What caused the Universe?

[doubtingmerle]

OK, I'll bite....why is that a problem?

Uh, because the sun was created long before trees. Genesis has it backwards.

 

[AV1611VET]

Uh, because the sun was created long before trees. Genesis has it backwards.

I believe God chose His order of creation, knowing that in the latter days, cosmic evolution would become a viable alternative with unbelievers.

For instance, He created angiosperms before the sun, knowing that in the latter days plants before the sun would be considered impossible.

It's a way of separating the wheat from the chaff.

Yesterday my wife and I took our pet to the vet and got a lecture on the evolution of kidneys.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yesterday my wife and I took our pet to the vet and got a lecture on the evolution of kidneys.

Because, of course, the evolution of kidneys help to understand the current functioning of kidneys.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because, of course, the evolution of kidneys help to understand the current functioning of kidneys.

Funny ... that understanding didn't come out in the lecture.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I believe God chose His order of creation, knowing that in the latter days, cosmic evolution would become a viable alternative with unbelievers.

Sorry, I disagree. The sun was here long before trees existed.

And the earth was not created in six days. And Adam never named all the beasts. And snakes don't talk. And people didn't live to be 900 years old. And there were no gods breeding with women before the flood. And the earth was never completely flooded. And it is not a good thing to set out to kills one's son as Abraham was supposedly told to do.

The creator of the universe would have known not to write these things.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry, I disagree. The sun was here long before trees existed.

And the earth was not created in six days. And Adam never named all the beasts. And snakes don't talk. And people didn't live to be 900 years old. And there were no gods breeding with women before the flood. And the earth was never completely flooded. And it is not a good thing to set out to kills one's son as Abraham was supposedly told to do.

The creator of the universe would have known not to write these things.

Thanks for the QED.

 

[-57]

Logic applies to everything, including religious claims.
And I never claimed the universe came from nothing.

Then where did the stuff come from?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Then where did the stuff come from?

Previous stuff. This stuff was all stuffed together into one condensed ball prior to the Big Bang. And before that, where was that stuff? We don't know. The stuff might always have existed in that ball. The stuff might have come from a quantum fluctuation in an expanding multiverse. Our stuff might have gotten sucked in through a black hole of a previous universe, which came from a previous universe, ad infinitum. It might have been that once every trillion trillion trillion years a quantum fluctuation creates a universe of stuff, and an equal and opposite universe of anti-stuff that have a net mass/energy of zero. Stuff might come from a God made of spiritual stuff, or from forces of nature made of spiritual stuff. I don't know.

Where do you think the stuff came from?

 

[-57]

Uh, because the sun was created long before trees. Genesis has it backwards.

I thought you were referring to biblical contradictions rather than supposed scientific contradictions...or in Genesis case miracles performed by God. heck, you could point out the reserrection as one of your contradictions...or even floating ax heads.

But then again you did witness the sun form...right?

I would recommend you buff up on "starlight and time"

 

[-57]

Previous stuff. This stuff was all stuffed together into one condensed ball prior to the Big Bang. And before that, where was that stuff? We don't know. The stuff might always have existed in that ball. The stuff might have come from a quantum fluctuation in an expanding multiverse. Our stuff might have gotten sucked in through a black hole of a previous universe, which came from a previous universe, ad infinitum. It might have been that once every trillion trillion trillion years a quantum fluctuation creates a universe of stuff, and an equal and opposite universe of anti-stuff that have a net mass/energy of zero. Stuff might come from a God made of spiritual stuff, or from forces of nature made of spiritual stuff. I don't know.

Where do you think the stuff came from?

I know where the stuff came from. God spoke it into existance.

 

[doubtingmerle]

But then again you did witness the sun form...right?

No, and my hunch is that you didn't witness the sun being formed either.

But I have good evidence the sun was not formed in 4004 BC.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I know where the stuff came from. God spoke it into existance.

And where did the stuff come from that your God is made of?

 

[-57]

No, and my hunch is that you didn't witness the sun being formed either.

But I have good evidence the sun was not formed in 4004 BC.

I have a text that was written.."inspired" ..by the one that did the creating.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I have a text that was written.."inspired" ..by the one that did the creating.

...and who thought the entire earth was flooded, and that it was a good thing to tell Abraham to set out to kill his son?

 

[-57]

And where did the stuff come from that your God is made of?

I've explained this to you several times...when will you at least GET the concept?

You can't self create stuff from nothing. There is the requirement for a creator. Considering the creator could not have created Himself...the creator had to have always existed if there is stuff today.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, and my hunch is that you didn't witness the sun being formed either.

Neither did God.

But I have good evidence the sun was not formed in 4004 BC.

Do you know the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia?

 

[AV1611VET]

And where did the stuff come from that your God is made of?

God is self-existent.

 

[-57]

...and who thought the entire earth was flooded, and that it was a good thing to tell Abraham to set out to kill his son?

OK, so now you're moving the goal post....and presenting scripture in an out of context fashion...all the while missing the true meaning. Why do you insist on distorting the bible, inserting false meaning to it? Why can't you honestly understand what it says...then disagree with it if you choose to?

The way you presented Abraham and his son clearly tells me you haven't made the link between God and His Son...and the scapegoat God provided Abraham. You tend to mock something you know nothing about.

 

[AV1611VET]

... and that it was a good thing to tell Abraham to set out to kill his son?

That made Isaac a type of Christ.

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, so now you're moving the goal post....

Yes, indeed.

You can't get them to stay on topic when discussing the Creation Week.

They always ... without exception ... want to bring up everything BUT the creation events.

That's why I tell others, when discussing creation, never let someone bring up events that happened after that week, or the discussion is over.