What Did Ellen White Say About The Trinity

[Jesse Johnson]

(All prophets, without exception, predict the future.)

Some exceptions:
Miriam
The 70 elders of Israel
Elihu
King Saul
Gad
Some of the sons of Asaph, Heman, and Jeduthun
Agur son of Jakeh
Shemaiah
Azariah
Zechariah, the son of Jehoiada the priest
Etc., etc...

 

[BobRyan]

I must apologize to you: I did not notice your post about her prediction about the events of 9-11.

That would be, of course, a genuine prophetic predictions.

I must have been in the middle of responding to your previous posts, and I over looked it, and for that I am sorry.

Where can I find the reference for that prediction.

Thanks in advance.

And again, please forgive my oversight.

Her 9/11 statement about the events in NY.

The enemy has succeeded in perverting justice and in filling men’s hearts with the desire for selfish gain. “Justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.” Isaiah 59:14. In the great cities there are multitudes living in poverty and wretchedness, well-nigh destitute of food, shelter, and clothing; while in the same cities are those who have more than heart could wish, who live luxuriously, spending their money on richly furnished houses, on personal adornment, or worse still, upon the gratification of sensual appetites, upon liquor, tobacco, and other things that destroy the powers of the brain, unbalance the mind, and debase the soul. The cries of starving humanity are coming up before God, while by every species of oppression and extortion men are piling up colossal fortunes. {9T 11.4}
On one occasion, when in New York City, I was in the night season called upon to behold buildings rising story after story toward heaven. These buildings were warranted to be fireproof, and they were erected to glorify their owners and builders. Higher and still higher these buildings rose, and in them the most costly material was used. Those to whom these buildings belonged were not asking themselves: “How can we best glorify God?” The Lord was not in their thoughts. {9T 12.1}
I thought: “Oh, that those who are thus investing their means could see their course as God sees it! They are piling up magnificent buildings, but how foolish in the sight of the Ruler of the universe is their planning and devising. They are not studying with all the powers of heart and mind how they may glorify God. They have lost sight of this, the first duty of man.” {9T 12.2}
As these lofty buildings went up, the owners rejoiced with ambitious pride that they had money to use in gratifying self and provoking the envy of their neighbors. Much of the money that they thus invested had been obtained through exaction, through grinding down the poor. They forgot that in heaven an account of every business transaction is kept; every unjust deal, every fraudulent act, is there recorded. The time is coming when in their fraud and insolence men will reach a point that the Lord will not permit them to pass, and they will learn that there is a limit to the forbearance of Jehovah. {9T 12.3}
The scene that next passed before me was an alarm of fire. Men looked at the lofty and supposedly fire-proof buildings and said: “They are perfectly safe.” But these buildings were consumed as if made of pitch. The fire engines could do nothing to stay the destruction. The firemen were unable to operate the engines. {9T 13.1}
I am instructed that when the Lord’s time comes, should no change have taken place in the hearts of proud, ambitious human beings, men will find that the hand that had been strong to save will be strong to destroy. No earthly power can stay the hand of God. No material can be used in the erection of buildings that will preserve them from destruction when God’s appointed time comes to send retribution on men for their disregard of His law and for their selfish ambition. {9T 13.2}

=============================

So there is the rise of the united states to world superpower - which it was most certainly "not" in the mid 1800's

There is the Blaire Ammendment

And there is the event in NY City.

But there are also others --- for example one that has yet to happen in Nashville regarding fireballs falling from the sky -- with fiery arrows (Not sure if that is MRV or not) splitting out from them and causing destruction.

 

[BobRyan]

You did not answer my question, but instead went on to expound the reasons why the United States is indeed the world's super power...

English is from England...

The US dollar became a standard just in recent history,

1. What you predict in the future is not at issue here. We are talking about what we actually see in real life and what Ellen White predicted -- since you are the one asking about what she predicted.

2. English is not a Russian standard. Your suggestion that Russia is an alternate "super power" not the United States -- is not helped by noting that even in Russia english is the internation standard for pilots. If your argument is switching to the idea that America is not the superpower bur rather England is it -- feel free to try and get that one off the ground.

The health claims are also not true, someone else published that hundreds of years before she lived:

Dr Eleazar Duncon, 1606, wrote that tobacco "...is so hurtful and dangerous to youth that it might have the pernicious nature expressed in the name, and that it were as well known by the name of Youths-bane as by the name of tobacco".

Even one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, Dr. Benjamin Rush, claimed tobacco use (including smoking) negatively impacted health, and this was back in 1798.

If you notice the actual detail in my statement I did not say " Ellen White stated that tobacco was not good for your health". -- I pointed out that your claim that it is all in the Law of Moses is not supported - because nothing in the Law of Moses links tobacco to cancer. In fact Moses did not even have a tobacco plant to deal with at all.

=====================================

Legacy Appendix B - MEDICAL SCIENCE CONFIRMS E. G. WHITE'S COUNSELS

In 1864 Mrs. White said: "Tobacco is a poison of the most deceitful and malignant kind, having an exciting, then a paralyzing influence upon the nerves of the body. It is all the more dangerous because its effects upon the system are so slow, and at first scarcely perceivable. Multitudes have fallen victims to its poisonous influence. They have surely murdered themselves by this slow poison."35

This was at a time when "Cigarettes where medicine" as the standard in medical science at the time. Getting smoke into the lungs was viewed as "idea" regardless of whether it was toboacco or not.


==============article medicated cigarettes
When Cigarettes Were Medicine: Looking Back on a Popular Asthma Treatment

this pharmacy had been around since the previous century, you start to find interesting products.

One item that caught my attention was Page’s Inhalers. When I first saw them, I thought they were just cigarettes; however, upon closer inspection, I was confounded. They were medicated cigarettes meant for “the temporary relief of paroxysms of asthma…hay fever, and simple nasal irritations.”

The directions are jarring: “Exhaust the lungs of air, then fill the mouth with smoke and take a deep breath, drawing the smoke down into the lungs. Hold a few seconds, then exhale, through mouth and nostrils. Prescribed dosage 4 a day.”
===================== end of article

If you have the accepted view that in 1864 it was commonly accepted that Tobacco was a form of poison - go ahead and show it.


Eating meat - was the accepted recommended diet:


The Typical American Family Diet in 1908 | Livestrong.com
"In the early 1900s, the United States was vastly agricultural and many families lived off the land, cultivating their own vegetable and herb gardens and raising their own livestock and poultry. Hunting and fishing provided wild game and other meat alternatives. Meat was a mainstay of the 1908 American diet. Culinary researcher Lynne Olver lists veal, steak, roast beef, hamburger, ham, oysters, clams, flounder, mackerel, codfish and shad as typical spring menu items."

Ellen White's statement

"Often if they could see the animals when living and know the quality of the meat they eat, they would turn from it with loathing. People are continually eating flesh that is filled with tuberculous and cancerous germs. Tuberculosis, cancer, and other fatal diseases are thus communicated."12 {CG 382.3}

Effects Not Immediately Realized—"The effects of a flesh diet may not be immediately realized, but this is no evidence that it is not harmful. Few can be made to believe that it is the meat they have eaten which has poisoned their blood and caused their suffering. Many die of diseases wholly due to meat eating, while the real cause is not suspected by themselves or by others.13 {CG 382.4}"

Nobody wrote that in the 1800's other than Ellen White and she was heavily criticized for doing so at the time.

======================================

These were not just "lucky guesses" - her health statements ran against the popular medicine of the day and the sanitariums she established had a "record" of beating everything else America had at the time. As that article showed. In fact the therapy she promoted for improving the immune system is still to this day being used in ICU

 

[BobRyan]

The bible tells us, that there will be many rulers in the end, yet she did not say anything about it

On the contrary she was very explicit that no efforts to reunite the nations would work -

, but seems to be contradicting it, by saying that the United States is the ruler (which it isn't).

There is no "United State is the ruler" in anything I have said or anything she said.

details matter.

The U.S. is the single super power - but does not make it "the ruler" of the world.

The health claims are also not true, someone else published that hundreds of years before she lived:

Dr Eleazar Duncon, 1606, wrote that tobacco "...is so hurtful and dangerous to youth that it might have the pernicious nature expressed in the name, and that it were as well known by the name of Youths-bane as by the name of tobacco".

Even one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, Dr. Benjamin Rush, claimed tobacco use (including smoking) negatively impacted health, and this was back in 1798.

Please, a conversation like this is not fruitful.

Those statements are good examples of NOT saying "Tobacco is a poison" .. Her claims were much more specific.

And please, stop alluding to health claims, and treatments of diseases, because the discovery of the treatment of a disease is not evidence of prophetic sanction, nor do I believe she has discovered any--so it would be truly moot to mention it, because of the above grounds.

Sadly that speculation is not all accurate in reflecting the state of medicine in the 19th century.

In the 1800's people went to hospitals "to die". It was much safer to have a doctor visit you at home than to go the hospital.

By contrast the Sanitariums Ellen White established were so successful that the President of the United States and many other leaders in our nations sought them out. They did very well even with the Spanish Flu of 1918 as compared to even the best hospitals of today dealing with Corona virus. And the Spanish flu was 10x more deadly killing 10x the number of people in America as the current estimates are for deaths expected from the Corona virus.

You are hand waiving all the "facts" out the window when the history of it shows you are mistaken.

 

[BobRyan]

As far as rules for healthy living, God made those plain to Moses...

What end time details are you referring to?

How the world ends... what exactly happens to bring on the 7 last plagues of Rev 16, what is the mark of the beast, how the message of the 3 angels of Rev 14 brings about the end of the world, what is Satan's last deception for mankind that gets all the world to follow after him even Christians. What happens during the millennium, the description of judgment in heaven, the detailed description of the great white throne judgment of Rev 20.

And then there is her description of the fall of Lucifer and the war in heaven prior to the fall of mankind in the garden of Eden.

There is her prediction in the 1800's about America becoming the one world super power, predictions about the Protestants in America who were in the 1800's absolutely opposed to Catholicism - finally burying the hatchet and joining arms with the Catholic church to accomplish common goals.
==============================================

I notice that you ask why Ellen White is of interest to Adventists - then when you get that answer above - you drop it.

What is up with that?

I specifically stated, and clearly, that I was not seeking a conversation about these things, but about Ellen White, and her scriptural interpretations, and of course, any actual predictions of the future that she might of made... ...why didn't she say anything about something that someone else didn't already say, and before she did?
.

What is it about her singular statements regarding future events - that you think everyone else is also expecting?

 

[Religiot]

Some exceptions:
Miriam
The 70 elders of Israel
Elihu
King Saul
Gad
Some of the sons of Asaph, Heman, and Jeduthun
Agur son of Jakeh
Shemaiah
Azariah
Zechariah, the son of Jehoiada the priest
Etc., etc...

Just because the scriptures we currently have do not cite the actual prophesy does not mean that they did not prophesy...

How did you imagine that a prophet can be a prophet without prophesying?

Did you not know that we do not have a single prophesy of the prophet Iddo, yet he wrote several books no longer extant?

Furthermore, are you also ignorant of how God defines a prophet?

If your pathetic sarcasm is due to your profound ignorance, then please, read the following for some relief:

"And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream." --Numbers 12:6

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." --Deuteronomy 13:1-5

"And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." --Deuteronomy 18:21-22

 

[Religiot]

How the world ends... what exactly happens to bring on the 7 last plagues of Rev 16, what is the mark of the beast, how the message of the 3 angels of Rev 14 brings about the end of the world, what is Satan's last deception for mankind that gets all the world to follow after him even Christians. What happens during the millennium, the description of judgment in heaven, the detailed description of the great white throne judgment of Rev 20.

And then there is her description of the fall of Lucifer and the war in heaven prior to the fall of mankind in the garden of Eden.

There is her prediction in the 1800's about America becoming the one world super power, predictions about the Protestants in America who were in the 1800's absolutely opposed to Catholicism - finally burying the hatchet and joining arms with the Catholic church to accomplish common goals.
==============================================

I notice that you ask why Ellen White is of interest to Adventists - then when you get that answer above - you drop it.

What is up with that?



What is it about her singular statements regarding future events - that you think everyone else is also expecting?

Brother, I did not see how her prediction of buildings burning down--an exceedingly common occurance--proves that she predicted the events of 9/11.

--Mentioning the unusual way they came crashing down, and the cause of their falling, the planes, which didn't exist at the time, etc, would've made her statement a true prediction, but no, brother, instead she says they burned as if they were made of pitch---that's how buildings burned, before we started making them out of steel frames and concrete...

Brother, her statement is not describing the events of 9/11, you must see that... ...

She just said that tall buildings will burn... Brother, this she said after the great fires of 1835, and the subsequent building boom that followed it, which was between the 1840's and 1850's, and continued at a feverish pace to this very day...

Brother, she said nothing, nothing at all, more than any fortune teller would say...

I'm sorry, but if that's the only prediction you've got, then you haven't got a prediction.

 

[BobRyan]

Brother, I did not see how her prediction of buildings burning down--an exceedingly common occurance--proves that she predicted the events of 9/11.

Ignoring every detail in that 9T11 prediction so that "this happens every day" is a good any-ol-excuse-will-do solution for you. I am quite happy to hand this to the unbiased objective reader who will see such details as

1. New York City,
2. buildings were warranted to be fireproof
3. Higher and still higher these buildings rose,
4. the most costly material was used.
5. Men looked at the lofty and supposedly fire-proof buildings and said: “They are perfectly safe.”

As compared to

1. Tallest buildings
2. NY city
3. Warranted to be able to withstand direct hit by commercial air plane
4. FAQ #2: Were the Twin Towers designed to withstand the impact of the airplanes?
Both technical calculations and testimony from World Trade Center structural engineers confirm that the Twin Towers were built to withstand the impact from the passenger jets that hit them on 9/11.

Airplane impact tests conducted by WTC structural engineers during the design of the Twin Towers used the Boeing 707, which was one of the largest passenger jets in the world at the time. The results of the test, carried out early in 1964, calculated that the towers would handle the impact of a 707 traveling at 600 mph without collapsing.


=================================

-->Her 9/11 statement about the events in NY.

The enemy has succeeded in perverting justice and in filling men’s hearts with the desire for selfish gain. “Justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.” Isaiah 59:14. In the great cities there are multitudes living in poverty and wretchedness, well-nigh destitute of food, shelter, and clothing; while in the same cities are those who have more than heart could wish, who live luxuriously, spending their money on richly furnished houses, on personal adornment, or worse still, upon the gratification of sensual appetites, upon liquor, tobacco, and other things that destroy the powers of the brain, unbalance the mind, and debase the soul. The cries of starving humanity are coming up before God, while by every species of oppression and extortion men are piling up colossal fortunes. {9T 11.4}
On one occasion, when in New York City, I was in the night season called upon to behold buildings rising story after story toward heaven. These buildings were warranted to be fireproof, and they were erected to glorify their owners and builders. Higher and still higher these buildings rose, and in them the most costly material was used. Those to whom these buildings belonged were not asking themselves: “How can we best glorify God?” The Lord was not in their thoughts. {9T 12.1}
I thought: “Oh, that those who are thus investing their means could see their course as God sees it! They are piling up magnificent buildings, but how foolish in the sight of the Ruler of the universe is their planning and devising. They are not studying with all the powers of heart and mind how they may glorify God. They have lost sight of this, the first duty of man.” {9T 12.2}
As these lofty buildings went up, the owners rejoiced with ambitious pride that they had money to use in gratifying self and provoking the envy of their neighbors. Much of the money that they thus invested had been obtained through exaction, through grinding down the poor. They forgot that in heaven an account of every business transaction is kept; every unjust deal, every fraudulent act, is there recorded. The time is coming when in their fraud and insolence men will reach a point that the Lord will not permit them to pass, and they will learn that there is a limit to the forbearance of Jehovah. {9T 12.3}
The scene that next passed before me was an alarm of fire. Men looked at the lofty and supposedly fire-proof buildings and said: “They are perfectly safe.” But these buildings were consumed as if made of pitch. The fire engines could do nothing to stay the destruction. The firemen were unable to operate the engines. {9T 13.1}
I am instructed that when the Lord’s time comes, should no change have taken place in the hearts of proud, ambitious human beings, men will find that the hand that had been strong to save will be strong to destroy. No earthly power can stay the hand of God. No material can be used in the erection of buildings that will preserve them from destruction when God’s appointed time comes to send retribution on men for their disregard of His law and for their selfish ambition. {9T 13.2}

======================================

Brother, she said nothing, nothing at all, more than any fortune teller would say...
I'm sorry, but if that's the only prediction you've got, then you haven't got a prediction.

Your prediction that handing the irrefutable evidence above to the unbiased objective reader won't result in people actually being able to see that a "prediction as made and then was fulfilled" - is fine for you to make.

I am quite happy to hand this to the unbiased objective reader who will see that such details above are in fact "conclusive" for the point being made.

My argument is not that this is evidence to a deny-all any-ol-excuse-will-do opposer. But the average reasonable person will "get the point".

The only reason I even discuss this with you is that you asked for it. Most people go for the actual Bible discussion I was pointing to - that you are avoiding.

Adventist believe that everyone has free will to choose as they wish - and so you can choose to accept or reject anything you wish.

 

[BobRyan]

There is her prediction in the 1800's about America becoming the one world super power, arising after the dark ages and after the rise of the French empire..., predictions about the Protestants in America who were in the 1800's absolutely opposed to Catholicism - finally burying the hatchet and joining arms with the Catholic church to accomplish common goals.

Brother, super powers come and go, and not all agree as to who is the super power: Vladamir Putin will tell you that Russia is obviously the world's super power,

The "Soviet Union" used to claim that. But it broke up.

1. International currency is currently the U.S. Dollar not the "Ruble".
2. International language for pilots is "English" even in Russia.
2. The U.S. economy and budget is 6 times that of Russia.
4. The U.S. Exports are 3 times that of Russia, U.S. GDP is 8 times that of Russia.
5. The U.S. military budget is larger than the next nine countries combined.

You are making Putin sound like "Baghdad Bob" in your claim above. I don't think that refutes Ellen White's claim

United Nations are the world's current superpower; for it is their influence that can be shown to be ever increasing, while independent countries are simply equalizing...

the U.S. not only pays to host the UN - it is the largest overall funder at $14.1 billion per year, providing 22 percent of the sample’s resources. The U.K. is the second-largest funder at $7.6 billion.

The point is not "which nation" just that the prediction was made and it came about and more of that prediction will come about.

Brother, she said nothing, nothing at all, more than any fortune teller would say...
I'm sorry, but if that's the only prediction you've got, then you haven't got a prediction.

Ignoring every detail in that statement about the US being the single super power in the World dominant without equal - is a good any-ol-excuse-will-do solution for you.

Your prediction that handing the irrefutable evidence above to the unbiased objective reader won't result in people actually being able to see that a "prediction as made and then was fulfilled" - is fine for you to make.

I am quite happy to hand this to the unbiased objective reader who will see that such details as follows are in fact "conclusive" for the point being made.

1. International currency is currently the U.S. Dollar not the "Ruble".
2. International language for pilots is "English" even in Russia.
2. The U.S. economy and budget is 6 times that of Russia.
4. The U.S. Exports are 3 times that of Russia, U.S. GDP is 8 times that of Russia.
5. The U.S. military budget is larger than the next nine countries combined.
===================================

My argument is not that this is evidence to a deny-all any-ol-excuse-will-do opposer. But the average reasonable person will "get the point".

The only reason I even discuss this with you is that you asked for it. Most people go for the actual Bible discussion I was pointing to - that you are avoiding.

Adventist believe that everyone has free will to choose as they wish - and so you can choose to accept or reject anything you wish.

 

[BobRyan]

For reference The Blair Sunday-Rest Bill

She also predicted a great many other things regarding the way the world ends. .. she predicted the Blair amendment scenario (6th of April, 1886 ) and Ellen White asked that the church pray against it - because its time had not yet come. So it was defeated but she predicted it will return and will succeed in the end.

Brother, she said nothing, nothing at all, more than any fortune teller would say...
I'm sorry, but if that's the only prediction you've got, then you haven't got a prediction.

===================================

My argument is not that this is evidence to a deny-all any-ol-excuse-will-do opposer. But the average reasonable person will "get the point".

Your prediction that handing the irrefutable evidence above to the unbiased objective reader won't result in people actually being able to see that a "prediction as made and then was fulfilled" - is fine for you to make.

I am quite happy to hand this to the unbiased objective reader who will see that such details above are in fact "conclusive" for the point being made.

The only reason I even discuss this with you is that you asked for it. Most people go for the actual Bible discussion I was pointing to - that you are avoiding.

Adventist believe that everyone has free will to choose as they wish - and so you can choose to accept or reject anything you wish.

 

[BobRyan]

you posted this...

Ellen White? Why should any care about what she says?

I responded with this

1. Seventh-day Adventists have sola-scriptura tested her doctrine and found it to be Bible-approved.
2. Having a prophet of God give information/instruction right at a crisis point in Earth's history is exactly what we see with Noah at the world-wide flood... with Moses at the Exodus/Sinai/Israel event. And with John the baptizer at the coming of the Messiah.
3. The result of paying attention to a prophet that God sends in the last days -- is that as Christianity Today points out - the Seventh-day Adventist church is now the fifth largest Christian denomination in the world and the fastest growing Christian denomination in America.

So clearly "Adventists would care" about the subject.

==============================

My answer deals with the fact that as a prophet sent in the last days the messages God gave her about how the world ends - is "significant". You switched to "a predicted event that has already happened". So I have you 3 examples as well as proven health message results. But my focus in the answer above is about the future and the end of the world.

It does not look like you are interested in the details of that answer so far. You seem to avoid the response altogether.

 

[Religiot]

you posted this...




I responded with this

1. Seventh-day Adventists have sola-scriptura tested her doctrine and found it to be Bible-approved.
2. Having a prophet of God give information/instruction right at a crisis point in Earth's history is exactly what we see with Noah at the world-wide flood... with Moses at the Exodus/Sinai/Israel event. And with John the baptizer at the coming of the Messiah.
3. The result of paying attention to a prophet that God sends in the last days -- is that as Christianity Today points out - the Seventh-day Adventist church is now the fifth largest Christian denomination in the world and the fastest growing Christian denomination in America.

So clearly "Adventists would care" about the subject.

==============================

My answer deals with the fact that as a prophet sent in the last days the messages God gave her about how the world ends - is "significant". You switched to "a predicted event that has already happened". So I have you 3 examples as well as proven health message results. But my focus in the answer above is about the future and the end of the world.

It does not look like you are interested in the details of that answer so far. You seem to avoid the response altogether.

Fair enough.

I do appreciate your responses, and I will consider it further.

What is the name of the publication that contains Mrs. White's prediction on 9/11?

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Just because the scriptures we currently have do not cite the actual prophesy does not mean that they did not prophesy...

It certainly doesn't do much to support the "All prophets, without exception, predict the future" claim, either. By the way, genuine divine prophecies are not predictions. They are accounts of history, foretold. There is a huge difference.

How did you imagine that a prophet can be a prophet without prophesying?

Because the word "prophesy" has more than one definition. No imagination necessary.

Did you not know that we do not have a single prophesy of the prophet Iddo, yet he wrote several books no longer extant?

I am aware. So what?

Furthermore, are you also ignorant of how God defines a prophet?

The fact that we don't agree or communicate well on the subject of prophets, prophecy, and prophesying doesn't make me ignorant. It just means that we have come to different conclusions based on our individual Bible study.

If your pathetic sarcasm is due to your profound ignorance, then please, read the following for some relief:

Your hostility towards me is unfounded, and unnecessary, I assure you.

"And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream." --Numbers 12:6

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." --Deuteronomy 13:1-5

"And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." --Deuteronomy 18:21-22

I have read the above many, many times, and have even recommended it to others, but I have not drawn the same conclusions from it that you apparently have. Brother. (I seem to have lost that distinction.)

 

[Religiot]

It certainly doesn't do much to support the "All prophets, without exception, predict the future" claim, either. By the way, genuine divine prophecies are not predictions. They are accounts of history, foretold. There is a huge difference.

Because the word "prophesy" has more than one definition. No imagination necessary.

I am aware. So what?

The fact that we don't agree or communicate well on the subject of prophets, prophecy, and prophesying doesn't make me ignorant. It just means that we have come to different conclusions based on our individual Bible study.



I have read the above many, many times, and have even recommended it to others, but I have not drawn the same conclusions from it that you apparently have. Brother. (I seem to have lost that distinction.)

Sarcasm is hostility, and because you continued to show unfounded hostility towards me, I recognized it as pathetic.

I don't know what your problem is, and at this point I don't really care: to me you've lost any credibility, and any further conversation, without an apology, would be under a pretense more pathetic than your unfounded aggression.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Sarcasm is hostility, and because you continued to show unfounded hostility towards me, I recognized it as pathetic.

I don't know what your problem is, and at this point I don't really care: to me you've lost any credibility, and any further conversation, without an apology, would be under a pretense more pathetic than your unfounded aggression.

Sarcasm is hostility.

I'd really like to visit your planet someday.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

My credibility is inconsequential. Let God be true but every man a liar.

The truth is the truth even when mean people speak it.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.”
1 Kings 18:27

 

[Religiot]

At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.”
1 Kings 18:27

Hey joker, we are on the same planet, and Elijah's mocking and sarcasm were indeed true hostility--did you forget he then killed them all?

Again, I don't know, or care, what your problem is, but trust me on this, you're not making yourself look good in our conversation; so you ought to simply go bother someone else.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

-

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Elijah's mocking and sarcasm were indeed true hostility--did you forget he then killed them all?

See, now, again you've mistaken me for someone who doesn't think things through. How do we know he was in the same frame of mind when he mocked them as he was when he killed them?

Again, I don't know, or care, what your problem is, but trust me on this, you're not making yourself look good in our conversation; so you ought to simply go bother someone else.

And, again, I'm not in the slightest bit interested in making myself look good. But are you sure you don't care? Because you've had several chances to ignore me.

Hey joker, we are on the same planet,

Name-calling now, is it? Nice.