What church do you go to?

[Marissa]

Um...catholics don't worship Mary Butterscotch.

Can I suggest you go post a thread in OBOB and ask them to explain it? I started one a while back with a few questions/misunderstandings I had and they were more than happy to explain exactly what they do and believe. You likely won't agree with them, but knowing the truth about other denominations is always a good thing anyhow.

 

[Bevlina]

What has this thread got to do with the way the topic is going? This thread is about which church we go to isn't it?

 

[Crusader]

I don’t go to church at the moment, for much the same reasons as you Bevlina. I have walked with the lord long enough to know I can do that without needing other people to fill me or feed me, I am old enough to do that myself. The young do not have our luxury or experience.

I was born again into the united Pentecostal church (the same movement as butterscotch), and from there went to the COC but I haven’t really been to church now for a couple of years, except to take my children to the 7th day Adventist church up the street occasionally.

I like the 7th dayers because they are into family and health and have good bible theology. I couldn’t handle all that AOG, Pentecostal stuff and I especially would never ever go near a united Pentecostal or Jesus only church again.

I am happy following my lord without going to church , it has worked for me.

Bevlina, the children wouldn’t understand that but we do. I am not your age but I am old enough to now I need to listen to you and respect that your age gives you precedence in wisdom than I or these children can even imagine. I.e., I bet they haven‘t even had children , let alone real sex .

I know that if you met Jesus in his time that he would have respected you simply because you were his elder.

When I was 18 I disagreed with everything my father said but at 37 yrs old, I will ask his advise and listen to everything he says, because if I have learned anything in my life, it is that I was young , foolish and arrogant and yet I thought I was so smart and so wise.

I’m now a father of 4 children, the oldest of which is 18.

Isn’t it funny how only age can teach you a lot of things and the young could not possibly understand.

An 18 year old can see that what a 2 year old is doing is foolish the same as a 50 yr old sees that an 18 yr old is foolish. Only age brings certain wisdom and no knowledge or book can teach what age teaches.

Butterscotch, that was me I was referring to, (please don‘t take me personally, this is to do with my own children as well), although I would say to you that age counts a lot hear and if I could advise you on anything it would be to take your age of your info

 

[Bevlina]

Thanks Crusader...lovely post. I haven't been to a 7th Dayer church but I know they are good people. It's true that we do acquire wisdom as we grow older. And, I know that wisdom is worth more than all the wealth in the world. I've been to churches, and they have done nothing for me. The preacher's have done nothing for me. And, I won't go again. Doesn't the Bible state that the Holy Spirit is our teacher? Yet, preachers all seem hell bent on teaching us. I'd prefer to just sit back and let the Holy Spirit go about the Father's Business with me. But, there are not many christians who will do that. Going to church is not in the commandments.
No matter where we are, we can worship in silence. I do not need hyped music to put me into Praise mode. There is such a thing as CREATION to do that. And, our God is a gentle God. Jesus often went away by himself to pray and worship God. And...he always seemed to go to a very quiet place.
I can't handle the pentecostal stuff anymore. I know it has gripped the world but, although I do speak in a prayer language, that is strictly between me and God. And, it does not make me belong to a pentecostal church. It simply makes me a child of God.

 

[Marissa]

Bevlina, the children wouldn?t understand that but we do. I am not your age but I am old enough to now I need to listen to you and respect that your age gives you precedence in wisdom than I or these children can even imagine. I.e., I bet they haven?t even had children , let alone real sex .

....

Isn?t it funny how only age can teach you a lot of things and the young could not possibly understand.

An 18 year old can see that what a 2 year old is doing is foolish the same as a 50 yr old sees that an 18 yr old is foolish. Only age brings certain wisdom and no knowledge or book can teach what age teaches.

I might not have your age, but you know what I do have Crusader? For starters I have God and in him I have access to every piece of knowledge and wisdom I could ever dream of needing. All I have do is ask and if I need it, it will be given. You could have a 1000 years of living on this Earth and the knowledge and wisdom you gain from your experiences would not better that. You have no more right to expect your opinion to be heard than I do or Butterscotch does simply because you're older. God used David to defeat Goliath. He uses the most unexpected people to do his work.

I also have my own experiences. I might be 21, but my life isn't your life. Some of my experiences are unique. My combination of experiences is certainly unique. As does Buttercup. You're just as wrong to knock that as I would be to knock your experiences. Age doesn't teach things. Those experiences do. Some come with age, some with circumstances, some need both. You may be older but you don't have a monopoly.

Sheesh, people wonder why older folk aren't respected. Ever though we'd like some respect in return?

 

[Bevlina]

*sigh*...I expected that from you marissa. In fact, I waited for it. Oh so eager to shoot people down in flames. And you wonder why we older folk just look at the young, then glance the other way.
We don't have a monopoly. But...we have acquired wisdom. And...manners. And it might come as a surprise to you...but...we also have God! And, over the years, we have been learning. First by the Bible, then by experiences.
When you are our ages...then look at the young and see how much more than us they think they know then. But suddenly...I feel very tired. Tired of the way we are spoken to...and the way we are treated....and more than tired of the so called smart replies which tend to insult our intelligence. And...more than tired of church going people. Do you think that by going to church makes one more superior? No...there was only one church Jesus loved...the church of Philadelphia in Revelation.

 

[Bevlina]

and...here you go again marissa huh? Well...I'm going to bed.

 

[Marissa]

*sigh*...I expected that from you marissa. In fact, I waited for it. Oh so eager to shoot people down in flames. And you wonder why Wewe older folk just look at the young, then glance the other way.

Because you stereotype people I assume. I at least give elders respect until they show they don't deserve it.

We don't have a monopoly. But...we have acquired wisdom. And...manners.

I suppose you consider calling an adult a child polite then? Or talking to someone in a condescending tone polite?

And it might come as a surprise to you...but...we also have God! And, over the years, we have been learning. First by the Bible, then by experiences.

Bev, you've only been a christian 7 years. That's your spiritual age. I daresay crusader is older than you in that respect. You might be 58, but that means nothing in your walk with Christ. For that matter, nor does how long you have been a christian necessarily. I've been watching my mother walk around the mountain for years. She's not the only christian doing it.

All that said, you completely missed my point. Telling me someone is so much better, with so much extra knowledge and wisdom simply because they're older is pointless when you consider that my heavenly Fathers wisdom and knowledge is available to me. Your knowledge is nothing in comparison. Consequently, you're no better than me for it.

When you are our ages...then look at the young and see how much more than us they think they know. Suddenly...I feel very tired. Tired of the way we are spoken to...and the way we are treated....and more than tired of the so called smart replies which tend to insult our intelligence.

That's just it Bev. The feeling is mutual. You don't want us talking badly to you, treating you badly or insulting your intelligence. Yet many older folk seem to think they can do that to the young. If you can dish it out, you have to take it back.

And...more than tired of church going people. Do you think that by going to church makes one more superior? No...there was only one church Jesus loved...the church of Philadelphia in Revelation.

Where have I ever said going to church makes one superior Bev? Go back and read the thread. I agreed with you on your position about going to church. What I don't agree with is your position that simply because Butterscotch is young she should be put down and told to be quiet.

If that's your idea of manners, I pray I never learn them.

 

[Marissa]

and...here you go again marissa huh? Well...I'm going to bed.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander Bev. You replied. No reason I shouldn't. Unless one has double standards ofcourse.

*shrug*

 

[Bevlina]

I never told anybody to be quiet marissa. Look...it's obvious that you have hated me ever since you joined this forum. In future...we will stay well out of each other's way. There is a rule against inflaming members marissa. And, I won't be accused of doing something I am innocent of. I merely pointed out to the child that I am 40 years older. And my idea of manners are perfect manners marissa. Know about them? Of you don't want to learn them...that's fine with me. *shrug*

 

[Marissa]

I don't dislike you. This hasn't nothing what so ever to do with my feelings with you. Remember, my post was in response to Crusader. Not you. You choose to bring in between me and you by replying to my post and saying you "expected this from me" and going on a rant about how rude I am. Prior to that we've had no disagreement in this thread. Quite the opposite in fact. Other than the first thread (and I'm not going to apologise again) we haven't disagreed on much at all.

BTW, telling someone that their opinion isn't worth anything because your 40 years older and then following it up by saying "the last thing I want is a child old enough to be my grandchild spruking the Bible at me." is telling someone to be quiet.

 

[KristianJ]

Umm...what's the point of this arguing and bickering?? I'm not at all interested in it, only in recognising the diversity of fellowship that we all experience, whether it be in a large church or in private worship. The only thing that throwing accusations at each other is going to do is kill civility and what we should be as Christian people. That's all.

 

[Crusader]

I suppose you consider calling an adult a child polite then?

Marissa , firstly, I am sorry you took all this so personally????

I have 4 children, 3 of which are teenagers. They are my children and they are still only children to me. Butterscotch is also no older than my oldest child. Don’t take things so personally mate. I was referring to my children and butterscotch and those around there age. If you wanted to take that on for yourself, then I can’t be blamed for that.

I might not have your age, but you know what I do have Crusader? For starters I have God and in him I have access to every piece of knowledge and wisdom I could ever dream of needing. All I have do is ask and if I need it, it will be given. You could have a 1000 years of living on this Earth and the knowledge and wisdom you gain from your experiences would not better that.

I’ve had 37 yrs walking this earth, 15 of which has been side by side with Jesus and I am supposed to be persuaded by this type of argument Marissa??? C’mon mate I can’t wait until you’re my age. Please remember this discussion

You’ll see we are so right, by my age you will see

Have you even had children or a child yet? If I learned anything from the lord, it was that I wasn’t an adult because I could do what I want, I was an adult once I took on responsibility beyond myself?? You no, were you leave that selfish childish life behind and live for others, I wonder if you have even reached that stage yet at 21?

What I don't agree with is your position that simply because Butterscotch is young she should be put down and told to be quiet.

Actually I thought butterscotch approached it as humbly as she could even though I saw why it would be offensive to Bevlina because of “butterscotch’s age” and how she could not have possibly known what Bevlina was or has been through by her age.

I thought she was quite modest about it although I can not say the same for you Marisa, you have an obvious bee in your bonnet, it would be good for you to take special attention of Paul’s writing if you really do want to learn wisdom in how god would have a woman present herself and it is not with arrogance or pride.

I at least give elders respect until they show they don't deserve it

For a start, this is very unbiblical thinking and a bad attitude towards those who are older or have authority over you. Jesus said to even love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you and even spitefully use you.

One hand you claim all the wisdom of god and yet on the other hand your to young to even begin to understand it. Maybe after 1000 yrs you might get the gist of it hey

Please don’t take me to seriously Marissa , I am expecting you to really bite hear, can you show me this wisdom of god your filled with and how god could fill you with his wisdom in a year or so more than he has filled me in 15 yrs???

 

[Marissa]

Marissa , firstly, I am sorry you took all this so personally????

I have 4 children, 3 of which are teenagers. They are my children and they are still only children to me. Butterscotch is also no older than my oldest child. Don?t take things so personally mate. I was referring to my children and butterscotch and those around there age. If you wanted to take that on for yourself, then I can?t be blamed for that.

I didn't take that comment personally. It wasn't directed at me. Something dosen't need to be directed at me for it to be rude. Besides that, that was actually in response to something Bev said and was a comment made by Bevlina earlier in the thread.

I thought she was quite modest about it although I can not say the same for you Marissa, you have an obvious bee in your bonnet, it would be good for you to take special attention of Paul?s writing if you really do want to learn wisdom in how god would have a woman present herself and it is not with arrogance or pride.

*laughs*

I have my issues. Arrogance and pride aren't real high in the "to be dealth with" list. At least according to my pastor (and the Lord).

For a start, this is very unbiblical thinking and a bad attitude towards those who are older or have authority over you. Jesus said to even love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you and even spitefully use you.

Yes, he did, however love and respect aren't the same thing. God has long since taught me the benefits of this teaching. Given my experiences your lecturing me on this is as inappropriate as Butterscotch telling Bevlina that the bible tells us to seek fellowship. Yet, simply because you're older I'm supposed to show respect and Bev isn't? Sorry, but that just doesn't gel with me. It has to be a two way street.

One hand you claim all the wisdom of god and yet on the other hand your to young to even begin to understand it. Maybe after 1000 yrs you might get the gist of it hey

Please don?t take me to seriously Marissa , I am expecting you to really bit hear, can you show me this wisdom of god your filled with and how god could fill you with his wisdom in a year or so more than he has filled me in 15 yrs???

I never said I was filled with Gods wisdom. Please do not put words in my mouth. I said I have access to Gods wisdom and knowledge when I need it and that wisdom is better than anything anyone can gain for themselves. Nor did I deny that you likely had more wisdom than I did. What I have a problem with is this idea is that you have a monopoly on it

 

[cougan]

I don’t go to church at the moment, for much the same reasons as you Bevlina. I have walked with the lord long enough to know I can do that without needing other people to fill me or feed me, I am old enough to do that myself. The young do not have our luxury or experience.

I was born again into the united Pentecostal church (the same movement as butterscotch), and from there went to the COC but I haven’t really been to church now for a couple of years, except to take my children to the 7th day Adventist church up the street occasionally.

I like the 7th dayers because they are into family and health and have good bible theology. I couldn’t handle all that AOG, Pentecostal stuff and I especially would never ever go near a united Pentecostal or Jesus only church again.

I am happy following my lord without going to church , it has worked for me.

Bevlina, the children wouldn’t understand that but we do. I am not your age but I am old enough to now I need to listen to you and respect that your age gives you precedence in wisdom than I or these children can even imagine. I.e., I bet they haven‘t even had children , let alone real sex .

I know that if you met Jesus in his time that he would have respected you simply because you were his elder.

When I was 18 I disagreed with everything my father said but at 37 yrs old, I will ask his advise and listen to everything he says, because if I have learned anything in my life, it is that I was young , foolish and arrogant and yet I thought I was so smart and so wise.

I’m now a father of 4 children, the oldest of which is 18.

Isn’t it funny how only age can teach you a lot of things and the young could not possibly understand.

An 18 year old can see that what a 2 year old is doing is foolish the same as a 50 yr old sees that an 18 yr old is foolish. Only age brings certain wisdom and no knowledge or book can teach what age teaches.

Butterscotch, that was me I was referring to, (please don‘t take me personally, this is to do with my own children as well), although I would say to you that age counts a lot hear and if I could advise you on anything it would be to take your age of your info

Crusader I want to plea with you and I am not trying down you just trying to point out what you are saying to me.

Notice how you have refered to yourself and what is pleasing to you. You are focused on yourself. Just look at the first paragraph.

I don’t go to church at the moment, for much the same reasons as you Bevlina. I have walked with the lord long enough to know I can do that without needing other people to fill me or feed me, I am old enough to do that myself. The young do not have our luxury or experience.

This reminds of the parable of the farmer in Luke 12:16 ff. Crusader Christianity was never a concept of walking alone. I'm glad that you feel so strong that YOU dont need any encouagement from others. Guess what its not all about you. Instead you need to use your assurance to encourage others. The Bible teaches us to love oneanother, edify, encourge, and strengthen one another. By staying at home you are not doing any of these things. In fact I encourage you to read 1Corithans 12 and you will see the church described as a body and how all the parts are to work together. You have cut yourself out of the body and are trying to be an eye or foot by yourself. How can you know who needs to be restored to the body if you are not part of the body of Christ.

Finnally it is a sin to forsake the assembling of the saints.
Hebrews 10:25-27 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

How can you give of your means or partake of the Lords Supper with your fellow brethern if you stay at home?

I hope you will rethink the its all about me concept.

Cougan

 

[Crusader]

Cougan, I have spoken of myself because this is a fellowship forum, not a theology forum and the subject was a personal question so I could only talk about myself couldn’t I. However I have noticed that you have not told us anything about yourself. Were do you go to church, aren’t you American? Why have you followed me hear from our theological discussion into an Australian fellowship forum to judge me? I will take your judgments into account mate however, I do think you misunderstood my post because of the way you replied.

Cougan, you are more than welcome to come to our Aussie fellowship forum mate but please do it without flaming, maybe next post you could tell us a little about were you go to church instead of coming all the way from another thread to have a go at me. I will answer you in our other thread, you didn’t need to follow me hear

 

[Crusader]

*laughs*

I have my issues. Arrogance and pride aren't real high in the "to be dealth with" list. At least according to my pastor (and the Lord).

Marissa, are you telling me there are worse things in your life than your pride? My goodness, you do need the lord then don’t you. J/k

All I see, as someone who has been around churches for 15 yrs and following the lord closely, is that if I was at a church, any one of the churches mentioned in this thread , regardless of the denomination and If during the fellowship time, if I saw an 18 or 21 yr old go up to a 50+ yr old woman elder in the church and start an argument with her over how the young have just as much right and say as she and she arrogantly attacks her elder mothers in the church, then a man like myself, twice there age and 15yrs in the lord would came up to tell the younger to pull there head in and have respect for the elders in the church and then that young person turns there arrogant pride on that male elder in the church, I

would have to assume that younger person is filled with pride and arrogance.

You have just done this exact thing and yet you claim that the lord and your pastor feel you have worse problems than this??

Marissa, please hear me hear. I have pride in my life that the lord would like to deals with, so I know what it looks like, although the difference hear is that my pride is a little more justified since I have authority over a lot of people in my life and I am responsible for a lot of people. I am justified to a degree, considering I am a father and an employer although I am beat at were you got all this pride and foolishness from. I believe you need to seek god concerning humility and how a Christian woman should present herself but hey, if your pastor and Jesus don’t see a problem then I suppose they would know you better. I have only taken my judgments from watching the way you work hear on a christian fellowship forum and I also believe what You would do hear on the forum you would do at church and that troubles me. If your Pastor could hear how unbiblical your Ideas are on your elders, if he read this thread, I believe he would be concerned for you Merissa.

 

[Bevlina]

Well...after reading some of the posts in this thread...I will never enter a church again.
I wouldn't be brave enough! Oh, and I didn't realise we had to go to a church to be a christian, so I changed my religion icon to non denominational.

 

[Crusader]

Bevlina, sorry I stuck my nose in mate, I did not mean for you to come to this conclusion. I am just tiered of seeing how ignorant the young are of there own naivety. I shouldn’t have allowed my beef with the young to affect you. That’ my pride I suppose.

For me Church is a good place to be, there are complications everywhere but I think that church , any good church, is a good place to go, I could definatly think of worse environments to fellowship although I agree that we are able to walk with the lord without going to church every weekend religiously unless you wish to be apart of that family but I get plenty of fellowship starting from my own 6 person family at home.

I definatly would like my children to go to church more, they do need it.

 

[cougan]

Cougan, I have spoken of myself because this is a fellowship forum, not a theology forum and the subject was a personal question so I could only talk about myself couldn’t I. However I have noticed that you have not told us anything about yourself. Were do you go to church, aren’t you American? Why have you followed me hear from our theological discussion into an Australian fellowship forum to judge me? I will take your judgments into account mate however, I do think you misunderstood my post because of the way you replied.

Cougan, you are more than welcome to come to our Aussie fellowship forum mate but please do it without flaming, maybe next post you could tell us a little about were you go to church instead of coming all the way from another thread to have a go at me. I will answer you in our other thread, you didn’t need to follow me hear

My apologies, didnt realize I was in fellowship thread. I clicked on your Avatar and looked at where else you had been out of curiosity. You seem like a person that is very interested in spiritual matters and resemble the Bereans in Acts 17 and I appreicate that about you. I try to be the same way an open book always learning and growing because that is exactly what God want from us. I realize I could of worded my post in softer manner but I wanted you to really think about what it means to not assemble with the saints. I was not trying to judge you. I was only showing what the word of God said on the matter. I get stired up when here of someone not wanting to assemble with the saints which is the body of Christ because he purchased it with his own blood Acts 20:28. I will discuss this more with you in PM. Oh yeah one last thing I only read the one post not the entire thread.

Once again, I apologize for bringing theolgy into this thread.

Now to answer your questions. I am American. What I try to do is to follow the pattern that God has laid out in his word. He told us to worship him in spirit (from the heart) and in truth (Jn 17:17 his word) John 4:24. I firmly belive that Jesus only built one church Mat 16:18 and we can be that one church when we follow his word. Now the building that we meet at is not the church because the people are what make up the church. Now the designation on the buiding that we meet at is ONE OF the bibical names found in the Bible church of Christ Rom 16:16. I firmly belive that since Jesus purchased the church singualar with his own blood then we should name the church in such a way that it will glorify Jesus and not a religious act or some man. 1Cor. 1:10-13.

I will refrain from posting here again. Obviously I lack the abilty not to bring Gods Word into my post.