• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

what defines a "Jew"

Michaelismyname

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
963
25
✟1,230.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Ok i hope this is the correct place to ask this .

I'm just wanting clarification.

in the modern age a person born and raised in Israel is considered and Israeli ..rather generally speaking (i'm sure some other races born and breed there would certainly not say the same )

I always thought a "Jew" is a gentile description given to descendants of the tribe of Judah
and/or people of 'Abrahamic' decent who lived in the "land of Judah"

But I often hear people saying that a "Jew" is one who believes in the religion of Judaism - that doesn't make as much sense to me .
I believe utterly that the descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob are alive and well and that God knows exactly who they are .

--anyways , back to the term "Jew" - Derived from judaism the religion -or Judah the people ?

thanks in advance

--------------------------------
May the Lord most High ,the God of Abraham and Isaac , bless Israel and do all that is his perfect will in Her and preserve her unto his glory and give her peace -
 

Temptinfates

Newbie
Mar 5, 2010
373
42
Cartersville, Georgia
✟23,238.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Depends on who you ask, really..lol.
Some say that it describes the people from the land of Judea. Some say from the tribe of Judah. The "J" sound wasn't really used in English till the 1500's. Some say only Rabbinic Judaism defines a Jew. Some use the word to describe anyone from any tribe of Israel as opposed to just Judah. Since many Jews have mixed with the Nations over many years, people find out that they have an ancestor that was "Jewish".

Judaism 101: Who Is a Jew? for starters

Temptinfates
 
Upvote 0

Michaelismyname

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
963
25
✟1,230.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Ty for the link - I have to dwell on it and ask the Lord . in my heart i sense that it is a blood line in the physical and those who believe in the Lord Jesus- Yeshua and are born again of the Spirit of God (not something that a man can do, it is done by God by faith )
are grafted in as the spiritual Israel

since it is prophesied that all Israel will be saved (come to fully comprehend who the messiah is and fully embrace him ) that they too will move from the Physical Israel to the eternal spiritual Israel by that same spiritual rebirth (born again)and all will be unified in the Messiah ,.. which all makes sense to me somehow because God is really big on reconciliation and unity .
 
Upvote 0

xDenax

Jewish
Jul 20, 2009
3,675
378
United States
✟28,510.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
in the modern age a person born and raised in Israel is considered and Israeli ..rather generally speaking (i'm sure some other races born and breed there would certainly not say the same )

Neither Jew or Israeli is a race.

I always thought a "Jew" is a gentile description given to descendants of the tribe of Judah
and/or people of 'Abrahamic' decent who lived in the "land of Judah"

You never noticed Jews call themselves Jews? I'm confused.

But I often hear people saying that a "Jew" is one who believes in the religion of Judaism

Yeah, if they were born Jewish or converted to become part of the Jewish people. Merely believing the Jewish religion is true does not make one Jewish. You must be born to a Jewish mother or formally convert to become a part of the Jewish community. I don't think anyone means that just believing Judaism is true makes someone Jewish? But you do not have to be able to trace your ancestors back thousands of years to one particular person, either.

I believe utterly that the descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob are alive and well and that God knows exactly who they are .

Then why ask?
 
Upvote 0

Michaelismyname

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
963
25
✟1,230.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Then why ask?
to clarify the use of the terminology- what one believes and what the facts are can differ can they not ?


You never noticed Jews call themselves Jews? I'm confused.
- Actually
I have personally met one Jew who refereed to themselves as a "Jew" . i have met a few folk born and raised in Israel .. and when I asked them how they referred to themselves they said " we are Israeli " .. so why would you find it confusing that i sought clarification?

Neither Jew or Israeli is a race.

oh sure ..i suppose Chinese don't exist either -if i choose to convince myself they don't exist . NZ Maori are not a race either are they ? haha you are kind of funny .
If Abraham existed .. which he did .. and had children .. which he did .. then every one who descended from that line is a Race of people .. which it is .
if it is not the case - then you probably don't exist either - in which case i may have to ignore you .
 
Upvote 0

xDenax

Jewish
Jul 20, 2009
3,675
378
United States
✟28,510.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
- Actually
I have personally met one Jew who refereed to themselves as a "Jew" . i have met a few folk born and raised in Israel .. and when I asked them how they referred to themselves they said " we are Israeli " .. so why would you find it confusing that i sought clarification?

Because Jews refer to themselves as Jews all the time. It's very common. Perhaps you live in a country where it isn't. Perhaps you just don't know any Jews. I don't know the details but yes, I find it strange.

Edit: I see you live in New Zealand which as a country has a Jewish population smaller than my city alone. This could perhaps explain things. Maybe.

oh sure ..i suppose Chinese don't exist either -if i choose to convince myself they don't exist . NZ Maori are not a race either are they ? haha you are kind of funny .
If Abraham existed .. which he did .. and had children .. which he did .. then every one who descended from that line is a Race of people .. which it is .
if it is not the case - then you probably don't exist either - in which case i may have to ignore you .

:doh:
 
Upvote 0

ChavaK

להיות טוב ולעשות טוב
May 12, 2005
8,524
1,804
US
✟174,080.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
Jewish definition of a Jew: someone who is born to a Jewish mother or who converts to Judaism. Reform also accepts someone who has only a Jewish father as long as they are actively raised in the faith, to the exclusion of all other religions.
 
Upvote 0

melohd

New Member
Dec 17, 2012
2
0
✟22,612.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Who is a Jew? Maybe we're asking the wrong question.
Messianic children and adults need to know where they fit in, where they belong. This is the true intent behind the who is a Jew question, isn't it?
Try this:

Ready for a different kind of Passover story? Great for most people of faith, join an Egyptian boy as the plagues begin to decimate his land and his family's livelyhood. He discovers first hand the mighty power of the God of the Hebrews which radically changes the way he percieves his own religion and learns to see them as more than just slaves. A story about prejudice, friendship, faith and freedom. Readers have said it has "very original treatment of the subject, never seen a book quite like this" and "I think you should rewrite the entire bible like this- people would understand it better". Also, "there is a richness and depth in this- I can see lots of great family discussions happening because of this book" and "thought provoking".
Diiscussion questions included at the end of the book, for use in homeschools or as a devotional.

Coming Out Of Egypt (I Am A Friend Of Israel): Melody Manwell: Amazon.com: Kindle Store

Show Less Show More
 
Upvote 0

Qnts2

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2012
1,323
111
✟2,056.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Who is a Jew? Maybe we're asking the wrong question.
Messianic children and adults need to know where they fit in, where they belong. This is the true intent behind the who is a Jew question, isn't it?

The determination of who is a Jew has nothing to do with Messianic Gentiles knowing where they fit in. It might be a question that some Messianic Gentiles ask, but the answer of who is a Jew must come from the Jewish people. To be a member of the Jewish people, the Jewish people need to recognize the person as a member.

Since most of the Jewish people are not Messianic, Messianic Jews, in my opinion, need to agree with the greater Jewish community. Currently Messianic Judaism accepts as Jewish, anyone any branch of Judaism would consider Jewish.
 
Upvote 0

Temptinfates

Newbie
Mar 5, 2010
373
42
Cartersville, Georgia
✟23,238.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Qnts2

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2012
1,323
111
✟2,056.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Christianity Today Gleanings: Messianic Jews Win Citizenship Victory in Israel


Messianic Jews can now make Aliyah/Read Article

These Messianic Jews won acceptance as Jews and the right of return.
Not exactly sure of the dates, but these Messianic Jews were being denied at first due to believing in Yeshua as opposed to Judaism.
Temptinfates


If that is the case I am aware of, it is a very unusual situation.

The law of the right of return in Israel, is based on protecting people who have been persecuted for being Jewish.

In Israel, a person is Jewish if their mother is Jewish, or they have converted to be Jewish thru an recognized Orthodox bet din (Court). But, in Nazi Germany, a person was regarded as Jewish if they had a Jewish grandparent, so the Nazis considered people as Jewish, who were not Jewish.

So, Israel allows people who had a Jewish grandparent, the right of return, even though they are not legally considered Jewish.

When it comes to Messianic Judaism, which is inclusive of people accepted as Jewish by all branches of Judaism, Messianic Judaism sees people as Jewish who are not Jewish according to Orthodox Judaism which is the basis of the Israeli law.

Israel will more likely reject a Jewish person who is a Messianic Jew in the right to return laws. Israel will however allow a person (Gentile) who has a Jewish grandparent, the right of return, even though they practice Christianity. The suit was brought forth by Messianic Jews who do not fit the Orthodox definition of who is a Jew. According to Israeli law, they have the right of return even though they are Gentile, because of the Jewish grandparent. But they had been rejected because they practiced Messianic Judaism and were being regarded as Jewish. The Supreme Court case was because of the inconsistent application. They can't have the right of return as Gentiles who have a Jewish grandparent, and then be rejected as Jews who believe in Yeshua.

In Israel, Messianic Jews are often rejected under the law of the right of return. But, Messianic Jews can immigrate to Israel and gain Israeli citizenship thru other laws of immigration. They just can't use the law of the right of return, which includes some assistance for those immigrating, to help them get to Israel (the assistance might include a plane ticket, Hebrew lessons, an initial place to live, job hunting assistance).
 
Upvote 0

TheAlgierian

Junior Member
Jan 14, 2006
24
2
75
Lewisville,TX.
✟22,655.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I asked two of my Reformed Jewish family members and a friend that is a Jewish believer in Yeshua about this topic a while back. They said that a person that is born of a Mother that is of the tribe of Judah are culturally a Jew and may not follow Judaism. If a person that follows the faith of Judaism may be considered Jewish by faith.
 
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,429
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟187,250.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

xDenax

Jewish
Jul 20, 2009
3,675
378
United States
✟28,510.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I asked two of my Reformed Jewish family members

You mean Reform.

They said that a person that is born of a Mother that is of the tribe of Judah are culturally a Jew and may not follow Judaism. If a person that follows the faith of Judaism may be considered Jewish by faith.

A Jew is a Jew.
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
It's not necessary that you are asked to accept the DNA of the Israeli bloodline, it is only necessary that you preserve the DNA of the Israeli bloodline that you have already had (which can only be by faith).

Then you may consider yourself necessarily Jewish.
 
Upvote 0

Meowzltov

Freylekher Yid
Aug 3, 2014
18,606
4,466
64
Southern California
✟67,237.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Just as Christians define who a Christian is, so too Jews define who a Jew is. According to Jewish law, a Jew is one born of a Jewish mother or who has converted to Judaism. In Reform Judaism, they also include one born to a Jewish father, but ONLY if the child is raised Jewish (and I don't mean messianic).

We Jews are a People, not a race and not a religion. Think of it as a huge extended family. The easiest way to be part of the family is to be born into it. (Not everyone born into the family practices the family religion.) However, you can be adopted into it as well (conversion). Conversion means learning the history, culture, language, and adopting the religion of the family.
 
Upvote 0