What causes poverty in the US

[enchantedscribe]

Poverty in the USA as in all other nations is caused by "poverty".

Several time throughout US history, our leaders have attempted to do away with or diminish poverty by increasing the minimum wage. But all that has done, over and over again, is raise the poverty level and often, the numbers of individuals that fall into poverty.

One thing I would like to add on this point is that in the last 10 years they have not raised the minimun wage from $5.15. However, the cost of medical care and groceries and gasoline have went up increasingly. For $5.15, you can buy a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread if you shop cheaply. You can buy a gallon and a half of gas. You can pay for about 10 seconds of a doctors visit. This is absolutely ridiculous. Even with a college education these days, you may not be able to get the job that you desire with your education.

I have so much to say on this topic. Having lived in both a middle/low income class family and then living in poverty after becoming disabled after an automobile accident which was caused by a hit and run. I know how it is from both sides. When I did have a home and such, I did missionaries and seen true poverty where families lived in cardboard boxes without any medical care other than that which we brought to them. To say that, a child could die without food and go to heaven but there parent wouldn't because they didn't know God was so far from the truth. These were God fearing people who we went to minister to. I seen more faith in these people overseas then I seen in most people in America. I seen more gratitude than more people I see in America. I think that is truly what helped me to become so grateful to God and content, when I may have only had maybe five bites of food for one day and water. I was so content and knew that God was there for me. I felt His presence in such a mighty way. It all comes down to being content. However, the church does have a roll in taking care of those who are less fornuate. I followed God's word when I had the means to share. If you truly follow the Holy Spirit, He will lead you the ones in your church to share with or those just walking along the street. Sometimes it maybe those who are dressed like they have money, but you would never know the dire needs they have. Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. Remember one thing, You can never... Out Give God!!!
Hugs, Smiles and Laughter,
Sister, Tammy

 

[TexasSky]

Well, I answered "both", however, the answer I would have picked was not available, "none of the above".

Poverty in the USA as in all other nations is caused by "poverty".

Because poverty and wealth are relative terms, usually at opposite ends of a spectrum, it is impossible to do away with either.

Several time throughout US history, our leaders have attempted to do away with or diminish poverty by increasing the minimum wage. But all that has done, over and over again, is raise the poverty level and often, the numbers of individuals that fall into poverty. Even in societies (socialist and communist) that attempt to balance the difference between the wealthy and the impoverished through wealth redistribution, the only affect seem to be to increase the numbers of people that are living below their needs.

By world standards, even our most impoverished Americans live better than even the well-to-do in most other nations.

That said, I believe that it is simply "selfishness" that expands the poverty we do see her in the US.

SELFISHNESS #1

IMHO, the MOST selfish are the men who have fathered and then abandoned their children through extra-marital sex or divorce. Most of the children from these relationships repeat the cycle. The resulting depression and frustration drives many into substance abuse and/or criminal activity.

SELFISHNESS #2

Parents that are so caught up in the "Gotta-have-it" world that they spend all their time and efforts building an Earthly "kingdom", focused on THEIR wants, THEIR desires, THEIR needs rather than on raising God-fearing, God-loving children.

This is also a form of GREED.

SELFISHNESS #3

People who think someone else, probably the government, is responsible for the needs of the down-trodden, the hungry, the naked or the homeless, rather than themselves, their local church, synagog, mosque or civic organization. Historically, the further away from the actual source of aid (the actual giver), the less affective aid becomes.

This is also a form of LAZINESS.

I also believe that the current generation of children up to around 24 years will likely come to comprise the largest group of impoverished adults in US history, primarily because most do not know HOW to work, nor do the know HOW to give back to society.

I pray that I am wrong.

I work for a top tier University, and I do a lot of work with young people in High School and Junior High because of church or my own children.

My experience with the people under 25 is that they are, by and large, amazing and wonderful.

Those of us who are "older" like to talk about how our children are "not keeping up" with other nations in terms of education - the fact is, a sixth grader in today's school in the United States knows more than most college sophomores from 1970 and back. The reason is they are required to learn more. Go look at the SAT "prep-questions" if you want an idea of what your children are learning.

Do they work for a living? Many of them simply can't because they have so many requirements from school activities or church activities. That does not mean they are sleeping until 2 in the afternoon though. It means they are working for free.

If, however, you are right and they do NOT know "how to work," do not blame them. Children are much more likely to "do as I do," then "do as I say." It they are lazy, they probably have a lazy parent.

 

[TexasSky]

Can I share a brief story as well? What really got us in trouble was:
We live in an area where jobs are fleeing at an alarming rate. The best job we could get was delivering newspapers which beleive it or not was a raise in pay. Over the years that 365 day a year job saw rising costs of vehicle maintance and no increase in pay. There was no recorse but to find a different job. But jobs are few and far ubetween and with education, as you said, it is hard to find a job because they don't want to pay more and are skeptical if you offer to work for less. Now we are incredibly blessed to have a house where our mortgage payments are only $230 a month but, we also have 5 children to support, tight but not impossible when things were going well, it soon got to the point where we were making and tying to survive with 5 children on 2-3 dollars an hour. that is impossible in this society. To add insult to injury, inflation added to our budget, increases in water, gas, electric, and food. Purchasing clothing had already gone by the wayside. When something would break down, you either ate or left it broken down. Soon the choice was food or fuel to keep the job and before the whole thing ended it was credit for food or starve. We are doing some better now, found another job, get food stamps, and filing bankruptcy all the while starting a business using scraps to make wood quilts, but it was not decisions that put us there, it was a company that saw it more prudent to remodel their building with expesive decor than to pay their people enough to do the job. I have one friend who knows someone who was working for the same company who when she subtracted the cost of doing the job, was working for $0. Since we secured another job, they have further cut wages and the old timers have been without any raise in over 30 years. Most are one break down from loosing thier job and with the job, does the income the lucky ones, have another job to fall bakc on, the unlucky ones are fighting the enormous crowd of people looking for work. My husband had one teaching interview for one position in which over 200 people applied for the job. This is common place around here.

God bless you.

There are thousands of Americans just like you.

In Texas Enron destroyed lives. Totally destroyed them.

Are the employees who trusted the employers to blame?

 

[TexasSky]

One thing I would like to add on this point is that in the last 10 years they have not raised the minimun wage from $5.15. However, the cost of medical care and groceries and gasoline have went up increasingly. For $5.15, you can buy a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread if you shop cheaply. You can buy a gallon and a half of gas. You can pay for about 10 seconds of a doctors visit. This is absolutely ridiculous. Even with a college education these days, you may not be able to get the job that you desire with your education.

I have so much to say on this topic. Having lived in both a middle/low income class family and then living in poverty after becoming disabled after an automobile accident which was caused by a hit and run. I know how it is from both sides. When I did have a home and such, I did missionaries and seen true poverty where families lived in cardboard boxes without any medical care other than that which we brought to them. To say that, a child could die without food and go to heaven but there parent wouldn't because they didn't know God was so far from the truth. These were God fearing people who we went to minister to. I seen more faith in these people overseas then I seen in most people in America. I seen more gratitude than more people I see in America. I think that is truly what helped me to become so grateful to God and content, when I may have only had maybe five bites of food for one day and water. I was so content and knew that God was there for me. I felt His presence in such a mighty way. It all comes down to being content. However, the church does have a roll in taking care of those who are less fornuate. I followed God's word when I had the means to share. If you truly follow the Holy Spirit, He will lead you the ones in your church to share with or those just walking along the street. Sometimes it maybe those who are dressed like they have money, but you would never know the dire needs they have. Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. Remember one thing, You can never... Out Give God!!!
Hugs, Smiles and Laughter,
Sister, Tammy

I'm so glad that you shared this. It is true that we cannot out give God.

Something you said made me think though. In many places in the USA people cannot "live in cardboard" even if they wanted to. They are either forced into dorm housing situations where they lose what little dignity they have left and are treated like children - or they are arrested for vagrancy.

 

[Natman]

One thing I would like to add on this point is that in the last 10 years they have not raised the minimun wage from $5.15. However, the cost of medical care and groceries and gasoline have went up increasingly. For $5.15, you can buy a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread if you shop cheaply. You can buy a gallon and a half of gas. You can pay for about 10 seconds of a doctors visit.

Enchantedscribe,

If you have ever taken an economics class, you know that it doesn't really matter what the wage level is within a closed economic system. By "closed economic system", I mean a system where there is a fixed amount of money in circulation. Free enterprise will dictate the value of any particular item. In such a system, as the price of one item goes up, either the price or the usage of another item will diminish as they vie for limited capital until there is a balance.

I seen more faith in these people overseas then I seen in most people in America. I seen more gratitude than more people I see in America.

I think that if you ask most pastors, they will tell you that the hardest people to minister and witness to are the wealthy. We had a pastor who had been a very successsful leader of a rural church in Tennessee. We asked him what he thought about coming to our middle to upper class church here in Houston. He said "This will be the hardest pastorate I have ever had. I Tennessee we could gove someone a well used washing machine and they would have been extremely grateful. Here, people have so much money, they don't NEED ANYTHING. SO why do they need God?"

However, the church does have a roll in taking care of those who are less fornuate.

I agree 100%. Based on God's plan, the church should be the FIRST place we turn when we need help. Of course for that to work, the members also need to be following God's plan by bringing tithes and offerings so that the church is prepared and able to help.

 

[Natman]

I work for a top tier University, and I do a lot of work with young people in High School and Junior High because of church or my own children.

My experience with the people under 25 is that they are, by and large, amazing and wonderful.

Your opening statement pretty much indicates why you could have the view you do. That is because, at a "top tier university", you are exposed primarily to the crem-de-la-crem, the top 5% most students.

Go look at the SAT "prep-questions" if you want an idea of what your children are learning.

We have three teenagers and have recently gone through the SAT prep-questions. ALthough there is MORE information available, the basics are still the same as what we went through 35 years ago.

Do they work for a living? Many of them simply can't because they have so many requirements from school activities or church activities. That does not mean they are sleeping until 2 in the afternoon though. It means they are working for free.

Even if they are not working at a "job", they are not working for "free". As parents and tax payers, we are paying heavily for their tuition.

If, however, you are right and they do NOT know "how to work," do not blame them. Children are much more likely to "do as I do," then "do as I say." It they are lazy, they probably have a lazy parent.

Some are. However, in my neck of the woods, the parents are working long and hard in order to provide the "lifestyle" to which they would like to become accustomed, meaning that they simply do not have time to have a close and personal relationship with their children.

My life WAS like that until I prayed for God to intevene. Within three months, I was laid off from a job I had for almost 25 years. I soon found a position at a company closer to home, working far fewer hours for half the salary. WHAT A BLESSING!!! Now I am home every night to spend time with the kids (and best of all my wife), to help them with their projects and cheer them on in their activities. LIFE IS GOOD!!!

 

[TexasSky]

I posted this in another thread, but thought it belonged here as well.

Minimum wage in the USA is $5.15 an hour.
A forty hour work week would result in a gross pay of $206.
If someone worked 40 hours a week, for 52 weeks a year, and never missed an hour of work (no vacation days, no sick days)... they would earn a gross salary of $10,712.
Every employee is required to contribute 6.2% of their income to social security. You can avoid income tax, you cannot avoid SSI. So his NET income is now reduced to 10,047.14 a year.
That comes down to a maximum possible take home pay of $837.32
If they find REALLY cheap housing for $400 a month, they have $437.32 left.
Assume they have "cheap" utilities of $200 a month TOTAL.
That leaves $237.32 a month.
In the other thread I just took 237.32 and divided by 4, but that isn't accurate. It gives a "higher" number by about $3 a week.
To accurately compute weekly take home, multiple 237.32 * 12, then divide by 52.
That gives you $54.76 a week take home for food, clothing, transportation, entertainment.
$54.76 a week is $7.82 a day.
So you have worked an 8 hour day, to end up with $7.82 to buy food, clothing and entertainment for that 24 hour period.

How much food can you buy for $7.82?

 

[razzelflabben]

I'm so glad that you shared this. It is true that we cannot out give God.

Something you said made me think though. In many places in the USA people cannot "live in cardboard" even if they wanted to. They are either forced into dorm housing situations where they lose what little dignity they have left and are treated like children - or they are arrested for vagrancy.

WEather can also be a factor, in this area, when old weather hits, shelters are jammed full. In Wash. state, it is the camp grounds that are full. When we were in Wash. the camp grounds were not only full of the homeless, but they pushed the limits of how long they could stay in the given grounds, when the "officials" came through and chased us out, we simply went to another grounds till chased out again. It was the routine for those of us lucky enough to have tents.

 

[KellyLeigh]

I voted laziness and other. The real reason for poverty in America and the whole wrold for that matter is a very simple 5 letter word: GREED. Perhaps if all of the rich people would learn about the sin of being greedy and began to share their money, poverty would no longer be a problem. All we need is for everyone to sell their million dollar homes and buy a normal sized one, then use the left over money to buy a home for some homeless families. Then instead of buying tons and tons of clothing, all of which cost over 300 dollars a piece, they buy normal priced ones at a normal amount, they could cloth all of the homeless and impoverished people. You get the point. If people weren't so greedy and would only use the part of their income that they need and donated the rest to others, there wouldnt be a problem of poverty.

 

[KellyLeigh]

Minimum wage in the USA is $5.15 an hour.

Minimum wage where i live (NY) is 6 something an hour and they are going to raise it to 7 dollars soon. This still isn't enough for someone to live off, but like i said before, if people werent so greedy, it wouldn't matter if one family only earned 7 dollars an hour

 

[crazymichael]

thank God for capitalism

 

[cubanito]

There really ought to have been a few other choices added: Drug Abuse, Teen Pregnancy out of wedlock, and Mental Illness. Maybe also: Getting Your Morals From MTV.

JR

 

[ebia]

There really ought to have been a few other choices added: Drug Abuse, Teen Pregnancy out of wedlock, and Mental Illness. Maybe also: Getting Your Morals From MTV.

JR

Cause or effect?

 

[MikeMcK]

Crazymicheal, you claim to be a Libertarian but you want to discuss Marx? The Libertarian party is 100% against that thinking. The Libertarians believe in a capitalist free market society, with NO gov't interference, not state run communism. We believe that the gov't is what's screwing it up.

You should learn more about the political party you claim to support. Marxism, socialism and communism is about the polar opposite of what the Libertarians believe.

I've been forced to put CrazyMichael (an appropriate screen name if ever there was one) on my ignore list, but in my experience, he does have a rather long history of crowing about how he is a Libertarian and then saying that he supports such socialist and government interventionism policies that fly right in the face of what Libertarianism stands for.

Seems there ought to be a rule against intentionally misrepresenting your political or faith icon.

 

[MikeMcK]

...or they are arrested for vagrancy.

Oh, if only they would bring back vagrancy laws, I might be able to walk from Independance Mall to City Hall without being accosted by the bums who hang out on Market Street.

God help any woman walking alone in Center City, as these guys are allowed to run free.

I work for a top tier University, and I do a lot of work with young people in High School and Junior High because of church or my own children.

My experience with the people under 25 is that they are, by and large, amazing and wonderful.

The younger students I teach are terrible. Public schools have left them completely unprepared for college.

They don't show up half the time. They won't study. They didn't learn the things in high school that most of us were taught by eight grade. They have no manners or respect for anyone.

I only teach a handful of classes each semester but I always end up throwing at least two students out of class.

 

[cubanito]

Vagrancy laws are good for both the vagrant and society. If they are homeless, force them into a home, with or without bas. If they also have a mental illness, let's treat that, by force (many schizoophrenics and bipolars refuse their medicines, and the courts currently endorse their "right" to remain insane). If they have a drug abuse problem, let's by force implant in their abdominal cavities devices that slowly release drug inhibitors making it IMPOSSIBLE for them to use drugs again. If they are repeated, PROVEN, pedophiles (none of this coaching kids to say what you want), then lock them up for life. If they are violent offenders, do the same BUT remove all the gyms, TV's and other jailhouse amenities.

I was homeless for the first 6 months of my arrival in the USA in 1966, BEFORE the "great society". My family climbed itself out, and did not take any govt. programs (except one time, when my mother volunteered for medical experimentation to save my sister's life in the womb, and the researchers signed them up on Medicaid). Never a food stamp, a grant, a nothing, not even student loans. None of this affirmative action either, even though by Federal guidelines I can claim being "Afro-American (what a stupid phrase) and Hispanic status. NADA, zippo, just working together as an extended family and living like pack rats in the worst neighborhoods of NYC. You know, the kind of immigrant story that made this nation great, not the "gimme, gimme" crowd we now seem to attract.

So where are we now, 40 years later? Well, I am medical director of ALF's, those are places were the Govt provides FREE housing, food and medical care and asks only these in return: do not be violent, do not be high, do not molest children.. That's it, that is ALL the USA demands to take care of 100% of your needs and even give you a little pocket change. Little privacy, not exactly the best of roomates, but no worries. And STILL the vagrants are out there. Because they WANT to be!

I can not speak about illegal migrant workers. I can not speak for small communities. But I CAN speak for large cities because I've been through the whole gammut: from sleeping outdoors and stealing food to being a medical professor, now in charge of various centers for the homeless (and making a lot of money at it!).

The vagrant in America generally CHOOSES that lifestile. Are there exceptions? Of course, there certainly are. They are those that go into the system and come back out to try again. I do NOT advocate eliminating the "safety net", yes it is my income so I certainly could have ulterior motives lurking the darkness of my heart. Yet I would like to think that I agree with providing a real alternative for homelessness, an alternative my family and I did not have in 1966. But enough is enough. Food, shelter and medical treatment is enough. No more, not also handouts on the street and accomodations so that vagrants cann accost people at every turn, urinate the sidewalk and endanger traffic for handouts.

And BTW, I love this country. All my family expected was freedom and opportunity, and we got that.

Take a look at immigrant groups in this country. Some out-succeed the natives (us Cubans, the Asians, the Jamaicans) while others go nowhere. There are cultural reasons for that. They boil down to a single very unPC word: FATHER. A stable, strong, respected father who is the servant-leader of his family. Not a wife beating drunkard, or a drive-by-night sperm doning thug, nor an effeminate fearful metrosexual. No sir, well except for the metrosexual part (my dad LOVES cologne, good clothing and even the occasional manicure) No I mean the kind of dad my father is, and I try to be, and my sister's husband and so on in my extended family. The provider, the protector, the leader, the tender warrior who sacrifices every want to serve his family, but DEMANDS respect for it, and enforces the law, reasonably, but clearly.

FATHER is the secret to reducing poverty anywhere (reducing, for the poor have you always). It is precisely what the "Great Society" is meant to destroy, by encouraging women economically not to marry.

You want a responsible man ladies? First respect yourself and be chaste. Then, and this is sooooo forgotten by so many, respect your husband. Men are more interested in respect than emotional love (I make here a distinction of love from sex). My wife knows this well. I still get a chill when she will suddenly call me "sir" in public. And she does it on purpose, to shove it up the noses of the typical American wife, grown up on sitcoms where the father is either a bufoon, or an abusive sadistic coward.

You want to suceed young man? Stay off Drugs, Sex and Rock and Roll (entertainment). Stay in school, trade school is fine. I know multimillionaire electricians, who instead of sitting in college used those years to build up their own company, backed by a master's license. Or if not, dedicate yourself to climb the corporate ladder, which means eschewing body piercing and practicing the fine art of rear-kissing. This country is so wide open in opportunities it SHOULD be embarrasing to be on the dole (not for a time, anyone can have a misfortune,)

Are you a young woman, why you have even more opportunity. You can shut your womb closed, and paly with the guys as long as you want, and the insane practice of affirmative action even gives you a head start. Or you can, as my wife did, find a husband and paly house (our first kid arrived when she was 19, it was HER choice). But if you take 2, forget a career until your kid is well into elementary. It's your choice, but don't foist your kid on day care.

Few of you have ever gone to bed hungry, getting a single soup-kitchen meal a day. Few of you have shivered in the cold as your feet stuck out the bottom of the cloth blanket and gathered snow. Few of you have had to work since the age of 10 so the family could survive. Don't tell ME about poverty!!!!

JR

 

[cubanito]

Oh yeah, and a word about freedom. Because of the PC police, these opinions I keep to myself around certain people. Call me a hypocrite all you want. those that actually get their hands dirty by tending to the poor know my opinions, and generally share them (there are occasional "true believers" but they grow fewer over the years). I'm talking about the higher ups in big plush offices that only see a homeless, after we select a "nice one", for a phioto up. Oh yes, the Senators, congressmen and even Governor whose hand I've shaken and smiled to. Not all of them, but the majority, especially (but not exclusively) of one party, are a pack of hypocrites. So yes, when swimming with those sharks I behave like a remora. I don't actually say anything I don't believe, but I say it sweetly and mostly keep my mouth shut, eating the leftovers of YOUR tax dollars after the sharks tear into it.

Hey, that's the truth, and I see my reflection in the mirror, and it all aint pretty. If the US of A is going to slide down into a socialist state, well then, I can play that game too. I was raised in Castro's Cuba. I am well versed in hypocrisy.

JR

 

[razzelflabben]

Few of you have ever gone to bed hungry, getting a single soup-kitchen meal a day. Few of you have shivered in the cold as your feet stuck out the bottom of the cloth blanket and gathered snow. Few of you have had to work since the age of 10 so the family could survive. Don't tell ME about poverty!!!!

JR

and some of us have. I agree with most of what you have said, but I also know from first hand experience that the number of exceptions are more numerous than you seem to believe. Our experiences color our ideas, which is why I asked people this question. Many in the US see things one of two ways, 1. no one has/had it as bad as me or 2. you are only there because that is what you choose. I purpose to you and everyone else reading this that there is a middle ground. A place there we understand that some people do have it as bad or worse than I did and that sometimes the situation is the way it is because of things out of my control.

Many people over the years have equated me to Job. Something I am not comfortable with because I have not suffered as much as he did, however, it has made me take the time to contenplate Job's situation and the end results of said. The thing is this, Job did everything right, and he still suffered. Why? because that was in God's plan for Job. I purpose to all of you who are suffering through poverty to take comfort in knowing that if you weren't strong enough to handle it, God wouldn't allow you to be there and all you who are not living in poverty, it is that same God who has blessed you with abundance, not to be judgemental, but to be good stewards. The bottom line is that we don't know why someone is living in poverty, only that God has either put them there or allowed them to be there so that He might be glorified. God says that when we do it unto the least of these brethren we are doing it unto Him. I wonder if we looked at the poor, the vengrant, the homeless, etc. through the eyes of Christ, where those very same "unclean" in our society would be?!?

Lord, give us the eyes and heart to see people as you do, and the strength to Love them the way you do.

 

[razzelflabben]

Want to hear something kind of funny? Sun. we had a feature article in the local newspaper, an article about the bussiness we are trying to start. It is the same newspaper that cut our pay so much that it drove us to bankruptcy. Long story, bottom line, before we had the oppertunity to leave that job, we were making 2-3 dollars an hour and had to keep up a vehicle to keep the job. Anyway, I thought it was funny.

 

[intricatic]

This is a very interesting post.

How much money is "needed to raise a family"?

Where I live the cost of living is fairly low.
None the less; "cheap" housing runs $600 a month, before utilities. I have "cheaper" than that because I locked into a low interest rate on the unpaid balance of a loan someone else defaulted on years ago. Today my house would sell for 3 times what I paid for it, and the payments on it would be 3 to 4 times what I currently pay. I'm lucky. Right now its generally just my son and I, and we aren't home from 8 to 4. We're pretty good about turning things off, but monthly electricity is $140; gas averages out to $100 a month. Sometimes it is MUCH higher, sometimes it is lower, but that's the average, need a phone? A car? Gasoline for the car? Figured out what groceries run? Milk had been as high as gasoline. A loaf of bread is over a $1, if you want GOOD bread its over $1.50, eggs are about 89 cents a dozen. Do you eat meat?

Now, I DON'T make 40,000, even with child support.

In my area, $40,000 a year is what a tenured professor with many years of experience and a Ph.D. earns.

Most Americans have jobs that are on a much lower pay scale. They are clerical staff, administrative staff, gas station attendants, waiters, construction workers, they are the clerks that take your money at the utility company.

Are they all "irresponsible" and "uneducated" and "making bad decisions"?

I hated, absolutely HATED the "new" supervsior at my last job and she hated me. Prior to her arrival, I had excellent evaluations and almost annual raises. Because of our personality differences, that changed when she came in. I wanted out and she wanted me out. I hunted for 7 months. I was told over and over and over "You are over qualified," or "We want you, but we can't afford you." When I offered to work for less than my current salary, they got leary, "Why would you do that? What's wrong with you," was the attitude. I found a better job, and I got more money, but was I "making poor decisions" at the time I was afraid I was going to end up on the streets? What we "conflicted" over was that I wanted to follow company policy, and she didn't. I wanted to offer fair and professional services to our clientele and she considered the clientele to be annoyances in her day. I showed up at work on time and left late. She showed up 3 hours late, took 3 hour lunches and left 2 hours early, and I resented that. Was I "making bad choices" to refuse to lie for her when the boss called and she wasn't in?

I hope your education does well by you, but don't make the assumptions you are about the poor. They are just wrong assumptions.

Wrong assumptions. Indeed. I make $8,000 a year right now and only recently found a way to discontinue having to sleep in my car and eat tunafish out of cans for meals.

I'm saying that $40,000 a year is what I expect to make when I graduate college - which is something that I decided was much more important than simply sitting around wishing I had money - and I fought to find a way to realize it. Now I'm here, doing it. In South Florida, where I am right now, $40,000 would be an incredibly tight budget regardless of where you decide to live. Perhaps that number will change by the time I have the ability to move back up North where the cost of living is half what it is here.

When I said I've lived below the poverty line, it's because my parents combined income was hardly enough to pay for food and clothes. We never fed off of any social programs, though, and I started working in "construction trades" when I was 15 so I could buy the car that I was, up until recently, sleeping in.

I make the assumptions about the poor that I do strictly because I've been there and done that, I've known people in much worse places in their lives than I have ever been in, and mostly it's because they get lost in our overly-complicated system that could honestly care less about the people it effects. To further complicate the situation, some of these people don't have any motivation to work towards anything better. That's a decision everyone has to make, and many people are afraid of any kind of change, especially if it includes any sort of risk.