Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
The Shroud of Turin Is a FakeThe image that started this thread said that Jesus was wiry and strong. Of course, He was in His prime, but do you think it was because He was an artisan?
Nobody has responded to the Shroud of Turin questions.
If the image on the shroud is real, then everything fits but with shoulder length hair and a longer beard. If a person has shoulder length hair and a beard a few centimeters long, it doesn’t require much grooming and would fit with a lack of vanity.
In the Bible everyone reads, it clearly says... you shall not bow down to a carved image - any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Exodus 20:4, 5My Bible says that God the Eternal Son and Word became human. And that He is the visible Icon of the invisible God.
Icons =/= idols.
Not understanding the difference between icon and idol is not a good thing.
Now, with that said, an icon can become an idol if we aren't careful about our theology. But that's true of anything. We could even turn the Bible into an idol if we aren't careful.
And, for the record, yes I have seen that exact thing happen. There is a fairly notorious IFB pastor named Steven Anderson who has, over the years, been embroiled in a number of scandals, who has had several of his recorded/video sermons become viral because of various reasons. In one such sermon Anderson quite literally applied John 1:1 to the Bible, declaring that the Bible is God. So when I say that "we could even turn the Bible into an idol" I'm not speaking in hyperbole.
-CryptoLutheran
In the Bible everyone reads, it clearly says... you shall not bow down to a carved image - any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Exodus 20:4, 5
Arguing and reasoning against that will not change what it says.
If a person bows to a piece of wood, or stone, or metal, regardless of what it is carved into, it is idolatry, and the Bible tells us to flee from idolatry. 1 Corinthians 10:14
The persons in those images are not fleeing from idolatry. They are committing idolatry.
You deny this, but it is understandable, as to why you do.
Persons can try to help, but only you can change your mind.
Whatever the Bible says do not do, is a sin.Would it be idolatry when someone from an East Asian culture bows at the grave of a passed on loved one?
Is context irrelevant?
-CryptoLutheran
This is a good start:The Shroud of Turin Is a Fake
The Shroud of Turin is said by some to be the burial cloth of Jesus and by others a medieval forgery. Now, a new study using modern forensic techniques suggests the bloodstains on the shroud are completely unrealistic, supporting arguments that it is a fake....researchers strove to use modern forensic techniques on the shroud. They focused on the bloodstains from the supposed crucifixion wounds on the linen, aiming to reconstruct the most likely position of the arms and body within the shroud.The scientists applied blood — both human and synthetic — onto a live volunteer to see how blood would run in rivulets down his skin as he lay with his arms and body in various positions. Furthermore, Jesus was supposedly stabbed in the side with the Holy Spear as he hung on the cross, according to the Gospel of St. John. As such, to mimic a spear wound, the researchers stuck a sponge on a wooden plank, soaked the sponge with synthetic blood and jabbed this fake spear into the side of a mannequin to see how the blood ran down the body. They finally compared all these bloodstain patterns with ones seen on the shroud.They found that if one examined all the bloodstains on the shroud together, "you realize these cannot be real bloodstains from a person who was crucified and then put into a grave, but actually handmade by the artist that created the shroud,"study lead author Matteo Borrini, a forensic anthropologist at Liverpool John Moores University in England, told Live Science.For instance, two short rivulets of the blood on the back of the left hand of the shroud are only consistent with a person standing with their arms held at a 45-degree angle. In contrast, the forearm bloodstains found on the shroud match a person standing with their arms held nearly vertically. A person couldn't be in these two positions at once.
The Truth Behind the Shroud of Turin
While science and scholarship have demonstrated that the Shroud of Turin is not the burial cloth of Jesus but instead a fourteenth-century forgery, shroud devotees continue to claim otherwise.The following facts have been established by various distinguished experts and scholars:The shroud contradicts the Gospel of John, which describes multiple cloths (including a separate "napkin" over the face), as well as "an hundred pound weight" of burial spices--not a trace of which appears on the cloth.No examples of the shroud linen's complex herringbone twill weave date from the first century, when burial cloths tended to be of plain weave in any case.The shroud has no known history prior to the mid-fourteenth century, when it turned up in the possession of a man who never explained how he had obtained the most holy relic in Christendom.
Do you have an explanation tat would counter the evidence scientists present here?
If we were to use the verse provided in Isaiah 53:2b along with the descriptive encounters he had with his opponents, he would have had no particular characteristics that made him stand out in any way. Matter of fact, an ordinary person unaware would have easily passed over him in public.What Isaiah says;.
King James Bible
As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: Isaiah 52:14
What the Media says.
Revealed: What Jesus REALLY looked like, according to experts
He is one of the most instantly recognisable figures in the Western world. But experts say that every image you've seen of Jesus is almost certainly inaccurate.www.dailymail.co.uk
So what dou think ?
Multitudes of 'ordinary' and of 'extraordinary', religious and unreligious persons do that all the time.Matter of fact, an ordinary person unaware would have easily passed over him in public.
The scripture specifically says “You shall not make for yourself a carved image - any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them."
Trying to get around a command to not commit idolatry, is something one would do, when they want to support doing what God condemns.
True points avoided by religious cults and groups.This is what Jesus meant by honoring men more than God.
That's billions of people guilty of that.
If we were to use the verse provided in Isaiah 53:2b along with the descriptive encounters he had with his opponents, he would have had no particular characteristics that made him stand out in any way. Matter of fact, an ordinary person unaware would have easily passed over him in public.
You do not have to, but likely would find out that denying any part of God's Word is too much the same or the same as denying Jesus!Are we not to believe what Isaiah said ?
Maybe I am missing something in what I said, will you point out why I think you should not believe Isaiah?Are we not to believe what Isaiah said ?
Maybe I am missing something in what I said, will you point out why I think you should not believe Isaiah?
fwiw, Right after the exchange, it was clear he misunderstood.
"the part"
I believe just having one of those idolatrous things was considered sin. Mere possession of an idol was forbidden.Iconography can be useful as a teaching tool. If you go to a Catholic or Orthodox church and look at a picture of a saint, you can learn a lot about him/her if you know what symbols to consider. In this case, it is not idolatry.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?