• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

What creationists need to do to win against evolution.

Al Touthentop

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2019
2,940
888
62
VENETA
Visit site
✟42,426.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Politics
US-Libertarian
Okay here is a simpler article:

Read your own source.

If one steps back and looks at the entropy of this local system and the entropy from the heat pump we would still see a total increase in entropy.
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
If one steps back and looks at the entropy of this local system and the entropy from the heat pump we would still see a total increase in entropy.

Right, total entropy increases. Nobody is arguing otherwise.

However, if local entropy can decrease (which is again what you quoted from Wikipedia) then how is it that evolution of biological organisms is prohibited by thermodynamics?
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Read your own source.

If one steps back and looks at the entropy of this local system and the entropy from the heat pump we would still see a total increase in entropy.
How many times have I said that the total entropy increases? I always pointed out that local lowering of entropy is possible. You are reading what you want to read rather than what people post.
 
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

Al Touthentop

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2019
2,940
888
62
VENETA
Visit site
✟42,426.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Politics
US-Libertarian
Right, total entropy increases. Nobody is arguing otherwise.

However, if local entropy can decrease (which is again what you quoted from Wikipedia) then how is it that evolution of biological organisms is prohibited by thermodynamics?

Tell you what smart guy, why don't you show me an air conditioner that spontaneously created itself out of the raw materials its made of. Then we can talk further about your complete misunderstanding of the law of entropy.
 
Upvote 0

MIDutch

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2020
2,421
3,383
68
Detroit
✟83,174.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Tell you what smart guy, why don't you show me an air conditioner that spontaneously created itself out of the raw materials its made of. Then we can talk further about your complete misunderstanding of the law of entropy.
Wow. Just ... wow.
 
Upvote 0

Paul James

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2020
408
116
77
Christchurch
✟3,275.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
It is interesting that you quote Augustine here, but you don't believe what he says about the need to believe the gospel of Christ. It is inconsistency to take one part of what he says to prove a point and reject the rest.
 
Reactions: Al Touthentop
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

On August Recess
Mar 11, 2017
21,851
16,476
55
USA
✟414,427.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Tell you what smart guy, why don't you show me an air conditioner that spontaneously created itself out of the raw materials its made of. Then we can talk further about your complete misunderstanding of the law of entropy.

When pointing a gun at someone, you shouldn't really be able to see down the barrel.
 
Reactions: pitabread
Upvote 0

Al Touthentop

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2019
2,940
888
62
VENETA
Visit site
✟42,426.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Politics
US-Libertarian
How many times have I said that the total entropy increases?

You quoted what you don't understand. You still don't understand it. Entropy is not reduced by photosynthesis. The plant is still on its way to death and decay. The branches break off, the leaves fall off, the petals fall off and the DNA eventually degrades such that repair is no longer possible. That's entropy. They can grow new leaves and those leaves can collect C02 but the energy used to repair itself is "lost" energy through the process. Just as in an automobile engine.

And none of this so called "reduction of entropy" at all suggests that raw materials can spontaneously organize themselves into living machines.
 
Upvote 0

MIDutch

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2020
2,421
3,383
68
Detroit
✟83,174.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
It is interesting that you quote Augustine here, but you don't believe what he says about the need to believe the gospel of Christ. It is inconsistency to take one part of what he says to prove a point and reject the rest.
Why?

I can still think a person can do (say) one thing right and still think everything else they do (say) is wrong.

My wife tells me this all the time (the right thing was, of course, marrying her).

The two are NOT mutually exclusive.
 
Reactions: Paul James
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Tell you what smart guy, why don't you show me an air conditioner that spontaneously created itself out of the raw materials its made of. Then we can talk further about your complete misunderstanding of the law of entropy.

Or you could actually try to answer the question instead of continuing to avoid it.

(But we both know why you can't answer it.)
 
Upvote 0

HitchSlap

PROUDLY PRIMATE
Aug 6, 2012
14,723
5,468
✟288,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
It is inconsistency to take one part of what he says to prove a point and reject the rest.
Critical thinkers do this all the time. It's absurd to suggest that because one makes a true proposition, ergo all propositions are true. I'm bettin' you're a Trump man.
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private

So how do plants grow in the first place?

Based on what you're trying to argue, it seems like reproduction should be impossible.
 
Upvote 0

Al Touthentop

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2019
2,940
888
62
VENETA
Visit site
✟42,426.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Politics
US-Libertarian
Or you could actually try to answer the question instead of continuing to avoid it.

(But we both know why you can't answer it.)

The question is not even relevant to the point that was first made. The systems you're saying have reduced entropy, are headed to death and decay and the law of entropy is a description of that. To say otherwise is to ignore the fact that all living machines and man made machines rush toward maximum entropy from the moment they're born.

To even get mired in the discussion about what sort of energy is used and stored while that mechanism works is pointless because once the thing does die, a new one does not generate itself from the raw materials that were used in its creation. And the thing itself did not jump out of the ground because the law of entropy forbids it.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
It is interesting that you quote Augustine here, but you don't believe what he says about the need to believe the gospel of Christ. It is inconsistency to take one part of what he says to prove a point and reject the rest.
It really isn't. You misunderstood the point of quoting him. Believing in Jesus is not a requirement to understand his quote or to agree with it.
 
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0