What Convinced you God Exists?

[Clizby WampusCat]

Takes all sorts...

"Unbelief in God doesn’t necessarily entail unbelief in other supernatural phenomena,' write the report's authors.

'Atheists and (less so) agnostics exhibit lower levels of supernatural belief than do the wider populations. However, only minorities of atheists or agnostics in each of our countries appear to be thoroughgoing naturalists.' " Most atheists and agnostics BELIEVE in the supernatural and ‘underlying forces of good and evil' | Daily Mail Online

If in doubt, ask.

Thanks for the article. I have come across many theists that think atheism somehow is a worldview and implies a set of beliefs. It is and does not.

 

[Tolworth John]

No it doesn’t. Learn more science and maths.

I may be a dunce at maths, but I know enough about basic arithmetic to know that 1 X 0 = 0
2 X 0 = 0 and so on and so on.

Every scientific idea about nothing causing something presupposes that laws, which are something, exist or that ' nothing ' is really a special state in which something does exist.

 

[Larniavc]

Every scientific idea about nothing causing something presupposes that laws

Please support this claim with evidence. Be specific.

 

[Tolworth John]

Please support this claim with evidence. Be specific.

And will you provide scientific evidence of nothing causing something?

 

[Larniavc]

And will you provide scientific evidence of nothing causing something?

Zero point energy and the Casimir Effect.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0106045.pdf

Your turn.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Zero point energy and the Casimir Effect.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0106045.pdf

Your turn.

It depends on how you define nothing. A vacuum with fluctuating fields is not nothing.

 

[Paulomycin]

this may be one of your problems. Listen to what a particular atheists believes instead of assuming what they believe. We all believe different things just like theists.

Which naturally makes the concept of atheism that much more ridiculously vague.

belief in the supernatural does not make you mentally ill whether it is ghosts or gods.

Atheists have been making psychiatric diagnoses online for decades now. I don't imagine they're going to stop anytime soon.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Which naturally makes the concept of atheism that much more ridiculously vague.

Atheism means nothing more than a disbelief or lack of belief in gods. There is nothing more to it so no it is not vague. You want to attribute other things to atheism that are not there.

Atheists have been making psychiatric diagnoses online for decades now. I don't imagine they're going to stop anytime soon.

You are doing it again. You are talking to me not a vague stereotype of an atheist that is in your head. Your strawmen are all you have.

 

[Paulomycin]

Atheism means nothing more than a disbelief or lack of belief in gods.

Which is sketchy on its face. One can literally translate the words to, "disbelief, or the state of being without, or not having enough of belief in gods." Does that look honest to you? Seriously? Atheists generally don't know or don't care how intellectually dishonest they can come across.

Let's say you're buying a used car from me and you ask me if the odometer's been messed with. My reply to you is, "I either don't believe so, or I lack belief that it's been rolled back at all."

So yeah, it's painfully vague.

You are doing it again. You are talking to me not a vague stereotype of an atheist that is in your head. Your strawmen are all you have.

No one said you necessarily have to be an atheist. If you really want to think for yourself, then you're encouraged to do so! You don't need these losers.

 

[Paulomycin]

Atheism means nothing more than a disbelief or lack of belief in gods. There is nothing more to it so no it is not vague. You want to attribute other things to atheism that are not there.

If you don't want to be treated as a stereotype, then please stop parroting the stereotypical talking ponits, such as "disbelief or lacking belief." It's like saying, "Mmmmaybe. . .or maybe not," 24/7. It's dodgy and deceptive on its face.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

If you don't want to be treated as a stereotype, then please stop parroting the stereotypical talking ponits, such as "disbelief or lacking belief." It's like saying, "Mmmmaybe. . .or maybe not," 24/7. It's dodgy and deceptive on its face.

This has been explained to you before. It is not as hard as you think it is.

The I don't know position is very honest because I don't know if a god exists. You don't seem to be able to handle this position.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Which is sketchy on its face. One can literally translate the words to, "disbelief, or the state of being without, or not having enough of belief in gods." Does that look honest to you? Seriously? Atheists generally don't know or don't care how intellectually dishonest they can come across.

You just will not or cannot understand I don't know which. It is really basic epistemology.

I believe a god exists
I believe a god does not exist
I don't believe a god exists (This is not saying a god does not exist). It is like saying I don't believe there are an odd number of marbles in a bucket, that is not then saying there are an even number.

These are three different positions. These have already been explained to you. All I can say is go back and study how I explained it before. Or study an epistemology book. I don't know what else to say.

Let's say you're buying a used car from me and you ask me if the odometer's been messed with. My reply to you is, "I either don't believe so, or I lack belief that it's been rolled back at all."

So yeah, it's painfully vague.

No, it may be the honest answer.

No one said you necessarily have to be an atheist. If you really want to think for yourself, then you're encouraged to do so! You don't need these losers.

More goading.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

If you don't want to be treated as a stereotype, then please stop parroting the stereotypical talking ponits, such as "disbelief or lacking belief." It's like saying, "Mmmmaybe. . .or maybe not," 24/7. It's dodgy and deceptive on its face.

I have explained why this position is the honest position. This is just more goading by you.

 

[Paulomycin]

You just will not or cannot understand I don't know which. It is really basic epistemology.

Which epistemology? They have names, you know.

I believe a god exists
I believe a god does not exist
I don't believe a god exists (This is not saying a god does not exist). It is like saying I don't believe there are an odd number of marbles in a bucket, that is not then saying there are an even number.

Why do you insist on gaslighting me? "I don't believe a god exists," is the same thing as stating the negative belief, "God does not exist." The only difference is one is stated in a positive sense, while the other is in the negative sense. It's like you're claiming they're two different statements just because the words are rearranged, but I know you're smarter than that. Come on.

No, it may be the honest answer.

Remind me to never buy a used car from you.

More goading.

Me telling you that you're capable of thinking for yourself is goading ? ? ? Seriously?

 

[Paulomycin]

I have explained why this position is the honest position. This is just more goading by you.

That's really my position, and I'll make that statement to any anyone. It doesn't matter who I'm saying it to. So it's hardly "goading." Just because you might feel emotionally provoked by my speech doesn't necessarily mean I'm goading you, and I'll fight any admin that says otherwise.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Why do you insist on gaslighting me? "I don't believe a god exists," is the same thing as stating the negative belief, "God does not exist." The only difference is one is stated in a positive sense, while the other is in the negative sense. It's like you're claiming they're two different statements just because the words are rearranged, but I know you're smarter than that. Come on.

Do you believe I am 5 foot 11 inches tall?

Me

telling you that you're capable of thinking for yourself is goading ? ? ? Seriously?

No calling others losers is.

 

[Paulomycin]

Why do you get to take the I don't know position on my height but I cannot take the I don't know position on the existence of god?

Because I am not straight-up refusing to see the evidence of your height, and I am perfectly willing to accept that evidence when I see it, too! I don't have a flat-earther's level of incredulity.

Atheism is not an ideology. It is a position on one claim. Anyway, more goading by you.

I'm asking you nicely to please stop throwing that accusation around so carelessly. Atheists generally adhere to a set of ideals, beliefs, ideas, and philosophies, all with specific names, that support their "position on one claim." Sure, they generally claim this isn't the case, but it can be demonstrated otherwise.

Otherwise, atheism is an empty faith claim (as in so-called "fideistic atheism") supported by nothing, which would not only make atheism even more ridiculous than it is, but also a form of gross hypocrisy, because they'd be doing the very same thing that they accuse fideistic believers of.

 

[Lion IRC]

Otherwise, atheism is an empty faith claim (as in so-called "fideistic atheism") supported by nothing...

Atheism does has the flavor of wishful thinking fedeism.
Gimme anything but God...

"Multiverse" of the gaps.
"Dark energy" of the gaps.
"Mutation" of the gaps.
"Coincidence" of the gaps.
"Convergence" of the gaps.
"Spontaneity" of the gaps.
"Singularity" of the gaps.
"Quantum spookiness" of the gaps.
"Random chance" of the gaps.
"Abiogenesis" of the gaps.
"God" of the gaps. <<< Oops. Sorry. That one's already taken.

 

[Bradskii]

Atheism does has the flavor of wishful thinking fedeism.
Gimme anything but God...

"Multiverse" of the gaps.
"Dark energy" of the gaps.
"Mutation" of the gaps.
"Coincidence" of the gaps.
"Convergence" of the gaps.
"Spontaneity" of the gaps.
"Singularity" of the gaps.
"Quantum spookiness" of the gaps.
"Random chance" of the gaps.
"Abiogenesis" of the gaps.
"God" of the gaps. <<< Oops. Sorry. That one's already taken.

You'd have a point if even one of those items denied the existence of God. But they don't. So you don't.

And if you know of any atheists that have used one of them, is using one of them, or is likely to use one of them to deny God's existence, then tell him or her from me that he or she is an idiot.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Because I am not straight-up refusing to see the evidence of your height, and I am perfectly willing to accept that evidence when I see it, too! I don't have a flat-earther's level of incredulity.

Neither do I. Show me good evidence and I will believe God exists.

I'm asking you nicely to please stop throwing that accusation around so carelessly.

When you stop goading I will. Telling others that they have a loser ideology and that other atheists are losers is goading. Just stick to the arguments.

Atheists generally adhere to a set of ideals, beliefs, ideas, and philosophies, all with specific names, that support their "position on one claim." Sure, they generally claim this isn't the case, but it can be demonstrated otherwise.

Not true. As I have pointed out atheists can believe anything they want about any other claim, we just all have a lack of or disbelief of gods. Atheists morality can come from different places, politics, positions of anything really and has nothing to do with their atheism only that we won't attribute anything to a god until there is good reason to do so. It is the same for theists. Theists believe many divergent things about god as well. It is best to not assume or stereotype others.

Otherwise, atheism is an empty faith claim (as in so-called "fideistic atheism") supported by nothing, which would not only make atheism even more ridiculous than it is, but also a form of gross hypocrisy, because they'd be doing the very same thing that they accuse fideistic believers of.

I agree with this for atheists that deny gods exists. For me and many others who don't believe a god exists or are not sure either way there is no faith involved. Do you have faith that I am not 5 foot 11 inches tall? No, you just don't have any evidence to know either way.