What defines modest clothing?

[Sammy-San]

I created a similar thread in another subforum-and this is not a duplicate thread-its simply a discussion of the same topic from a different perspective. From a bibical perspective, what do you think determines modest clothing?

The most common thing Christians say is "cultural standards". But that doesnt make it a clear cut issue either. While very few cultures today (except for a few primitive ones) walk around naked, they still have modesty standards that doesnt seem quite right.

For example, in Europe, women wearing nothing to cover their top is culturally acceptable at beaches. Does the fact that "everybody else is doing it" there, make it right for a Christian there to do it? I would argue not.

At the same time, some cultures, like in Victorian England, they were strange and had wierd standards, and even if a woman wore a dress that showed the knee, it was considered "sexual"

If a person or group of people (Christian or otherwise), living in that time period, disagreed with their wierd cultural standards and wore a dress that extended down to the ankle, would they be commiting a sin by not dressing modestly? I assume not.

So what do you think determines modest-culture, or other factors?

 

[1watchman]

Well, one thing is that God said a woman should not wear "...that which pertaineth to a man"; and we should consider that in our society we have work (labor) clothes, casual clothes, and dress clothes --informal and formal.

One should decide what to wear as to conscience, which I think is in coming to worship at the Lord's table such as we would before a dignitary (maybe to the White House) or to a formal wedding, etc. Street clothes with all manner of advertisements written on one's clothes and attire that shows off the body is offensive to God, I am sure; however, I realize some cannot afford any kind of formal attire, and the Lord looks on the heart. He knows when one is trying to honor Him or not.

There is much rationale on this, for most professing young people do not want anyone to tell them what to do, and reject all social standards. It is between one and God, not me.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

what yhvh says is what is . if he says it is immodest or improper or wrong even if not immodest, then it is wrong, no matter what anyone else says.

 

[walkinginthelightnow]

Any type of revealing clothing that initiates lust in the opposite sex...or same sex now days.


**EDIT** The above is referencing immodest dress.

 

[food4thought]

I think that culture does define what is modest within certain limits...

For example, western clothing would not be appropriately modest in many middle eastern cultures, yet perfectly acceptable in Russia. The European moor of topless sunbathing would not be modest anywhere... nudity is not modesty, and I doubt even topless sunbathers would say otherwise.

Super short shorts might be perfectly acceptable to some, yet I doubt anyone would call them modest (ok, maybe some teenage girls would say they were, but deep down they would know they weren't). Speedo's might be ok to some, but even they would not go so far as to call them modest.

This is one of those areas that makes it clear to us that no set of laws would ever be able to direct us in righteousness in every situation. As Rom 8:14 tells us: "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." So it is with modesty as it is in everything else.

 

[Sammy-San]

I think that culture does define what is modest within certain limits...

For example, western clothing would not be appropriately modest in many middle eastern cultures, yet perfectly acceptable in Russia. The European moor of topless sunbathing would not be modest anywhere... nudity is not modesty, and I doubt even topless sunbathers would say otherwise.

Super short shorts might be perfectly acceptable to some, yet I doubt anyone would call them modest (ok, maybe some teenage girls would say they were, but deep down they would know they weren't). Speedo's might be ok to some, but even they would not go so far as to call them modest.

This is one of those areas that makes it clear to us that no set of laws would ever be able to direct us in righteousness in every situation. As Rom 8:14 tells us: "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." So it is with modesty as it is in everything else.

In the Middle East, a woman showing even her face is considered immodest by some people. So why are you saying culture determines modesty, if some cultures have crazy rules about what is modest or not?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

yhvh is even stricter than the middle east culture, so they have a good head start, humanly speaking, in modesty , over and by far better than the usa or europe

 

[Sammy-San]

yhvh is even stricter than the middle east culture, so they have a good head start, humanly speaking, in modesty , over and by far better than the usa or europe

I agree that Americans are too immodest, but dont you think people in the middle east are excessive? They even hide women when they eat in restaurants in Saudi Arabia, and in Iran, even if a woman shows some hair and the headscarf doesnt cover her head totally, she gets arrested.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

excessive? what if it means God's Life, and salvation ? isn't the price of eternal life worth far far more than temporal excesses?

excessive? God knows what He's doing - it's men who complicate and confuse things.
remember this: (there's a severe lesson in mercy here; more reading is needed to see the overall context and God's Purpose, especially because today's audience doesn't remember slavery in egypt(that they may still be in!@figuratively as slaves of sin) and the Divine miracles for their Deliverance and Freedom in the Exodus) >>
Numbers 15:32-36King James Version (KJV)

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.

 

[Sammy-San]

excessive? what if it means God's Life, and salvation ? isn't the price of eternal life worth far far more than temporal excesses?

excessive? God knows what He's doing - it's men who complicate and confuse things.
remember this: (there's a severe lesson in mercy here; more reading is needed to see the overall context and God's Purpose, especially because today's audience doesn't remember slavery in egypt(that they may still be in!@figuratively as slaves of sin) and the Divine miracles for their Deliverance and Freedom in the Exodus) >>
Numbers 15:32-36King James Version (KJV)

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.

What does salvation, and Moses stoning people who broke the law, have anything to do with the topic of this thread about modesty? I dont get it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God is strict. He put down the rules for His people (not for the world) to do.

people don't have to. they aren't His.

His people had trouble. Jesus died and rose again

so His people could have Life.

He gave people, His people, a new heart, with His Torah/ Instructions/ Love written on their hearts,

so they love to do , joyfully and willingly, what He wants, instead of rebelling and sinning and being continually selfish.

the world keeps right on being continually selfish.

His people don't.

that is grace !

 

[Sammy-San]

God is strict. He put down the rules for His people (not for the world) to do.

people don't have to. they aren't His.

His people had trouble. Jesus died and rose again

so His people could have Life.

He gave people, His people, a new heart, with His Torah/ Instructions/ Love written on their hearts,

so they love to do , joyfully and willingly, what He wants, instead of rebelling and sinning and being continually selfish.

the world keeps right on being continually selfish.

His people don't.

that is grace !

Muslims serve a false god. So why are you comparing God's harsh actions in their Bible, to the way women are treated in muslim countries? God isnt telling them to do what theyre doing.

 

[food4thought]

In the Middle East, a woman showing even her face is considered immodest by some people. So why are you saying culture determines modesty, if some cultures have crazy rules about what is modest or not?

I did say within certain limits, didn't I? My point was not that man could supplant God's view of modesty, but that within the limits that God sets, which cannot be found in laws or hard and fast rules, but only by being led by the Spirit in every situation, there is room for differing cultural standards. And I would also add that, within Godly standards, there is some room for adjusting our standards of modesty to accommodate another society's standard for the sake of the gospel.

I am not saying that burqa's should be a standard for modesty even in Islamic nations, or that female missionaries should subject themselves to that standard; but I am saying that things God would accept as modest enough might be considered too revealing within the context of middle eastern culture, and Christian missionaries should be cognizant of that for the sake of not causing unnecessary offense. Not wearing burqas is a necessary offense to their sensibilities, IMO, because it makes a statement about human dignity that the gospel upholds, but that is another topic altogether...

 

[1watchman]

I don't think one can compare dress and modesty with Islamic or other such religions in the world, for God does not regard them. We in the Christian world need to think about honoring God in all that we say or do or think. I agree that we should not be judging such things in those outside the Church --rather, regarding what is proper for the Bride of Christ.

 

[BryanW92]

I don't think one can compare dress and modesty with Islamic or other such religions in the world, for God does not regard them. We in the Christian world need to think about honoring God in all that we say or do or think. I agree that we should not be judging such things in those outside the Church --rather, regarding what is proper for the Bride of Christ.

Good point. They have to suppress sex drives using whatever earthly tools that can find because they are not guided by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Natural Man can run amok in Islamic culture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

just like it does in america. ... go figure....

 

[Sammy-San]

just like it does in america. ... go figure....

Why are you comparing America to the middle east? I dont quite get what youre saying.

 

[BryanW92]

just like it does in america. ... go figure....

Yes, just like in modern America--a nation founded on Puritan principles with a government designed after the polity of the Presbyterian church, that has abandoned its Christian roots in the last 50 years to celebrate the Natural Man.

But, we still have plenty of people in this country who are influenced by the Holy Spirit. In Islam, a political system that pretends to be a religion, they have nothing but Natural Man.

 

[BryanW92]

Why are you comparing America to the middle east? I dont quite get what youre saying.

Jeff is like this guy, but for Jewish stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seN7AKSwMFU

 

[Sammy-San]

I did say within certain limits, didn't I? My point was not that man could supplant God's view of modesty, but that within the limits that God sets, which cannot be found in laws or hard and fast rules, but only by being led by the Spirit in every situation, there is room for differing cultural standards. And I would also add that, within Godly standards, there is some room for adjusting our standards of modesty to accommodate another society's standard for the sake of the gospel.

I am not saying that burqa's should be a standard for modesty even in Islamic nations, or that female missionaries should subject themselves to that standard; but I am saying that things God would accept as modest enough might be considered too revealing within the context of middle eastern culture, and Christian missionaries should be cognizant of that for the sake of not causing unnecessary offense. Not wearing burqas is a necessary offense to their sensibilities, IMO, because it makes a statement about human dignity that the gospel upholds, but that is another topic altogether...

By "certain limits", what exactly do you mean by that? Elaborate.