What caused the Universe?

[MasonP]

You've never been in a foxhole, have you?

How many Christians died in fox holes during WWII and the Korean war? being a Christian in a fox hole makes no difference at all.

 

[AV1611VET]

Like the universe?

Negative.

 

[AV1611VET]

How many Christians died in fox holes during WWII and the Korean war? being a Christian in a fox hole makes no difference at all.

FYI there are no atheists in Hell and no scientists in Heaven.

 

[Chriliman]

Criliiman,

If we don't know, what is wrong with saying, "I don't know"? Per the OP, I don't know. Would it better for me to make something up?

Nothing wrong with that, I think it's the natural default position when one is not convinced either way, but the fact that you don't know is what initiates curiosity and I believe that's by design.

Perhaps the designer forgot to include that feature in me? I seem to have been born a questioner.

Questioning is what leads to faith in any certain eternal concept that can potentially explain existence as we know it. After a period of time of questioning, many come to a conclusion as to what to put their faith in.

Ah, we all tend to have confidence in things that we don't have good evidence for. OK, yes, I do have that trait too. But when my questioning mind sees that is happening, I usually revert to, "I don't know."

Agreed, and it's the realization that you don't know that initiates your curiosity and the desire to question, which can lead to faith in an eternal explanation.

Actually we do have evidence for the big bang. Here is a quick overview. More details can be found here. Is that sufficient for you?

Thanks for the links, I'll have to check them out. To clarify, I don't think the big bang theory really counts as an eternal concept because it would have begun, so whatever caused the big bang(if it's true) is the potential eternal force in question.

If you perceive his power and influence, then you are talking about something more than faith. You are talking about evidence. I perceive the power and influence of electrons, but I can't see them. It is indeed logical to go from perception of power and influence to inference of existence.

The point is that I haven't actually seen God, but I have faith He is there and is influencing people in different ways to help them understand what is true and free them from deception.

However, I question that the power and influence you experience initiated the Universe. Do you have any good reason to believe the power and influence that you experience initiated the universe?

One reason is that God says in Scripture that he created the heavens and the earth, which would explain why we see an apparent beginning to the universe.

 

[-57]

Out of nothing or was there stuff already there?We know because you just told us what stuff was.What we want to know is why you keep referring to whatever your God is as a 'Him'? does he have male genitalia that makes 'Him' a male?

The creator God is a trinity. 1 in essence and 3 in person. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[-57]

That´s quite a leap from "something" to a "Him".

I'm using biblical terms. No leap involved.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What we want to know is why you keep referring to whatever your God is as a 'Him'? does he have male genitalia that makes 'Him' a male?

Believe the Bible or not, it will give you an idea of why "him" as well as "whatever" God is.

But my guess is you know both those answers quite well and your just being contrary...thing is, I don't get why?

 

[MasonP]

Believe the Bible or not, it will give you an idea of why "him" as well as "whatever" God is.
But my guess is you know both those answers quite well and your just being contrary...thing is, I don't get why?

Gods came originally from the imaginations of men and are perpetuated by other men, some because they believe it and some others use a God to make themselves fortunes, either way the Gods are all myths.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Gods came originally from the imaginations of men and are perpetuated by other men, some because they believe it and some others use a God to make themselves fortunes, either way the Gods are all myths.

We are on a Christian forum that concerns the God of the Bible, you almost have to know what God we speak of, whether you believe him a myth or not.

 

[HitchSlap]

The creator God is a trinity. 1 in essence and 3 in person. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Logical fallacy. It's either one god, or three. It can't be both.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Questioning is what leads to faith in any certain eternal concept that can potentially explain existence as we know it. After a period of time of questioning, many come to a conclusion as to what to put their faith in.

And many others, after a period of questioning, come to the point where they realize their biblical faith was not reasonable, and turn to explore new worlds. That was my experience.

To clarify, I don't think the big bang theory really counts as an eternal concept because it would have begun, so whatever caused the big bang(if it's true) is the potential eternal force in question.

And unfortunately, we may never know what caused the Big Bang, because the laws of physics as we know them break down at the singularity from which came the Big Bang.

I think perhaps there is some sort of multiverse out there, that occasionally pops out universes such as ours, but I don't know.

One reason is that God says in Scripture that he created the heavens and the earth, which would explain why we see an apparent beginning to the universe.

If you assume God wrote Genesis, yes. But I find so many errors in Genesis, I cannot believe the source of the universe wrote it.

 

[-57]

Logical fallacy. It's either one god, or three. It can't be both.

Yes, the truth is quite a stumbling block for you.
Perhaps it a logical fallacy for you because you are applying natural human thought to it rather than spiritual thought.

...then again you apply natural though to the impossible when you say the stuff in the universe came from nothing. Your thought contradict when you claim stuff can be and not be at the same time.

 

[-57]

If you assume God wrote Genesis, yes. But I find so many errors in Genesis, I cannot believe the source of the universe wrote it.

Name just one.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Name just one.

Genesis 1 says the trees were created before the sun.

 

[-57]

Genesis 1 says the trees were created before the sun.

OK, I'll bite....why is that a problem?

 

[quatona]

Yes, the truth is quite a stumbling block for you.
Perhaps it a logical fallacy for you because you are applying natural human thought to it rather than spiritual thought.

It´s not a logical fallacy because you are applying spiritual thought.
I´m applying super-mega-spiritual thought, in which it is a logical fallacy.

...then again you apply natural though to the impossible when you say the stuff in the universe came from nothing. Your thought contradict when you claim stuff can be and not be at the same time.

Except nobody said that.

 

[HitchSlap]

Yes, the truth is quite a stumbling block for you.
Perhaps it a logical fallacy for you because you are applying natural human thought to it rather than spiritual thought.

...then again you apply natural though to the impossible when you say the stuff in the universe came from nothing. Your thought contradict when you claim stuff can be and not be at the same time.

Logic applies to everything, including religious claims.
And I never claimed the universe came from nothing.

 

[Kenny'sID]

And I never claimed the universe came from nothing.

You all pretty much claim that, and then pretty much deny the claim, and just recently decided to go with, "I don't know" in order to cover everything.

There is a certain entertainment value to it all though so, all is not lost.

 

[MasonP]

You all pretty much claim that, and then pretty much deny the claim, and just recently decided to go with, "I don't know" in order to cover everything.

You say it all came from nothing when you say your imaginary God created everything from nothing.
We don't know where it all came from and we admit it, you on the other hand claim an imaginary God did it all, where is the sense in that?

 

[quatona]

You all pretty much claim that, and then pretty much deny the claim, and just recently decided to go with, "I don't know" in order to cover everything.

Find us the quotes where we all say this. (I, on the other hand, can find you quotes where I said that I don´t believe there has ever been a state of nothingness).
In fact, creatio ex nihilo is a Christian idea.