What bishop prayed at the Democratic Convention?

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Uh, the last I checked, neither president Bush NOR our troops are bombing any churches. The muslim radicals are doing that completely of their own volition. I'm really tired of people justifying every evil they (Muslims) do by blaming either republicans, democrats, or evangelical protestants. EVERYONE makes their own choices in life. These people choose to hate and murder. It wouldn't matter who or what party is in office in this country. This cr*p has been going on over there (middle east) for a thousand years. Yes, I wish both parties would get of their yachts or horses and do something about the bloodshed in Serbia.

PS: The republicanS made abortion legal??? Wasn't it just one supreme court justice?

 

[ExOrienteLux]

I never said either Party is bombing Serbia now. But, they're not doing anything to try to stop the bloodshed, either. That's what gets my goat.

But I don't feel like getting into politics, so I think I'll shut up about this issue for now.

 

[Reader Nilus]

Uh, the last I checked, neither president Bush NOR our troops are bombing any churches. The muslim radicals are doing that completely of their own volition. I'm really tired of people justifying every evil they (Muslims) do by blaming either republicans, democrats, or evangelical protestants. EVERYONE makes their own choices in life. These people choose to hate and murder. It wouldn't matter who or what party is in office in this country. This cr*p has been going on over there (middle east) for a thousand years. Yes, I wish both parties would get of their yachts or horses and do something about the bloodshed in Serbia.

PS: The republicanS made abortion legal??? Wasn't it just one supreme court justice?

These are the justices that voted to legalize abortion. There were 5 Republican appointees and 2 Democrat appointees that voted for it. 2 justices did not agree one democrat and one republican.

Blackmun Nixon appointee ( R )
Burger Nixon appointee ( R )
Douglas Roosevelt appointee ( D )
Brennan Eisenhower appointee ( R )
Stewart Eisenhower appointee ( R )
Powell Nixon appointee ( R )
Marshall Kennedy appointee ( D )
Jeff the Finn

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

These are the justices that voted to legalize abortion. There were 5 Republican appointees and 2 Democrat appointees that voted for it. 2 justices did not agree one democrat and one republican.

Blackmun Nixon appointee ( R )
Burger Nixon appointee ( R )
Douglas Roosevelt appointee ( D )
Brennan Eisenhower appointee ( R )
Stewart Eisenhower appointee ( R )
Powell Nixon appointee ( R )
Marshall Kennedy appointee ( D )
Jeff the Finn

Well, thanks for the history lesson. I notice that 5 republicans voted to legalize it. There are several million republicans in this country. It's not the republican's fault that those justices had an error in judgement. Who legalized it in the first place seems like kind of a moot point anyway. We need to deal with the present.

 

[MariaRegina]

Isn't Eisenhower the same President who sent thousands of Russian soldiers located in Germany at the end of WWII back to Russia to their certain deaths? From what I studied in history, they were packed in cattle cars by the American forces with no food, water or blankets and thousands died in route.

He's no fan of mine. Neither do I consider him a good "Republican" - same applies to Tricky Dick, who was considered to be a Democrat in Republican clothing.

Let us pray for their souls.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Uh, the last I checked, neither president Bush NOR our troops are bombing any churches. The muslim radicals are doing that completely of their own volition. I'm really tired of people justifying every evil they (Muslims) do by blaming either republicans, democrats, or evangelical protestants. EVERYONE makes their own choices in life. These people choose to hate and murder. It wouldn't matter who or what party is in office in this country. This cr*p has been going on over there (middle east) for a thousand years. Yes, I wish both parties would get of their yachts or horses and do something about the bloodshed in Serbia.

PS: The republicanS made abortion legal??? Wasn't it just one supreme court justice?

The American troops have no respect for their Mosques. So just like some people build a hate for all Muslims for the actions of a few, some Muslims build a hate for all Christians for the actions of few.

So if Bush and the rest of the extremists didn't give the Muslims such of bad taste for all Christians, these Churches would have not been bombed.

 

[Reader Nilus]

It is true Nixon and IKE would not be welcome by the republicans today, as the party of 30 years ago does not exist anymore. Goldwater himself would not be welcome by what passes for republican today. Once upon a time the republicans were fiscal conservatives, not anymore judging by what Bush has done in the last 3 years. Once upon a time republicans did not want to hassle Americans, not anymore.
The point is it was the Supreme Court, and as long as that stands the president or congress can do nothing about it. They can appoint judges, but as IKE observed that once on the bench they have a mind of their own. To have abortion as a litmus test of a politician for either congress or president is not bright at all, because they can do zippo about abortion. Just think for a bit about the Court, if you want to get rid of Roe-v-Wade you have to have "liberal justices" because "conservative justices" do not overturn prior supreme court rulings. To ask a potential justice to the supreme court if they would overturn Roe-v-Wade, is to ask about something, if they answered would have to exclude themselves from if it entered the court, because they have already stated their opinion! So how are you going to pick justices that will rule what you want in Roe-v-Wade, and not go off somewhere else go against something near and dear? It is a gamble no matter what and that is why abortion is a republican red herring, because they have had the presidency and congress for the last 3 years and have done zippo about abortion. Why, because they can not do anything.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Rilian]

The American troops have no respect for their Mosques. So just like some people build a hate for all Muslims for the actions of a few, some Muslims build a hate for all Christians for the actions of few.

So if Bush and the rest of the extremists didn't give the Muslims such of bad taste for all Christians, these Churches would have not been bombed.

They have no respect for Mosques, don't you think that might not be just a wee bit rhetorical?

The problem is the situation is a good deal more complicated and of longer scope than what the current U.S. administration is doing. The fate of the Christian minorities has been steadily worsening since the early 20th century when the Ottoman Empire collapsed. That was at a time when the U.S. had no political involvement or interest in the Middle East beyond protecting the few Christian missionaries that operated there (they were key in raising awareness of the Armenian genocide for instance).

What we’ve seen since the 40's has been a dramatic increase in the plight of native Middle Eastern Christians. The establishment of the state of Israel has displaced many Christians and Muslims in the Holy Land. America’s unflinching military and monetary support for Israel has in large part fueled modern militant Islam. That is why in the 70’s for instance you began to see Coptic churches being burned and Copts killed by groups like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which later morphed into Islamic Jihad. Movements like this have met up with other purist Islamic movements such as the Wahabbis that make up the core of Bin Laden’s followers. They see the world in two camps; that of the Crusader and the Jew and that of the followers of Islam (at least their version of it anyway). The Christians of the Middle East are essentially friendless and are often the scapegoats for what is occurring around them. The West won’t act to protect them (look at what’s been going on in Darfur for instance), and they are increasingly surrounded by a hostile and militant form of Islam.

They are between a rock and a hard place, and I wouldn’t fool yourself into thinking their plight will improve much depending on who is the current U.S. president.

 

[Reader Nilus]

The Assyrian Christians before Bush invaded Iraq warned their condition would become much worse with Saddam gone. Saddam was not a religious fanatic but the replacement most likely will be.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Oblio]

They have no respect for Mosques, don't you think that might not be just a wee bit rhetorical?

I'll have to agree with Rilian. If they had no respect, they would have bulldozed one each time a US soldier was killed by a roadside IED.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

They have no respect for Mosques, don't you think that might not be just a wee bit rhetorical?

The problem is the situation is a good deal more complicated and of longer scope than what the current U.S. administration is doing. The fate of the Christian minorities has been steadily worsening since the early 20th century when the Ottoman Empire collapsed. That was at a time when the U.S. had no political involvement or interest in the Middle East beyond protecting the few Christian missionaries that operated there (they were key in raising awareness of the Armenian genocide for instance).

What we’ve seen since the 40's has been a dramatic increase in the plight of native Middle Eastern Christians. The establishment of the state of Israel has displaced many Christians and Muslims in the Holy Land. America’s unflinching military and monetary support for Israel has in large part fueled modern militant Islam. That is why in the 70’s for instance you began to see Coptic churches being burned and Copts killed by groups like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which later morphed into Islamic Jihad. Movements like this have met up with other purist Islamic movements such as the Wahabbis that make up the core of Bin Laden’s followers. They see the world in two camps; that of the Crusader and the Jew and that of the followers of Islam (at least their version of it anyway). The Christians of the Middle East are essentially friendless and are often the scapegoats for what is occurring around them. The West won’t act to protect them (look at what’s been going on in Darfur for instance), and they are increasingly surrounded by a hostile and militant form of Islam.

They are between a rock and a hard place, and I wouldn’t fool yourself into thinking their plight will improve much depending on who is the current U.S. president.

As soon as America dropped the first bomb in Afghanistan, Churches all over the Islamic world came under attack like they had not seen in a long time.

Coptics didn't so much come under attack because some Muslims became militarized because of a Jewish state. It was because the Jewish state was supported by a certain Christian country, known as America.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

I'll have to agree with Rilian. If they had no respect, they would have bulldozed one each time a US soldier was killed by a roadside IED.

And lose the support of every Iraqi? That would be a pretty deadly strategy.

 

[Oblio]

And lose the support of every Iraqi? That would be a pretty deadly strategy.

I'm not saying that is a good strategy, or a moral one, I am just pointing out that it is not true that they had no respect by pointing out what a total lack of respect would look like.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

I'm not saying that is a good strategy, or a moral one, I am just pointing out that it is not true that they had no respect by pointing out what a total lack of respect would look like.

Well, I guess we could say Stalin didn't have no respect for Orthodoxy, because he left some Churches standing?

 

[MariaRegina]

Such exaggerations take our minds away from God.

Let's just pray that all may be saved.

 

[Rilian]

As soon as America dropped the first bomb in Afghanistan, Churches all over the Islamic world came under attack like they had not seen in a long time.

Are you sure, what are you basing that on?

Coptics didn't so much come under attack because some Muslims became militarized because of a Jewish state. It was because the Jewish state was supported by a certain Christian country, known as America.

I'm not clear on what the significance is of your distinction. The Copts have fallen victim to the rise of militant Islam in Egypt. Militant Islam has arisen in Egypt and a number of other places for many reasons, one of which is American and Western support for Israel, but there are many others which predate that. Overall, they are now unwitting victims of a conflict with which they have no part.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Are you sure, what are you basing that on?

I am quite sure. I vividly recall the talk on the news about how the attacks on Christian were greatly rising, due to Christianity being associated with the USA. I recall the reports were from CNN and the BBC.

I'm not clear on what the significance is of your distinction. The Copts have fallen victim to the rise of militant Islam in Egypt. Militant Islam has arisen in Egypt and a number of other places for many reasons, one of which is American and Western support for Israel, but there are many others which predate that. Overall, they are now unwitting victims of a conflict with which they have no part.

Side not* The Copts even faced persecution under the Byzantine Empire.


Think about the greatest Islamic calls to arms in the 20th century, and why they came about? Even the one in Egypt came about because of a pro American leader, that the American government was manipulating for Israel. Don't forget, Israel is nothing without America.


Now, I agree that the Copts have had a bad wrap overall. My point is that there are many crimes directed to them today because of the USA's policies.

 

[Rilian]

Think about the greatest Islamic calls to arms in the 20th century, and why they came about? Even the one in Egypt came about because of a pro American leader, that the American government was manipulating for Israel. Don't forget, Israel is nothing without America.

Now, I agree that the Copts have had a bad wrap overall. My point is that there are many crimes directed to them today because of the USA's policies.

I'm no fan of our Middle East policies, and believe me I'm well aware of the massive amount of direct aid we ship to Israel with no strings attached. Year after year they are our biggest foreign recipients, it will be $2.6 billion this year, 2.2 of which is military aid.

The only thing I'm saying is there's more to the story. Anti Christian violence in the Middle East goes back further, think of the Armenian pogroms for instance or the anti Greek riots in Turkey in the 50's and 60's. What people like Bin Laden talk about goes back even further than that. They talk about the expulsion of the Muslims from Spain in the middle ages and the fall of the caliphates at the end of the 19th century. Ultimately they espouse a pure Islam that predates the intervening effects of Itjihad and they see the modern day problems as a direct result of the corruption of Islam through this type of interpretation. That's why they bypass mainstream institutions like Al-Azhar and open schools like the Madrassas.

Our support of Israel brings this all to a head, but don't underestimate the importance that European imperialism played in making what happened possible. It was the Balfour agreement of Great Britain for instance that put Israel on the map, and their inability to handle the Suez crisis that put America at the forefront of Western power in the Middle East. There's lots of fingers in the pie, and while the Europeans have been criticizing us, they have proven largely ineffectual at stopping the violence and cultural destruction that has taken place in Kosovo under the watch of KFOR.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

I'm no fan of our Middle East policies, and believe me I'm well aware of the massive amount of direct aid we ship to Israel with no strings attached. Year after year they are our biggest foreign recipients, it will be $2.6 billion this year, 2.2 of which is military aid.

The only thing I'm saying is there's more to the story. Anti Christian violence in the Middle East goes back further, think of the Armenian pogroms for instance or the anti Greek riots in Turkey in the 50's and 60's. What people like Bin Laden talk about goes back even further than that. They talk about the expulsion of the Muslims from Spain in the middle ages and the fall of the caliphates at the end of the 19th century. Ultimately they espouse a pure Islam that predates the intervening effects of Itjihad and they see the modern day problems as a direct result of the corruption of Islam through this type of interpretation. That's why they bypass mainstream institutions like Al-Azhar and open schools like the Madrassas.

Our support of Israel brings this all to a head, but don't underestimate the importance that European imperialism played in making what happened possible. It was the Balfour agreement of Great Britain for instance that put Israel on the map, and their inability to handle the Suez crisis that put America at the forefront of Western power in the Middle East. There's lots of fingers in the pie, and while the Europeans have been criticizing us, they have proven largely ineffectual at stopping the violence and cultural destruction that has taken place in Kosovo under the watch of KFOR.

I guessed we agreed all along than.

 

[katherine2001]

Before we keep calling the Democrats pro child-murder, we may want to remember that war and bombs do the same thing. Since we have no bombs that have sensors that can pick out pregnant women and children and avoid them, I'm sure that many pregnant women and pre-born and post-born children. Neither candidate is pro-life totally. Bush doesn't support abortion, but he has no problem with war or capital punishment. He has no problem bombing our enemies, which then kills pregnant women and children, both pre-born and post-born. Some choice we have. This is why I probably will not vote in the Presidential race. As far as I'm concerned, neither one of them comes out as being totally pro-life or pro-children. It seems to me that both candidates are supporting murder of children, just by different methods. As the "war on terrorism" spreads, I'm sure this issue will come up again many times.

GUIDO/MOUSE IN 2004!