What did Jesus really mean when he said turn the other cheek ?

[Soulx3]

Jesus did not show any such thing.

Is that a yes or no to what I asked, which is the following:

"Do you limit God and His Word to one book, a book made up of multiple books, despite God's own apostle, John, acknowledging that if everything Jesus said and did was written down, the whole world would not have room for all the books that would be written? He was obviously being hyperbolic, but his point remains clear, and my question stands."

 

[Soulx3]

Fables and fairy tales simply spawn more errors and indicate not trusting Jesus.

Do you limit God and His Word to the Bible, a book made up of multiple books, despite God's own apostle, John, acknowledging that if everything Jesus said and did was written down, the whole world would not have room for all the books that would be written? He was obviously being hyperbolic, but his point remains clear, and my question stands. Yes or no? Or, do you refuse to answer again?

 

[Soulx3]

Meditate on why you refuse to answer my question, @Aaron112. Be honest in your search of and defense of the truth. Don't judge Maria Valtorta's writings to be of God without evidence that it's not. Remember that one can always find "evil fruit" as "evidence" to justify their prejudice. You should neither accept nor reject Maria Valtorta's writings blindly.

 

[timothyu]

Jesus was saying, "Have you been struck? Love and offer the other cheek to him who smacked you, considering that it is better that he gives vent to his wrath on you who can put up with it, rather than on somebody else who would take vengeance for the insult."

Too bad that does not line up with Jewish law.

 

[Soulx3]

Too bad that does not line up with Jewish law.

Elaborate.

 

[timothyu]

Elaborate.

The right hand was for regular use but the left was used when dealing with unclean things. Striking someone as an act of accusation was done with the back of the right hand. To turn the other cheek would force the other if they continued with their accusation, to use the left hand. This would not only render the accuser unclean for the allotted time but also would render the accusation as unclean. Turning the cheek was an act of defiance and a matter of procedural self defense. Gentiles really need to look at things from the perspective of the Jews before they go running off with Gentile meanderings. Probably why so many gentiles speak out against the law.

 

[Soulx3]

The right hand was for regular use but the left was used when dealing with unclean things. Striking someone as an act of accusation was done with the back of the right hand. To turn the other cheek would force the other if they continued with their accusation, to use the left hand. This would not only render the accuser unclean for the allotted time but also would render the accusation as unclean. Turning the cheek was an act of defiance and a matter of procedural self defense.

How does that make Jesus's following words untrue: "Have you been struck? Love and offer the other cheek to him who smacked you, considering that it is better that he gives vent to his wrath on you who can put up with it, rather than on somebody else who would take vengeance for the insult."

 

[timothyu]

How does that make Jesus's following words untrue:

Because it twists the original meaning?

 

[Soulx3]

Because it twists the original meaning?

How so?

 

[timothyu]

How so?

I just told you. Yes it is nice to think this was a move of pacifism and it worked well for Gandhi and his people, but Jesus was teaching the Jewish people who were familiar with the law and He was teaching them how to use the law to their advantage. Gentiles wouldn't have a clue so they make it over in their own image.

 

[Soulx3]

I just told you. Yes it is nice to think this was a move of pacifism and it worked well for Gandhi and his people, but Jesus was teaching the Jewish people who were familiar with the law and He was teaching them how to use the law to their advantage. Gentiles wouldn't have a clue so they make it over in their own image.

Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the Law, but rather fulfill the Law. Jesus said,

"Once it was said: "You shall love your friend and hate your enemy." No, not so. That was all right for the times when man did not have the comfort of God's smile. But now new things have come, when God has loved man so much as to send His Word to redeem him. Now the Word is speaking. And it is already an effusion of Grace. Later the Word will consummate the sacrifice of peace and redemption and there will be not only an effusion of Grace, but Grace will be given to every soul believing in Christ. It is therefore necessary to elevate the love for our neighbour to a perfection that unifies friend and enemy.

Have you been slandered? Love and forgive. Have you been struck? Love and offer the other cheek to him who smacked you, considering that it is better that he gives vent to his wrath on you who can put up with it, rather than on somebody else who would take vengeance for the insult. Have you been robbed? Do not think: "This neighbour of mine is greedy", but charitable say: "This poor brother of mine is needy" and give him also your tunic if he has stolen your mantle. You will make it impossible for him to steal twice, because he will have no need to rob another person of his tunic. You may say: "It may be a vice and not a need." Well, give just the same. God will reward you for it and the wicked man will pay for it. But many times, and this should remind you of what I told you yesterday on lowliness, when he sees how he has been dealt with, his vice will drop from his heart and the sinner will redeem himself making amends for the theft by handing back what he had stolen.

Be generous towards those, who, being more honest, ask you for what they need, instead of robbing you. If the rich were really poor in spirit, as I explained yesterday, there would be no painful social inequalities, the cause of so many human and superhuman calamities. Always consider: "If I were in need, how would I feel if I were denied help?" and act according to the reply of your ego. Do to others what you would like done to yourself and do not do to others what you would not like done to yourself.

The old saying: "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth", which is not one of the ten commandments, but was added because man, devoid of Grace, is such a beast that he only understands vengeance, the old saying has been cancelled. It has indeed been cancelled by the new word: "Love him who hates you, pray for him who persecutes you, justify him who slanders you, bless him who curses you, help the one who harms you, be pacific with quarrelsome people, be compliant with bothersome persons, willingly help those who have recourse to you without practising usury, do not criticise, do not judge." You do not know the particular reason for men's actions. Be generous and merciful in all kinds of assistance. The more you give the more you will be given and a full pressed down measure will be poured by God on to the lap of him who has been generous. God will not give you only according to what you have given, but He will give you much more. Endeavour to love and be loved. Quarrels are more costly than friendly settlements and a good grace is like honey, the flavour of which lasts for a long time on one's tongue.

Love, love. Love friends and enemies, to be like your Father, Who allows the rain to fall on the good and the wicked and lets the sun shine on the just and unjust and will grant eternal sunshine and dew, and hellish fire and hail, when the good will be chosen, like selected ears of corn, amongst the sheaves of the harvest. It is not enough to love those who love you and from whom you expect reciprocation. That is no merit: it is a joy and also naturally honest men can do it. Also the publicans and the gentiles do it. But you must love according to God and out of respect for God, Who is the Creator also of those who are your enemies or are not very fond of you. I want the perfection of love in you and I therefore say: "Be perfect as your Father, Who is in Heaven, is perfect."

So great is the precept of love for your neighbour, the perfecting of the precept of love for your neighbour, that I no longer say, as it was said: "Do not kill" because he who kills will be condemned by men. But I say to you: "Do not get angry" because a higher judgement is above you and takes into account immaterial actions. Who insults his brother will be condemned by the Sanhedrin. But who treats him as a madman, and consequently has harmed him, will be condemned by God. It is useless to make offers at the altar, unless you, for the sake of God, first sacrifice your ill-feelings in your hearts and you fulfill the most holy rite of forgiveness. Therefore, when you are about to make an offering to God and you remember that you have wronged your brother and you bear him a grudge because of a fault of his, leave your offer before the altar, make first the sacrifice of your self-esteem, by becoming reconciled to your brother, then come to the altar and only then your sacrifice will be holy. Full agreement is always the best business. The judgement of man is precarious and who stubbornly challenges it, may lose the cause and have to pay the opponent down to the last coin or languish in jail.

In everything turn your eyes to God. Ask yourselves: "Am I entitled to do what God does not do to me?" Because God is not so stubborn and implacable as you are. Woe to you if He were! No one would be saved. Let that consideration induce you to mild, humble, pitiful feeling. And then you will certainly receive a reward from God, both here and in the next world." (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. II)

 

[Peacemaker1]

Jesus showed Maria Valtorta scenes from His public life on earth, many of which we read about in the books that make up the Bible, and she described all she saw and heard in full at His behest, and thus she is in fact another first-hand witness.

Do you limit God and His Word to one book, a book made up of multiple books, despite God's own apostle, John, acknowledging that even if everything Jesus said and did was written down, the whole world would not have room for all the books that would be written? He was obviously being hyperbolic, but his point remains clear, and my question stands.

Yes I will answer for you.

Apostle John shall bear witness, as he was with Jesus from the beginning, as we have it witnessed here...


Matthew 4:21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.


John who we are verified could bear witness because of BEING WITH JESUS FROM THE BEGINNING, wrote the things that are written for a specific reason, that we might have life through the name of Jesus Christ the Son of God, through believing in His name. ( in the testimonies of what the apostles witnessed when they saw His majesty as Peter testifies here. 2 Peter 1:16.)



Peter preaches to the people, of all he had saw, being called from the beginning as John was, of the calling of Jesus from the beginning, seeing the crucifixion and the resurrection, and is the reason anyone is able to believe, because of THEIR ACCOUNTS, and Peter verifies Paul to also preach the resurrection of Christ, so anyone can believe and be saved by the same.




John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,




Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

 

[Peacemaker1]

hey anyone reading, this is Christian scriptures forum, stop the blasphemy of those who claim it is not Christian scriptures.

If you guys don't know how to stop heresy, read the verses I posted, they teach us how to stop deceit, because they testify the truth.

 

[Soulx3]

hey anyone reading, this is Christian scriptures forum, stop the blasphemy of those who claim it is not Christian scriptures.

If you guys don't know how to stop heresy, read the verses I posted, they teach us how to stop deceit, because they testify the truth.

If you're implying Maria Valtorta's writings are heresy, then you should present your reasons for believing that, otherwise it's a baseless claim.

 

[Peacemaker1]

If you're implying Maria Valtorta's writings are heresy, then you should present your reasons for believing that, otherwise it's a baseless claim.

yes, if you have no reason for a person adding to the scriptures we already have, as I just showed above, then you are following as in your own words, a baseless claim.

I am not making a claim, I am following what we are given, you are the one making a claim.

 

[Soulx3]

yes, if you have no reason for a person adding to the scriptures we already have, as I just showed above, then you are following as in your own words, a baseless claim.

I am not making a claim, I am following what we are given, you are the one making a claim.

Your claim is Maria Valtorta's writings are heresy without presenting reasons for why you think that is, and thus it's a baseless claim. Jesus showed Maria scenes from His public life, and she wrote down all she heard and saw at His behest, and these writings became The Poem of the Man-God: Vols. I-V, and it contains all that we read in the New Testament with a lot more detail. So, it's Scripture. :]

If you want to know Jesus's reasons for using Maria as His "pen," He gave them, and you can read them here.

 

[Peacemaker1]

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

 

[Peacemaker1]

what do we see Jesus do when evil came for Him, He did not resist it.

Jesus Christ is not talk, as the false teachers of the false forum are, Jesus Christ speaks it, and then does it.




Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matthew 26:67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands,



The best the deceivers can do, is to say and to not do it.



Matthew 23:2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.




do they think they have any credibility any more, to be revealed as speaking great swelling words of vanity, no they are over and out.



2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

 

[Soulx3]

@Peacemaker1, You claim Maria Valtorta's writings are heresy without presenting reasons for why it is, and thus it's a baseless claim. Jesus showed Maria scenes from His public life, and she wrote down all she heard and saw at His behest, and these writings became The Poem of the Man-God: Vols. I-V, and it contains all that we read in the New Testament with a lot more detail. So, it's Scripture. If you want to know Jesus's reasons for using Maria as His "pen," He gave them, and you can read them here. :]

 

[Peacemaker1]

regarding the words of Jesus, we are complete in Him and He gave us the victory, that is the purpose to not add to the words, as they ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO BE ADDED TO.



1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: