What do ppl think Mormons are a cult?

Drotar · Aug 22, 2003

My question is how those people are guests and yet they're still being allowed to post?

I should do that.

The reason we say that "Mormons" are a cult is because of the differences of authority. Main reason.

Five sources of Scripture:

Bible (good)
BOM (not good)
D & C (not good)
POGP (not good)
church leader- prophet (VERY not good)

The reason why we might call y'all a cult, to be honest, is the belief that whatever the prophet says is Scripture. The prophet is a working man just like us. He's no elite Christian. If it was not that problem with authority, then we would have no problem.

Christadelphians deny the Trinity, but the claim they are a cult is limited. They hold to Biblical authority.

JW's don't. They have their own version that the founders edited and believe the magazine is Scripture- infallible.

The dividing line is ALWAYS (believe it or don't) authority. The difference in authority and who y'all believe and who we believe is why many brand Mormonism a cult. JW's and LDS mainly, for the belief that their leaders words are Scripture. TTYL Jesus loves you!

Drotar · Aug 22, 2003

USSJ4Vegetto45 said:
Actually that just says is that he is in the image of his father. Also, it says that he is like the father. Not that he is the father. Also, this corresponds to an earlier question, if God and Jesus are the same person then wouldn't god himself have done the atonement?

Yeppers peppers!

EXACTLY! I'm so excited you see this now!

The only person that could have forensically died for our sins, is God Himself. If Jesus was not God, it would be sinful for God to put EVERYBODY's sins on Him. Whether or not Christ gave consent to bear the sins of the world isn't the issue. If Jesus was not God, then it would have been unjust of God to have imputed the sins of the world on Him. Whether consentual or not isn't the issue. The issue is that only God could have JUSTLY died for our sins.

Problem I see in your post: Jesus is not the Father. The Father is not the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Son. There is a distinction of Persons and a distinction of roles. But they are one God. Jesus was praying to the Father. He was talking to another person of the Trinity.

This is possible since the Trinity is not a physical, but a spirit. Since they are one God, a spirit, they are not bound by fleshly limitations. They are infinite. They are GOD! One God, eternally existent.

Hard to understand. That's all the more reason to believe it when the Scripture says it. Why? Because if we could understand the very BEING of God, that's evidence somebody made it up. If we can't comprehend the infinite God with our finite minds, you better believe Him when He tells you. TTYL Jesus loves you!

Serapha · Aug 22, 2003

givenright said:
USSJ4Vegetto45

It is okay, "our" God the heavenly father, here, there, everywhere is our father. Everyone wants to tell what they feel and what they believe. I use to remember Do not eat the meat before the milk!! So, I am wondering why you are telling all the Mormon secrets, I do not know if you did your mission or not but, I have always heard that there are steps in this to make people believe,(I always thought that was either brain wash process, or trying people out to see if they are serious. I will admit, because I loved my ex husband a lot, I believe that some of the mormon believes, such as family, geneology...but, the baptism of the dead thing creeps me out. I do not believe in the God had sex with Mary thing, But do believe that heaven has fruit and vegs that were not grown by a tree, because they need no water or sun to grow because they are in the glory land, and there is every thing there. I do not think the garden of eden was in america, yet, it could have been. I do not think there is three heavens that people not so good can not visit the good ones, yet the good ones can visit the bad ones. If you are bad you are bad, that is what hell is for.( or what l.d.s. call total darkness)
I do like my sweet tea and will not give that up, so I am out right there alone, now coffee, well, I am not in to it any way, I sometimes am a free spirit when it comes to the under garmit thing so I do not think I want to wear more cloths that are from the temple, I have a protective sheild already it is God. I am not into gossip so that counts me out from the relief soc. everyone of them I went to the sat and canned and talked about people. I am in to the beautiful choir, you have. I am into not saying God in vain, I am into having as many children as God would give me, now I can not have anymore, that right there is beautiful. I am not into why the church will not let you wear crosses or fishes, to wear.
and my other question is why is there not any windows that view into the l.d.s. churches it is so dark sometimes with out windows.I do not like the divorce thing yet, I am living fact Mormons divorce,lie and cheet,
I know not all of them as mormons say the people are not perfect yet, supposiable the church is. I do believe that Joseph guy could have seen a angel, yet, the devil can appear also as anything.okay that are some m does and don't of your church, I like and do not like,....I am keeping mr lipton...tea..hehehe....by the way are you on a ship?
USSJ4Vegetto45 it is good to have people to talk to in the navy, yet there are not many l.d.s. chaplins around. Good night to you,and hay I do not think judgement is always the answer..next time tell us your testomony I will tell you mine. I have learned alot hum... but, you still do not have me believeing it yet... Love jenn

:

<smiles>

" I do not think the garden of eden was in america, yet, it could have been"

NO.. it couldn't. Read Genesis, it gives the location of Eden. The Euphrates hasn't moved...., well, it hasn't moved much.... at least, not THAT much

I sometimes am a free spirit when it comes to the under garmit thing so I do not think I want to wear more cloths that are from the temple,

Well, concerning that undergarmet, you shouldn't be caught dead without it... look what happened to Joseph Smith when he left his at home????

"I am not into gossip so that counts me out from the relief soc. everyone of them I went to the sat and canned and talked about people."

In fairness, not every Relief Society is as you describe..... Did you get the opportunity to read any of the old Relief Society materials? I am looking for some of the older "stuff"

and Jenn, now we know what you like and don't like, what's your testimony today?

just curious,

~malaka~

givenright · Aug 22, 2003

and Jenn, now we know what you like and don't like, what's your testimony today?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
OKAY, FIRST ALL TODAY MY TESTOMY IS BEING TIRED FROM STAYING UP READING ALL THAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN UNTIL 3:00 IN THE MORNING,
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. BOY , I NEED TO SLEEP!!
BUT, BESIDES THAT HERE IT IS...

I was born in JAN 1971 in a very small town in Oklahoma, When I was born I was a addict on p.c.p and I do not mean a computer, l.s.d., and other drugs, yet, the lord brought be through that. I did have some learning disablitilies such as dislexa, but, other then that I was just fine. I could not read until I was in high school, one day I was in home ec. and the teacher did not know I could not read and she asked me to read I tried but, I was stuck on the word purse, all the kids thought because I WAS A PRETTY GIRL AND POPULAR THAT I WAS PULLING THE TEACHERS LEG, YET, I WAS NOT!! I went home that day and grabbed my Bible and opened it and say Lord God please heal me, heal me Jesus and let me learn how to read and I will serve you the rest of my life. The next year they told me I would be not taking the s.a.t. because I could not pass them with my disablity, I cried for I thought I would be nothing one day, but, I went in to the teacher and said give me the test, God has healed me, I passed them and not only that I had a high school reading level.The lord has blessed be from here to the moon and back, he saved my life and guided me, he helps me reunite families seperated in adoption. He has given me four children and one step son, he has brought be through the most painful problems, He helps me everday, he heals, he loves, I know you believe in healing, you never told me what your testomy is, are you allowed too?
Many times people ask how do you do all that you have done, I answer through God all things are possiable. Still Do not belive in the Jesus having girlfriend thing, or that black people are black from a curse from Cane, but, I do believe someone could have stolen those plates if they were real gold, hum, way was the rest of the books of the bible not written on Golden plates if the BOOK OF MORMON is missing verses of the bible.Just Questions that I have in my mind. I am not downing you are anything, You never said if you did a mission and where?
We will have to get into the talking in tongues thing next visit, I have to clean house and I have two adoptees I have to help, so write soon. Love Jennifer

Still keeping my Lipton---
Where's the beef? I dislike milk!!!
Jennifer
http://Givenright.com

KennySe · Aug 22, 2003

"Judaism Priesthood 101" says that the Priesthood of Aaron was given to the House of Levi.
"Christianity 101" says that Jesus is the High Priest of the order of Melchizedec.
Keeping these in mind, here's some information on Joseph Smith BY Joseph Smith, that I have a major problem with.
http://www.eoom.org/jsordain.html

Smith says that John the Baptist ordained Smith and Cowdery [neither of the House of Levi] with the Aaronic Priesthood.
Then, Cowdery baptized Smith , and then Smith baptized Cowdery.
And then, Cowdery ordained Smith to the Aaronic Priesthood [yet John the Baptist had already done so]. And then Smith ordained Cowdery to the Aaronic Priesthood [yet John the Baptist had already done so.]
Smith says that Peter, James and John [The Apostles] hold the keys to the Melchizedec Priesthood.

***

As for the hill of Comorah and the man named Moroni, BOTH names are Swahili, from off the coast of Africa, and were names known to whalers of Smith's day. Here's a map of 1808.
http://www.bible.ca/mor-camora.htm

http://www.ksu.edu/sasw/comoros/ngazidja.comoro

*********

Joseph Smith translated the plates by looking through a seer stone.

He began translating them before he was baptized.

No one else EVER saw the plates.

Smith translated "Reformed Egyptian", a language which only he knows about, not even Egyptians know about it. Smith tranlated from "Reformed Egyptian" into his modern English that the Messiah's name would be "Jesus Christ".
[Yes, the Messiah's surname is Christ, and his parents, Joseph Christ and Mary Christ were truly blessed, right, Smith?]

**

Jesus was born "at Jerusalem", per the Book of Alma.
[Too bad the translation was'nt "at Judea", because that IS the name of the region.)

Per the Book of Mormon, The first Christians were in the New World.
(Gee, and I thought the followers of Christ were first called Christians at Antioch AFTER Christ had ascended to Heaven.)

givenright · Aug 22, 2003

I want to know why the Mormon church believes that you get to chose you parents from heaven, I help adoptees find their birth parents and I too am adopted there is no way that I would have chosen a birth mother that is on drugs, not now or ever, and I would not want to be adopted, I would have wanted to be born to by adoptive parents. Can you tell me why the church believes this?? and what is it called? also, can you seal a adopted child to you?

Jennifer http://givenright.com

Serapha · Aug 23, 2003

givenright said:
also, can you seal a adopted child to you?

Jennifer http://givenright.com

SEALING OF CHILDREN TO PARENTS CEREMONY

Married couples, usually converts, who are being sealed often
have minor children. These children are normally sealed to their
parents immediately following the Sealing ceremony of the parents to
each other. The children may not be present for the parents' sealing,
but are brought in, dressed in white, while the parents are still
kneeling at the altar. The parents are moved to the ends of the
rectangular altar and the children kneel along the sides where the
parents were. The parents join hands in the Patriarchal grip and the
Children place their right hand in the top of the parents hands,
starting with the oldest child. The Officiator then stands behind the
father and pronounces the ceremony

SEALER: "By the authority of the Holy Priesthood, I seal you _____
(acting as proxy for and in behalf of ______), to your father _____
and to your mother _____, for time and all eternity, as an heir (or
heirs) (with all the children) as though you were born in the new and
everlasting covenant, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of
the Holy Ghost, Amen."

Other family sealings are performed in a similar manner on
occasion. A member of the wedding couple could be sealed to his or
her parents at this time, or have their parents sealed and act as
proxy for the appropriate parent.

"Sealing Sessions" are conducted nearly every evening in the
Temple in which a group of four couples and an Officiator will perform
approximately 200 to 300 proxy sealings in about two hours. These are
very business like and efficiently conducted working sessions, which
produce over-stressed knees and barks among the participants.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mormon Church Handbook

Ordinances for Adopted Children

After a legal adoption is final, adopted children receive ordinances in the surname of their adopting parents. An older child who is adopted and who has been baptized is not baptized again. The ward clerk changes the membership record to conform to the decree of adoption.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Moron Church Handbook

Adopted or Foster Children Who Are Living

Living children who are Born in the covenant or have been sealed to parents cannot be sealed to any other parents.
Living children who have been legally adopted and were neither born in the covenant nor sealed to former parents may be sealed to their adoptive parents after the adoption is final. A copy of the final adoption decree or the revised birth certificate should be presented at the temple. There is no obligation to identify the natural parents of these children.

~malaka~

givenright · Aug 23, 2003

I am divorced I guess you would say it is a long story, but, both my ex husband/- ex. are both remarried I think he began to take my son to church with him in the summer time and something must have gone wrong because my son states that they have not been going, and my ex's additude shows he is not attending the church, or if he is it is not helping him much, I know both sides of him, the good and bad, and know that he was very strong in the church once. He is re-married and my son states that she was attending church with them, I was wondering if the were sealed together could they seal our son, because I do not think I would like that very much!!!

Please elp me on this question..

Jennifer
http://givenright.com
I am going to catch some sleep
Thank you for your help
Still keeping my Lipton and my Bible

lared · Aug 23, 2003

Mainstream christendom (the churches) thinks of Mormonism as a cult because its teachings and practices are so different.

However, when you compare Quakerism with Catholicism, you will also see quite a difference. Or perhaps Mennonites with the current Episcopal church.

In reality, Mormonism is really quite similiar to christendom (the churches). Mormonism and christendom are part of this world. Even though Jesus told us to be no part of this world.

In other words....both Mormons and church goers (for the most part) are political, nationalistic, and militaristic. They are heavily involved in this world and vote for individuals who they think can cure the world's ills. Their young men are also to be found in the nation's armies. And at times, kill fellow members that happen to live in other countries.

True Christians, on the other hand, are no part of this world, and advocate only God's kingdom (government) as the only solution to mankind's ills.
Thus their lives are in harmony with the Lord's Prayer. They also do not slaughter their spiritual brothers as they abstain from the nation's armies.

Drotar · Aug 23, 2003

Perhaps your post would make more sense if you elaborated.

Serapha · Aug 23, 2003

givenright said:
I am divorced I guess you would say it is a long story, but, both my ex husband/- ex. are both remarried I think he began to take my son to church with him in the summer time and something must have gone wrong because my son states that they have not been going, and my ex's additude shows he is not attending the church, or if he is it is not helping him much, I know both sides of him, the good and bad, and know that he was very strong in the church once. He is re-married and my son states that she was attending church with them, I was wondering if the were sealed together could they seal our son, because I do not think I would like that very much!!!

Please elp me on this question..

Jennifer
http://givenright.com
I am going to catch some sleep
Thank you for your help
Still keeping my Lipton and my Bible

Jennifer,

Church Handbook
of Instructions

Children Whose Parents Are Divorced

A child whose parents are divorced may be baptized if the parent(s) with legal custody gives permission. If the mother has custody and has remarried ' and if the child is not formally adopted but has assumed the surname of the stepfather, the child may be baptized in the name by which he or she will be known.

Young Men Whose Parents Are Divorced

A young man whose parents are divorced may be ordained to Aaronic Priesthood offices if the parent(s) with legal custody gives permission. If the mother has custody and has remarried, and if the young man is not formally adopted but has assumed the surname of, the stepfather, he may be ordained in the name by which he is known.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The approval of the First Presidency is necessary to issue limited-use recommends to children and youth to observe the sealings of stepbrothers and stepsisters to parents. No special approvals are necessary to issue limited-use recommends to adopted brothers and sisters, half-brothers and sisters, and full brothers and sisters who wish to observe sealings of living children to parents.

I hope this helps in your understanding....

and do a lot of this.....

~malaka~

Peter · Aug 23, 2003

I have an aunt who is mormon. And I love her very much. However, I disagree with her choice of religous expressions. She, along with many others who use Jesus, the Bible and other related Christian icons, stand outside communion with the ecumenical patriarch and therefor outside the Church.

givenright · Aug 24, 2003

Does Mormons believe there are other plants with different Gods, and if so what is the verse to back that up? also, do mormons believe the devil and jesus were brothers? I would like to hear about this can you tell me.
Also you never told me your testomy.I would like to hear about that too.

givenright · Aug 24, 2003

Hello again, I want to know Do Mormons believe in other Gods then the one in our heaven? also you never told me your testomy.
I am just wondering...

keeping my lipton.. jenn

Jennifer
http://givenright.tripod.com

Drotar · Aug 24, 2003

Yes, they do. Everything the Father is, according to their theology, we are capable of becoming. He was once a man too.

Jesus and Lucifer are indeed brothers as well. They believe that we are ALL spiritual brothers and sisters. All literally begotten by our Heavenly Father and Mother. Jesus was merely the firstborn.

Support for that will be found primarily in the Pearl of Great Price.

For the first paragraph, support for that is almost exclusively in quotes from prophets and from Joseph Smith and MAINLY Brigham Young.

As for the support of there being more than one god, they will cite John 10:34, and Psalm 82.

givenright · Aug 24, 2003

Do Mormons believe that you can come back to earth for future teaching? I how was jesus the first one? oh, boy, I am learning now..

Jennifer
Still keeping my Lipton
http://givenright.tripod.com

givenright · Aug 24, 2003

Lets just say that you were married in the temple or the church of Jesus christ of latter day Saints and something happend like someone forgot to turn in your paper work, or you were married before and it and you thought it had been desolved and it was not, Would you still be married in Gods Eyes with the church, or the temple? Please explain this to me.
Also, If Mans law was something why is it different for the mormons??

love jennifer

adoption search and reunion
STILL KEEPING MY LIPTON
http://givenright.tripod.com

Serapha · Aug 24, 2003

givenright said:
Does Mormons believe there are other plants with different Gods, and if so what is the verse to back that up? also, do mormons believe the devil and jesus were brothers? I would like to hear about this can you tell me.
Also you never told me your testomy.I would like to hear about that too.

Mormonism teaches that through works, the human being can become a god just as Elohim did.... for the god Elohim was one a man. Mormonism teaches that if your works are sufficient, you will be the god of another planet.

Yes, mormonism teaches that Jesus Christ and Lucifer were brothers, and that when there was a council meeting to determine what would be done about the sinful condition of the world, Lucifer and Jesus argued about who would go to save the world and how it would be accomplished.

By the way... all that I post about Mormonism has no biblical basis but is the result of progressive revelation contrary to biblical teachings. One of the understandings of mormonism is that the book of mormon takes precedence over the canonized Bible.

Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson,

"Unlike the Bible, which passed through generations of copyists, translators, and corrupt religionists who tampered with the text, the Book of Mormon came from writer to reader in just one inspired step of translation." (Ensign, January 1992, page 5).

~malaka~

Serapha · Aug 24, 2003

givenright said:
Do Mormons believe that you can come back to earth for future teaching? I how was jesus the first one? oh, boy, I am learning now..

Jennifer
Still keeping my Lipton
http://givenright.tripod.com

Hmmmmmmmm.

"When the elements in an organized form do not fill the end of their creation, THEY ARE THROWN BACK AGAIN, like brother Kimball's old pottery ware, to be ground up, AND MADE OVER AGAIN." Journal of Discourses Vol 1; Page 275.

It bothers me that you state that Jesus came back to earth.... because "Jesus" never came back to earth.... Jesus is the incarnation of the Word which has existed from the beginning... He did "come back"..... He came in a human form, but not "again"... for he only existed in the physcial form to have the blood which was necessary for a blood atonement for the sins of the whole world. The second person of the triune God is omnipresent.

~malaka~

Serapha · Aug 24, 2003

givenright said:
Lets just say that you were married in the temple or the church of Jesus christ of latter day Saints and something happend like someone forgot to turn in your paper work, or you were married before and it and you thought it had been desolved and it was not, Would you still be married in Gods Eyes with the church, or the temple? Please explain this to me.
Also, If Mans law was something why is it different for the mormons??

love jennifer

adoption search and reunion
STILL KEEPING MY LIPTON
http://givenright.tripod.com

Jenn,

The God of mormonism is not the same God of the Bible. The Bible is pretty specific about the sin of adultery concerning married people and divorced people. The paperwork of temple works has nothing to do with the God of Christianity.

Mormonism does teach that man is to support the laws of the land. Recently (April or May) the current president presented the mormon church's views on serving in the military, etc.... It was in a discourse.... "War and Peace". I don't think that it is online anywhere and I don't have a copy of it... I just heard the message.

~malaka~

What do ppl think Mormons are a cult?

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