answer expresses a worrying lack of acceptance of the direct teachings and doctrines of the Bible and the teachings and doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist church."

More arrogant assumptions and slanderous false charges. Consider this post reported.

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More arrogant false assumptions.
Your papal declarations don't scare me Doc. and neither does your inquisitional arrogance.

The bottom line is that I could care less what you have to say on the matter. I am a baptized member of the SDA church and your grand pronouncements do not change that fact one iota.

With your own words you have also admited that you get great delight and enjoyment from infuriating and frustrating traditional Seventh-day adventist.

Of course I do. I will attack thier theology and false beliefs as much as I desire and you have nothing to say about it.

Sorry Night, but this one old timer that you can do neither of the above, with or to. The things you and your fellows question or refute, I have shown to unbelivers, using only the Bible, to be true and irefutable.

Really? You don't get around the internet much then. Many so-called 'irrefutable' Trad beliefs have been demolished, even by some of our own non-traditional SDA scholars and thought leaders.

Has everyone that has been shown the truth accepted it? Certainly not! There have been some that have admited it but still refused to accept it. Some have cursed me and walked away. But praise the Lord some have accepted the trurh and continue to this day to seek more truth so that they will be ready when Christ returns, not just getting ready for His return.

Save your dead-end, bankrupt salvation theology that rapes assurance of salvation. I want none of it, it makes me sick.

I am saved. I am ready NOW as a result of Christ's merits in place of my own. Nothing you or your legalistic TSDA cohorts can say will ever take me from His hands and rob me of my salvation. HA! Pure arrogance for you to think you could even come close to doing so!

If you, or any other person that has trouble accepting any part of the Sabbath truth, has a sincere desire to understand the Sabbath truth, I would be happy to study with you. If however all that is wanted is an opportunity for debate, rather than looking for truth, then we both would be wasting our time. My offer is made in good faith. Should you, or anyone else, choose to accept my offer I will be more than happy to study with you.

Once again, false assumptions and slander. Where have I ever denied the Sabbath anywhere in this thread? Nowhere. Not in one single place. Yet this charge still persists even though I have not even hinted at any such thing.

Since I have no issues with the Sabbath, you can save your insulting, consdecending, arrogant offer. Not in a million years would I ever submit to the instruction of an ultra-conservative, right-wing, Trad SDA such as yourself.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

This constant tagline of 'respectfully' is an insult to our intelligence. You have not one single bit of respect in the things you claim against us Progs and don't for a minute think you have fooled us into believing you do.

I once again regret ever voting for you as mod. I revoke it utterly and completely. Your agenda is clear, and it is amazing to me you stoop to such underhanded tactics as you have in this post, the worst offender being balatantly breaking the forum rule that stipulates you cannot charge others here who are professed, baptized members of the curch as false SDA's..

You are not fit to be a mod. You should be stripped of your position immediately.

I will do everything in my power to make sure this happens

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mjona3 said:

Where does it say we shouldn't exercise? Where does it say we shouldn't entertain ourselves?

I agree we shouldn't work, and do my best not to. But just like someone might take their ram out of the pit, so sometimes work is unavoidable.

JM

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NightEternal said:

From the answers given to Daryl's question it would seem that none of the responders has ever done a through study of the Sabbath and all associated points.

Arrogant false assumption. I have read many books on the Sabbath, including Ratzlaff, Bachiocchi and Jewish historians. I know every argument for and against it inside and out.

Also from those answers I am dumbfounded why any of you would want to use the name Seventh-day Adventist, or any part of it, in any way.

Same old tired false charges. Don't you Trads ever get any new material?

Once again, more arrogant false assumptions. For some reason you presume to believe I do not observe the Sabbath and have denied it. Where such a preposterous idea comes from I don't know, but it is certainly not from anything I have asserted in my post. I have said no such thing and I have made no such denials, yet you, for some reason, choose to spew such slanderous, vomitous nonsense against me.

Night's response would seem to indicate a very good reason why there is not, and will never be, any theological agreement between the two camps.

Once again you assume I am denying the Sabbath. Not even remotely the case, yet you continue to bear false witness against me. Typical, tired Trad tactic. It's so old and predictable by now.

REQUESTED EDIT:"This answer expresses a worrying lack of acceptance of the direct teachings and doctrines of the Bible and the teachings and doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist church."
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

More arrogant assumptions and slanderous false charges. Consider this post reported.

Ergo; By any legal standard you are not a Seventh-day Adventist no matter if you have at some point been baptized and still have your name on the church membership rolls.

More arrogant false assumptions.
Your papal declarations don't scare me Doc. and neither does your inquisitional arrogance.

The bottom line is that I could care less what you have to say on the matter. I am a baptized member of the SDA church and your grand pronouncements do not change that fact one iota.

With your own words you have also admited that you get great delight and enjoyment from infuriating and frustrating traditional Seventh-day adventist.

Of course I do. I will attack thier theology and false beliefs as much as I desire and you have nothing to say about it.

Sorry Night, but this one old timer that you can do neither of the above, with or to. The things you and your fellows question or refute, I have shown to unbelivers, using only the Bible, to be true and irefutable.

Really? You don't get around the internet much then. Many so-called 'irrefutable' Trad beliefs have been demolished, even by some of our own non-traditional SDA scholars and thought leaders.

Has everyone that has been shown the truth accepted it? Certainly not! There have been some that have admited it but still refused to accept it. Some have cursed me and walked away. But praise the Lord some have accepted the trurh and continue to this day to seek more truth so that they will be ready when Christ returns, not just getting ready for His return.

Save your dead-end, bankrupt salvation theology that rapes assurance of salvation. I want none of it, it makes me sick.

I am saved. I am ready NOW as a result of Christ's merits in place of my own. Nothing you or your legalistic TSDA cohorts can say will ever take me from His hands and rob me of my salvation. HA! Pure arrogance for you to think you could even come close to doing so!

If you, or any other person that has trouble accepting any part of the Sabbath truth, has a sincere desire to understand the Sabbath truth, I would be happy to study with you. If however all that is wanted is an opportunity for debate, rather than looking for truth, then we both would be wasting our time. My offer is made in good faith. Should you, or anyone else, choose to accept my offer I will be more than happy to study with you.

Once again, false assumptions and slander. Where have I ever denied the Sabbath anywhere in this thread? Nowhere. Not in one single place. Yet this charge still persists even though I have not even hinted at any such thing.

Since I have no issues with the Sabbath, you can save your insulting, consdecending, arrogant offer. Not in a million years would I ever submit to the instruction of an ultra-conservative, right-wing, Trad SDA such as yourself.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

This constant tagline of 'respectfully' is an insult to our intelligence. You have not one single bit of respect in the things you claim against us Progs and don't for a minute think you have fooled us into believing you do.

I once again regret ever voting for you as mod. I revoke it utterly and completely. Your agenda is clear, and it is amazing to me you stoop to such underhanded tactics as you have in this post, the worst offender being balatantly breaking the forum rule that stipulates you cannot charge others here who are professed, baptized members of the curch as false SDA's..

You are not fit to be a mod. You should be stripped of your position immediately.

I will do everything in my power to make sure this happens

Click to expand...