What Day Of The Week Is The Sabbath?

KalEl76 said:

Well, I guess my soul is damned for a couple of reasons:

1) I like to go do things with my family on Saturday. I cut the grass, clean the yard, wash the care and other stuff.

2) I attend church on Sunday and rest that day.

Hell, all this time I thought I was following the will of God when in fact I was succumbing to Satan's desire to have me help with the youth ministry, bring my wife to the Lord and basically volunteer as a prison pen pal. Silly me, I'm a Satanist

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Don't worry, I believe that God gave us the 7th cycle that His Grace have provided by Jesus Christ when He died on the Cross and rose from the dead on the first day of the week.

I worship daily. I go to Church 1 to 2 times a week and I rest on the 7th day of my working cycle.

But if legalism teaches that Law is more powerful than Grace, then we will be punished by ???. I don't doubt God will punish since Christ died for all of our sins (past, present and future).

KalEl76 said:

Well, I guess my soul is damned for a couple of reasons:

1) I like to go do things with my family on Saturday. I cut the grass, clean the yard, wash the care and other stuff.


2) I attend church on Sunday and rest that day.


Hell, all this time I thought I was following the will of God when in fact I was succumbing to Satan's desire to have me help with the youth ministry, bring my wife to the Lord and basically volunteer as a prison pen pal. Silly me, I'm a Satanist

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Adventists and most other Sabbatarian groups do not say that you are lost for that. Someone serving God in all that they know is not sinful.

But sarcasm is a bit more questionable. Perhaps addressing the arguments instead of using these types of arguments would be helpful.

JimfromOhio said:

Don't worry, I believe that God gave us the 7th cycle that His Grace have provided by Jesus Christ when He died on the Cross and rose from the dead on the first day of the week.

I worship daily. I go to Church 1 to 2 times a week and I rest on the 7th day of my working cycle.

But if legalism teaches that Law is more powerful than Grace, then we will be punished by ???. I don't doubt God will punish since Christ died for all of our sins (past, present and future).

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Jim,

Let us look at what you have said so far.

a. Adventists have a lot of legalists. Though you didn't show why we were legalists.

b. That someone (apparently) said that law is more powerful than grace. Where does it say that in official Adventist teaching? Where have I said that? Where did you see that?

You called us legalists merely for proposing our position, in response to the OP. And then you went on to make a straw man argument that we are saying law is more powerful than grace.

Law is not more powerful than grace. And grace that is a license is hardly indicative of faith. Why not give facts that support your position rather than labels that you have not justified.

KalEl76 said:

Well, I guess my soul is damned for a couple of reasons:

1) I like to go do things with my family on Saturday. I cut the grass, clean the yard, wash the care and other stuff.

2) I attend church on Sunday and rest that day.

Hell, all this time I thought I was following the will of God when in fact I was succumbing to Satan's desire to have me help with the youth ministry, bring my wife to the Lord and basically volunteer as a prison pen pal. Silly me, I'm a Satanist

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I have know idea about you or where you stand with God. But we do know there are many out there who think they are upright and Godly, but will be told by God "I never knew you".

How does judgement work?.... if I think I'm worshipping correctly but inadvertantly disobeying him...or just simply doing it wrong do I get credit. I know the "credit" expression is rather shallow and simple but bear with me.

Let's use Christ' example of a marriage to see how it would appear to him. Why marriage? Both, 1. keeping of the Sabbath and 2. the woman were.... "MADE FOR MAN". Both the woman and the Sabbath were blessed and sanctified the day they were created. Unfaithfullness to woman/wife or unfaithfullness to the keeping the Sabbath are both included in the big 10 list.

Keep in mind that He says...
Ex 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Now you may argue that your not an Israelite, but I'm sure you know you'll have to reconile that with Paul, because he claims Christian's are inward Jews and Abraham's seed and many other bold claims repeating the same. But, that's probably another can of worms...

The point is; like a marriage, faithfullness to the covenant is key. If you told your wife you had made love to another woman but you did it to honor her and you thought it didn't matter to her...well hmmmm...I don't think you'd get the credit for it. Matter of fact... she just may consider you trying to convince her the adultery was in her honor more insulting than the actual act of adultery.

So why isn't this sceanrio more common in Christian marriages? Because we know better. We know thru example, thru the media, thru the Bible, thru the logic of it, that it is wrong.

So why don't you keep the Sabbath? It is in the media, it is in the Bible, we can see from example, and it's even on your calendar. But Christians failing that one command or even failing to acknowledge the continued validity of that one command IS a common scenario.

Don't spend so much time trying to do what is good and what you may consider Godly. Do what is spiritually essential and what the Lord considers such. And if your really not sure...it just may be the safest route to go the more conservative way. You can't outgive God.

And we all understand that you like to do work on the Sabbath. But how or whether you sould obey God's commands isn't about what "you like". You may find that God doesn't accept your substitute Sabbath anymore than your wife will accept a "substitute wife".

Just some thoughts...

KalEl76 said:

Well, I guess my soul is damned for a couple of reasons:

1) I like to go do things with my family on Saturday. I cut the grass, clean the yard, wash the care and other stuff.

2) I attend church on Sunday and rest that day.

Hell, all this time I thought I was following the will of God when in fact I was succumbing to Satan's desire to have me help with the youth ministry, bring my wife to the Lord and basically volunteer as a prison pen pal. Silly me, I'm a Satanist

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God doesn't judge you for things that you did in ignorance, but when you fully comprehend what is God's will, and then you willfully do what you want anyways, then that is sin. And if someone continues in sin, they will be lost.

KalEl76 said:

Well, I guess my soul is damned for a couple of reasons:

1) I like to go do things with my family on Saturday. I cut the grass, clean the yard, wash the care and other stuff.

2) I attend church on Sunday and rest that day.

Hell, all this time I thought I was following the will of God when in fact I was succumbing to Satan's desire to have me help with the youth ministry, bring my wife to the Lord and basically volunteer as a prison pen pal. Silly me, I'm a Satanist

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KalEl76, remember what I told you in post #6 and post #41?

From me to you friend, if they want to bash me I'll ignore them.

Take heart friend, God said Remember the Sabbath, to keep it Holy. (Ex. 20:8) God did not, i repeat, God did not say remember Saturday, to keep it holy. If we are sinning by worshipping on Sunday, then my friend, I'll be in hell with you. We (Protestants) worship on Sunday, because it is the day Christ arose from the grave. That is our sabbath friend. God also said that we had six days to labor but on the seventh day we were to rest and keep it holy because God ended the creation after six days and rested on the seventh. God never gave any specific names to the days that the creation took place. Notice that the Bible also agrees with this in that scriptures say:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." -Gen. 1:1-5

After God created the heavens and earth He also created the day and the night. Notice closely that on whatever day that took place, no name was given for that day, rather at the end of all that God created on that day, it was the first day. The very first day ever recorded. It did not say: "And the evening and the morning were Sunday." So take heart friend, as long as we set one day apart to be our sabbath, no matter what day it happens to be, God is satisfied. Why can't the sabbath be on Monday? or Wednesday? Paul teaches us that we need not be part of the pack. Because some want us to worship on Saturday instead of Sunday, they say we are sinning. Well friend, I chose not to follow the crowd. Paul says that we are:

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord," -2 Cor. 6:17

The Pharasees and Saducees were strick adherents to the law. If you violated the law, God help you. Some people today, say we still need to follow the law. Friend, I don't know where they get their logic from. Paul also tells us that once we come to saving faith in Jesus Christ, we "are not under the law." (Col. 5:18) As a born again Christian who believes in the risen Savior, I am free from the law! Paul taught the Galatians that the law was put in place to bring us to Christ. (Gal. 3:24) but after we come to faith in Christ, we are no longer bound to that old schoolmaster called the law. (Gal. 3:25) Paul also warned us that if we submit ourselves back to observing the law, such as circumcision for example, the we have rendered "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law;" (Gal 5:4) And if we submit ourselves to observing the law, then "he is a debtor to do the whole law." (Gal. 5:3) And I refuse to be placed back under the "law."

I know I said I was going to reframe from this thread, but you seemed to be getting beaten down and fustrated, so I wanted you to know that if you are going to be in hell for worshipping on Sunday, you'll not be alone friend, I'll be there with you. Along with about a billion others of the Protestant faith. Shoot friend, if you follow others beliefs, because we worship on Sunday, the only ones in heaven be those who are not Protestant. Go figure.

I'm outta here.
God bless and keep the faith friend.

DeaconDean said:

KalEl76, remember what I told you in post #6 and post #41?

From me to you friend, if they want to bash me I'll ignore them.

Take heart friend, God said Remember the Sabbath, to keep it Holy. (Ex. 20:8) God did not, i repeat, God did not say remember Saturday, to keep it holy. If we are sinning by worshipping on Sunday, then my friend, I'll be in hell with you. We (Protestants) worship on Sunday, because it is the day Christ arose from the grave. That is our sabbath friend. God also said that we had six days to labor but on the seventh day we were to rest and keep it holy because God ended the creation after six days and rested on the seventh. God never gave any specific names to the days that the creation took place. Notice that the Bible also agrees with this in that scriptures say:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." -Gen. 1:1-5

After God created the heavens and earth He also created the day and the night. Notice closely that on whatever day that took place, no name was given for that day, rather at the end of all that God created on that day, it was the first day. The very first day ever recorded. It did not say: "And the evening and the morning were Sunday." So take heart friend, as long as we set one day apart to be our sabbath, no matter what day it happens to be, God is satisfied. Why can't the sabbath be on Monday? or Wednesday? Paul teaches us that we need not be part of the pack. Because some want us to worship on Saturday instead of Sunday, they say we are sinning. Well friend, I chose not to follow the crowd. Paul says that we are:

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a. Paul did not say you don't have to be a part of the pack. He said let no one judge you in part of this or that festival. But rather than address the points made on the exegesis of the two or three passages involved, or to even look at the other passages which show the early church keeping the Sabbath, you have taken Paul to mean what you think he means. You are welcome to do that, but this type of pep talk is not really answering the original post. It is sermonizing and in fact judging us for our stand without really addressing any of our arguments for that stand.

b. You have followed the pack. The pack clearly is not keeping Monday or Wednesday, etc. They are keeping Sunday. If you look at the early church they clearly knew what day was Sabbath and what day was Sunday because from at least 100 AD they kept both for three hundred years. The question was never the timing, it was whether it is right to keep the day. To say that God intended that it be any one day out of seven is to miss the whole testimony of history both biblical and otherwise.

If the Sabbath was done away with then there is no reason to keep ANY day as a Sabbath, Sunday included. So if you are going to be consistent then Sunday is not your Sabbath. It is just the day that you worship because of the resurrection. It was at the council of Laodicea, and in a couple of the early church fathers that the distinction became to be blurred, with Sunday being associated with rest in place of the Sabbath. But the two days clearly have different origins, different meanings, and Sunday is NOT a Sabbath.

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord," -2 Cor. 6:17

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An interesting text to quote. It was an appeal for the Corinthians to re-affirm their love for Paul and separate from those who were leading them astray (including into sin).

So are you then affirming that we are false teachers? If so then it is up to you to demonstrate that.

The Pharasees and Saducees were strick adherents to the law. If you violated the law, God help you. Some people today, say we still need to follow the law. Friend, I don't know where they get their logic from. Paul also tells us that once we come to saving faith in Jesus Christ, we "are not under the law." (Col. 5:18) As a born again Christian who believes in the risen Savior, I am free from the law! Paul taught the Galatians that the law was put in place to bring us to Christ. (Gal. 3:24) but after we come to faith in Christ, we are no longer bound to that old schoolmaster called the law. (Gal. 3:25) Paul also warned us that if we submit ourselves back to observing the law, such as circumcision for example, the we have rendered "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law;" (Gal 5:4) And if we submit ourselves to observing the law, then "he is a debtor to do the whole law." (Gal. 5:3) And I refuse to be placed back under the "law."

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And he also said that the law is FULLY met in us who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The law is written on the heart in the new covenant, not done away with. Paul's whole point is that Christ is now the guiding force in his life, not the law. And Christ is able to do far more in us than an external law, which was always to be in the heart in the first place. Paul does not do away with God's moral precepts by keeping them from the heart, and not living according to the letter. And if you doubt that just read all the imperatives that Paul gives to the gentile churches. They are certainly not free from the law in the sense of not having to worry about their behavior at all. Instead he is asking them to truly serve God from the heart.

Now, aspects of the ceremonial law were done away with for gentiles. But the question is whether the Sabbath is a ceremonial law, and whether it was done away with.

I know I said I was going to reframe from this thread, but you seemed to be getting beaten down and fustrated, so I wanted you to know that if you are going to be in hell for worshipping on Sunday, you'll not be alone friend, I'll be there with you. Along with about a billion others of the Protestant faith. Shoot friend, if you follow others beliefs, because we worship on Sunday, the only ones in heaven be those who are not Protestant. Go figure.

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An emotional argument based on the crowd, not any biblical evidence.

This forum is for inter-denominational discussion of a theological nature. You are required to back up the things you say in regards to other faiths. So if you wish to call us legalists, or say that we are needlessly consigning people to hell, then you need to address our acutal arguments, not just go on about how the majority do not agree with us, therefore no one need worry about the actual discussion.

I guess it's not too relevant for me to have opinions on the sabbath, as I truly see sabbathkeeping as part of another religion than mine (I don't believe christianity should be based on the jewish covenant at all, but only Jesus). But of course, it does seem hypocritical when christians are talking about keeping the ten commandments and willfully neglecting one of them.

Anyway, what is the reason people should keep the sabbath? As far as I can tell, it's not about our health (though rest is good, obviously), but more like a moral obligation. The question, then, is what does God get out of it? In short, how does God benefit from your observing the sabbath, and how would he not get that benefit if you kept it on a thursday or a monday?

says that Saturday is the Sabbath. I trust their expertise in such matters.
Why not ask those who say they know?

holo said:

I guess it's not too relevant for me to have opinions on the sabbath, as I truly see sabbathkeeping as part of another religion than mine (I don't believe christianity should be based on the jewish covenant at all, but only Jesus). But of course, it does seem hypocritical when christians are talking about keeping the ten commandments and willfully neglecting one of them.

Anyway, what is the reason people should keep the sabbath? As far as I can tell, it's not about our health (though rest is good, obviously), but more like a moral obligation. The question, then, is what does God get out of it? In short, how does God benefit from your observing the sabbath, and how would he not get that benefit if you kept it on a thursday or a monday?

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while I disagree with your position, and think it is based on a misreading of Paul's theology regarding the law, I will still say that you are consistent in this regard. If the law has no role, then the 10 commandments are a non-issue. But few Christians will say that.

Moreover, there is no need for any Sabbath, on any day if God got rid of it.

But as to your question, Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. God gets out of it a day that we can rest from our usual work in order to spend time with Him.

As to why one day is different than another, there are really two answers there.

1. The observance of Sabbath is usually different than that of Sunday. Many think of Sunday as a day to go to church, not as a whole day to be spent with God. The Sabbath reminds us that it is a whole day to take joy in Him: It seems strange to think that God would need to COMMAND a day off. But most will not take it if He didn't command it. And if kept as intended (not legalistically, but as He kept it), then it is a blessing.

2. I think God is capable of blessing someone if they sincerely keep another day, whether it be Sunday or Thursday etc. But when one knows God's will there is a blessing in doing it. Keeping the day He picked is showing that we respect His decisions, even if we don't understand them all.

At the point when the Sabbath becomes something to boast over, it has lost its usefulness. THe Sabbath is no a badge to be worn, but a day for loving God. As with any of the other commandments if you keep it merely to be saved or out of obligation is is pointless.

To illustrate the point, I remember hearing of an Adventist leader who recounted his earliest attempt to share his faith. Rather than share Jesus he did study after study with him on the subject of the Sabbath. Finally the young man he was studying with said, "I can't stand to spend 10 minutes with God, and you want me to spend a whole day with Him. How much sense does that make?" He then realized he had everything backwards. The Sabbath is not an obligation to enforce, it is a privelege to keep with God. But only if you want to be with God.

holo said:

I guess it's not too relevant for me to have opinions on the sabbath, as I truly see sabbathkeeping as part of another religion than mine (I don't believe christianity should be based on the jewish covenant at all, but only Jesus). But of course, it does seem hypocritical when christians are talking about keeping the ten commandments and willfully neglecting one of them.

Anyway, what is the reason people should keep the sabbath? As far as I can tell, it's not about our health (though rest is good, obviously), but more like a moral obligation. The question, then, is what does God get out of it? In short, how does God benefit from your observing the sabbath, and how would he not get that benefit if you kept it on a thursday or a monday?

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1. Do you see yourself as part of Israel? [Not the country]

2. Are you the seed of Abraham?

3. Exactly which covenant are you under?

JimfromOhio said:

Don't worry, I believe that God gave us the 7th cycle that His Grace have provided by Jesus Christ when He died on the Cross and rose from the dead on the first day of the week.

I worship daily. I go to Church 1 to 2 times a week and I rest on the 7th day of my working cycle.

But if legalism teaches that Law is more powerful than Grace, then we will be punished by ???. I don't doubt God will punish since Christ died for all of our sins (past, present and future).

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Grace cannot happen until the law is broken. Grace gives you another chance at being a good boy. That is why there is grace.

Does grace do away with God's law? It's in the bible, Romans 3:31
Do we then nullify the law by this grace? Not at all, rather, we uphold it.
The law cannot save us, that is not its job. The only thing it does is point out sin, for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then, is the law sin? God forbid! Nay, I had not know sin but by the law. I had not known lust, but the law said thou shalt not covet.

Vs 13: Therefore, the law indeed is holy, and the commandment is holy, and righteous and good.

Vs 22: For I delight in God's law after the inward man.

1 John 3:4 Sin is the transgression of the law.
It is the only definition given in scripture as to what sin is.

OrthodoxyUSA said:

The Gentiles were not expected to keep the OT laws..... ACTS 15:19-28.

Forgive me....

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Paul is speaking about what is often termed the Law of Moses. That would be the sacrificial, ceremonial, law of ordinances (codified law). Not the Ten Commandments (moral law).
The law of Moses ceased when type met anti-type. Christ is anti-type, no animal sacrifices will ever be needed again. That is what Paul outlined in Acts 15.

Good reading, not too long.
http://www.gfi.org/

tall73 said:

As to why one day is different than another, there are really two answers there.

1. The observance of Sabbath is usually different than that of Sunday. Many think of Sunday as a day to go to church, not as a whole day to be spent with God. The Sabbath reminds us that it is a whole day to take joy in Him: It seems strange to think that God would need to COMMAND a day off. But most will not take it if He didn't command it. And if kept as intended (not legalistically, but as He kept it), then it is a blessing.

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With this in mind... since sunday keepers and sabbath keepers "keep" their days differently, there doesn't have to be any competition. One could keep both sabbath and sunday.

tall73 said:

2. I think God is capable of blessing someone if they sincerely keep another day, whether it be Sunday or Thursday etc. But when one knows God's will there is a blessing in doing it. Keeping the day He picked is showing that we respect His decisions, even if we don't understand them all.

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And this is basically why I cannot accept the whole sabbath thing, I don't see how/why God would demand I do something completely unrelated to my common sense, love for others, etc. I won't do something just because "the bible says so" either, because the bible says a lot of things, doesn't it?
(I mean, the bible can be used to defend most anything).

Adalbert, where and how does the bible divide the law into four separate parts? Which part did Jesus talk about when He said not one iota of it should pass? How do you know what law Paul was talking about?

ThreeAM said:

1. Do you see yourself as part of Israel? [Not the country]

2. Are you the seed of Abraham?

3. Exactly which covenant are you under?

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1. No, but then I don't know how you define "Israel". I know that in some theologies, "Israel" is every christian.

2. I'm not quite sure what "seed" means, but I'm Abraham's heir, yes.

3. The new one, which is based on Jesus alone.

holo said:

Adalbert, where and how does the bible divide the law into four separate parts? Which part did Jesus talk about when He said not one iota of it should pass? How do you know what law Paul was talking about?


1. No, but then I don't know how you define "Israel". I know that in some theologies, "Israel" is every christian.

2. I'm not quite sure what "seed" means, but I'm Abraham's heir, yes.

3. The new one, which is based on Jesus alone.

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Pardon me? Four separate laws?
Moral law = Ten Commandments
They will always be effective, because they point out our sins.

Codified law = Ceremonial, sacrificial, law of ordinances
Is repealed, since Christ, the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world, kept his promise and became the ultimat sacrifice.

Since the codified law ceased at calvary, and the moral law points out our sins, Jesus was talking about the moral law or ten commandments.

Romans 4:15.............where no law is, there is no sin.

Romans 5:13........sin is not accounted where there is no law.
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A policeman cannot charge you with a crime when there is no law that says your behavior is criminal.

Do you understand this? I hope so.

Don't know if it has already been posted, but Saturdays from sun-up to sun-down. Thank you very much good night!

holo said:

With this in mind... since sunday keepers and sabbath keepers "keep" their days differently, there doesn't have to be any competition. One could keep both sabbath and sunday.

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They most certainly could, yes. And some who keep the Sabbath do keep both. The point is simply that one is a command, and should be kept. If you want to keep more days, it is not wrong. The issue is when Sunday is made its own type of Sabbath, which history does not record happening until much later.

And this is basically why I cannot accept the whole sabbath thing, I don't see how/why God would demand I do something completely unrelated to my common sense, love for others, etc. I won't do something just because "the bible says so" either, because the bible says a lot of things, doesn't it?
(I mean, the bible can be used to defend most anything).

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If you only accept that which is inline with loving others etc. ,then realize that the Sabbath has that element as well. In the OT The animals, the slaves, everyone were free on the Sabbath. It was a day of no class divisions, a day of freedom for all to worship God. Today when kept as a day of rest everyone is likewise free on that day.

Adalbert said:

Pardon me? Four separate laws?
Moral law = Ten Commandments
They will always be effective, because they point out our sins.

Codified law = Ceremonial, sacrificial, law of ordinances
Is repealed, since Christ, the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world, kept his promise and became the ultimat sacrifice.

Since the codified law ceased at calvary, and the moral law points out our sins, Jesus was talking about the moral law or ten commandments.

Romans 4:15.............where no law is, there is no sin.

Romans 5:13........sin is not accounted where there is no law.
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A policeman cannot charge you with a crime when there is no law that says your behavior is criminal.

Do you understand this? I hope so.

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I think I understand. But if by "law" you mean the ten commandments, surely it's not correct to say there's no sin without a law. People did sin before the time of Moses, as I'm sure you'll agree.

However the law may (or may not) be divided, the part of it which was written on stone -the ten commandments- is called "the ministry that brought death".

Therefore the only logical conclusion seems to me to be that
a) the law which condemned me is obviously the ten commandments,
b) it has not passed away. But I am dead with Christ and it therefore has no claim on me
c) and anyway I don't reckon it was ever given to the Gentiles, so I'd have to be held to another kind of law to begin with (that knowledge of right and wrong we all have in our hearts, I guess),
d) and the new covenant has nothing to do with the law, the way I see things.

I know a lot of this conflicts with common christian thinking, which is one of my reasons for not calling myself a christian though I believe in Christ in much the same way as your average christian believer.