What did Luther mean by, "They are teaching me to be rude."?

OpenDoor

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Toward the end of Luther's life, his poor physical health was said to have made him short-tempered and even harsher in his writings and comments. His wife Katharina was overheard saying, "Dear husband, you are too rude," to which he is said to have responded, "They are teaching me to be rude."

What did Luther mean by this?
 

LilLamb219

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I believe that is from Luther's Table Talks which wasn't written by Luther himself but rather a collection of the things he supposedly said.

To answer the question of what he meant by his statement, I'm not sure that there is enough information to properly answer (I've looked it up too).
 
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OpenDoor

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I believe that is from Luther's Table Talks which wasn't written by Luther himself but rather a collection of the things he supposedly said.

To answer the question of what he meant by his statement, I'm not sure that there is enough information to properly answer (I've looked it up too).
I have been looking into this as well (with no luck).
I am particularly interested in who Luther thought the "they" was...
Did Luther believe he was under some sort of spiritual attack? Possibly somewhat like Paul's "thorn in the flesh"? However, according to Paul this was done to keep himself from being proud, not to make him rude.
 
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snumerouno

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I'll never understand how people can say they are Christians and yet hate the Jews. I don't believe such a video has any place here.

Well that's funny since you are a Lutheran and it is widely known that Martin Luther harbored ill will toward the Jews.

Which might I add is the reason I made the comment that I made. (I don't hate Jews).
 
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JonNC

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Well that's funny since you are a Lutheran and it is widely known that Martin Luther harbored ill will toward the Jews.

Which might I add is the reason I made the comment that I made. (I don't hate Jews).

In his later life, yes, which made him rather typical for the era he lived in. Not an excuse, just a historical fact.
Lutherans today roundly reject his anti-Jewish rhetoric.

Jon
 
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Tertiumquid

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Toward the end of Luther's life, his poor physical health was said to have made him short-tempered and even harsher in his writings and comments. His wife Katharina was overheard saying, "Dear husband, you are too rude," to which he is said to have responded, "They are teaching me to be rude." What did Luther mean by this?

The comment appears to be from a Tabletalk recorded by Jerome Besold (see LW 54:467). While I'm not aware of any official English translation of the comment, Preserved Smith (a man fluent in Luther's Tabletalk) sets down the following in regard to Luther's dealings with the Sacramentarians. It appears Luther had particular people in mind with a particular theology when he made the comment:

One of the lesser religious leaders of the time, usually classed as an Anabaptist, though he aspired to found a new sect of his own, the "Middle Way," was a certain Silesian gentleman named Casper von Schwenkfeld. He had been known to Luther for a great many years and detested for his heresy concerning the nature of Christ. Submitting his opinions to the theologians
who met in the Congress of Schmalkalden early in 1540, Schwenkfeld was warned of his errors by them, whereupon he had the poor judgment to appeal from them to Luther. The opinion of the latter, together with his terribly rude answer, are recorded by Besold, November 8, 1543:

Schwenkfeld sent the doctor his book on the humanity of Christ, entitled Dominion. Luther said : " He is a poor man, without genius or talents, smitten like all the ranters. He knows not of what he babbles, but his meaning and sense is : l Creatures are not to be adored, as it is written : " Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve." ' Then he argues : * Christ is created, therefore we should not pray to the man Christ.' He makes two Christs. He says the created Christ, after his resurrection and glorification, was transformed into a deity and is therefore to be adored, and he foully cheats the people with the lordly name of Christ, saying all the while that it is for Christ's glory ! Children go to the heart of the doctrine with : 'I believe in Jesus Christ our Lord, conceived of the Holy Ghost, etc.,' but this fool will make two Christs, one who hung on the cross and the other who ascended into heaven, and says I must not pray to the Christ who hung on the cross and walked on earth. But he let himself be adored when one fell down before him, and he says : ' Whoso believeth in me, believeth in him who sent me.' This maniac has stolen some words out of my book." . . .

Katie said : "Dear husband, you are too rude." Luther answered: " They teach me to be rude." ... To the messenger he answered: " My dear messenger ! Tell your master Schwenkt'eld that I have received his letter and pamphlet. And would to God he would stop! Formerly he kindled a fire in Silesia which is not yet quenched and which will burn him eternally. And he adds to that the heresy of Eutychianism on the creation of Christ, and makes the Church err, as God has not commanded him to do. The senseless fool, possessed of the devil, understands nothing and knows not whereof he babbles. But if he will not cease writing, at least let him leave me in peace,
untroubled by the books of which the devil has purged him, and let him take this as my last judgment and answer : The Lord rebuke thee, Satan, and may the spirit which called you, and the race you run, and all your fellow sacramentarians and Eutychians, go with you and/your blasphemies to perdition." . . .

Source: Preserved Smith, The Life and Letters of Martin Luther, pp. 406-407.

Regards, JS
 
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ContraMundum

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Well that's funny since you are a Lutheran and it is widely known that Martin Luther harbored ill will toward the Jews.

Which might I add is the reason I made the comment that I made. (I don't hate Jews).

Not to defend Luther too much, but his hostility towards the Jews is later in his life, whereas the younger and more charitable Luther had a great many good things to say about the Jews- groundbreaking things, in fact. Read "Jesus was Born a Jew" for example. He also said many endearing things about Hebrew language etc. It's just that his holiness slipped on this point later in life, and he is remembered more for hating and calling for the persecution of his Jewish neighbour than loving him.

But, to be fair, his very last ever sermon ends with a call to treat the Jews in Christian charity.
 
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Moses Medina

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Well that's funny since you are a Lutheran and it is widely known that Martin Luther harbored ill will toward the Jews.

Which might I add is the reason I made the comment that I made. (I don't hate Jews).

Us being lutheran has nothing to do with this. Being a Lutheran means we believe what the bible says, we have a confession to what it says and will defend it. There are many things Luther said that the Lutheran church doesn't accept. With that said he was a great man and theologian and as for his comments on the jews, I think contra words it well.
 
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Us being lutheran has nothing to do with this. Being a Lutheran means we believe what the bible says, we have a confession to what it says and will defend it. There are many things Luther said that the Lutheran church doesn't accept. With that said he was a great man and theologian and as for his comments on the jews, I think contra words it well.

Being Lutheran means that you adhere to the teachings of Martin Luther.
 
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Moses Medina

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Being Lutheran means that you adhere to the teachings of Martin Luther.

No, it means we believe what the reformers had to say in the book of concord. The reason why many things that Martin Luther are adhered to is because its biblically sound. There are some that are not however. Lutheran is a name that stuck. So we use it.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Being Lutheran means that you adhere to the teachings of Martin Luther.

With the understanding that he was only a man who was very much fallible. We measure the words he says with scripture.
 
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With the understanding that he was only a man who was very much fallible. We measure the words he says with scripture.

:amen:

This is the essence of Lutheran-ism. We measure EVERYTHING with Holy Scripture. We don't add or subtract, and we use Scripture to interpret Scripture, not the words of fallible man.
 
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