What are your thoughts?...

[redblue22]

we got two threads on the same thing. neither one adds up.

 

[KayJones87]

im sorry for that. The reason is, is because the other one was started so long ago and I posted in it, but then i thought that maybe that thread was so old that it was closed, So i started a new one. Im sorry for confusing people, I just don't know how to use forums apparently

 

[blackribbon]

Kay..you are using the forum just fine. We all have to learn by doing. There a bunch of us who know your story and don't find this the least bit confusing ... and everything adds up just fine.

RedBlue...welcome to the Mature Singles...but be gentle. Look how many posts Kay has versus how many you have. We all have to learn some at some point.

 

[KayJones87]

Ok. Im back. I know I wish i could be done with this topic. I really do and I'm sure ya'll are sick of hearing about it, but it really helps to get peoples insight. Current status: We are still broken up. We talk occasionally, mainly about food and recipes and just as friends. No more good morning/ good night texts, nothing cutesy. But the feelings are both still there. We are simply trying to do what's right. But it DOESN'T feel right. The biggest question is what actions do we have to do to truly repent and make this right in God's eyes and in the eyes of everyone else as well? I've scoured the internet and every article states that we must never speak to one another again and ask forgiveness from our spouses. Problem: I've divorced and my husband has forgiven my sins and moved on. We had no children, so i did not ruin any childrens' lives. We don't want to continue with what we started in sin, because what was started in sin cannot be blessed. But what must we do to make it ok again? Must we never speak again, although we have repented in our hearts and begun to walk a path to Christ? We are no longer sinning, but since we started out in a sinful affair, is it impossible for this to be turned into a blessing. He states that since he had an affair he can never be married to anyone now because he is not good enough to be anyone's husband. I also know too that since im divorced I cannot remarry because my husband is still alive and that would be continous adultery against him and God. Are we meant then to part and never marry and never speak and be miserable the rest of our lives with this black cloud over our heads? any thoughts on a plan of action would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

It sounds to me like you guys are trying to live a legalistic life. If that is true than everything you said about never speaking again and being miserable sounds about right. But it doesn't sound like God would want or expect it to be that way.
The problem is still that HE is not willing to make it right by standing beside the woman he claims to love and say he loves you and is going to marry you. He is more concerned about his outside appearances.

You ask what more can you two do? How about being a couple in front of the parents, the church, and God? If he cannot do that, you are wasting your time IMO. God forgave you as soon as you asked. Actually He forgave you before you asked, because He died on the cross for you, but repentance requires that WE ask for forgiveness. You have done that. You are forgiven in the eyes of God. This guy is concerned about what everyone will think of him and it sounds like he wants to still keep you a secret by saying he can never be married because he is not good enough to be anyone's husband.

Not being able to have what we want can hurt. It CAN feel like it's not right, but we cannot be ruled by our feelings. You act like he is the only guy on the planet that could love you and I'm not buying that. I don't feel like he loves you. Sorry to be harsh, but if a guy loves a woman, he will move heaven and earth if he can to be with her, or to make her happy.
He was in the secret sexual relationship WITH you right? He shares an equal responsibility, but it just doesn't seem like he cares that much.
Honestly I don't know why you continue to torment yourself with this guy. Is he going to stand up to his parents and profess his love for you? Is he going to give up his duties at the church for you? WHAT is he willing to do FOR YOU to be WITH YOU that you just cannot let go?

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

You seem to think that once you do certain sins, you are forever ruined somehow. You seem to think that even after you repent and go a different way, you should continue to measure yourself by your failures. It is like life is an earthly purgatory and you have to keep being punished until you are pure enough for God to accept you. You want to take your burden to the cross but then you pick it right up again and carry it with you. You will stay trapped in your past as long as you do this.

 

[iambren]

Being gentle here--BUT have you ever considered that the problem is how HE perceives YOU (now post sexual sin) and not how you all are perceived by THEM. He may be using them as an excuse for not following through with a relationship with you.

Some men in the shadow of the madonna/harlot haze are slippery in their ideals toward a woman. He may have assigned you adversely and is unconcious of this or is too weak to deal with it (OR,the worst) he knows and just wants to drag you on as a friend.

 

[KayJones87]

Yes, I guess you could consider our views fairly legalistic. Conservative for sure. He is deeply confused and conflicted, I do agree. I see in his heart he truly just wants to be right with God, but his little brother is getting married soon and he is the best man. When his family finds out that he had an affair with a woman who left her husband (although it was NOT for him, but for other reasons, all will see it as me leaving my husband for him) and is now divorced and that he is still seeing her, he will be shunned and he breaks down crying stating that he wants to see his brother get married. He honestly wants to go public, but doesn't know how to go about it without being shunned by everyone. I honestly don't think that he is ashamed of me and wants to string me along. He is very kind and honest. I truly believe he does have good intentions. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything but doesn't know how to make it work. I don't think he has malicious intent, he is just honestly confused and conflicted. He wants US as a couple, he wants God to be pleased with him and he wants to keep his family too. We are trying to figure out how to balance all three the RIGHT way.

as of right now, my plan is as follows. I have felt called to become a teacher so i am getting my elementary education degree. TN doesn't really need teachers as much as other states, so I am also packing up and relocating to SC (yes, where he lives) to start completely fresh when my lease is up here in March. I will get a job and work on my degree there and I will sit and bide my time and pray and after his brother's wedding in May, perhaps we can finally sit down with his parents and family and get all this out in the open. Then we can date in the same city as normal healthy Christians should and kind of "start over" If THAT doesn't work out and we can no longer have contact, then I will listen to God and see if his plan is for me to stay single or if another man will be brought into my path. That's all I can really do. But two things i feel certain about. I am meant to teach today's youth and i am meant to start life over in SC.

 

[miss-a]

Ok. Im back. I know I wish i could be done with this topic. I really do and I'm sure ya'll are sick of hearing about it, but it really helps to get peoples insight. Current status: We are still broken up. We talk occasionally, mainly about food and recipes and just as friends. No more good morning/ good night texts, nothing cutesy. But the feelings are both still there. We are simply trying to do what's right. But it DOESN'T feel right. The biggest question is what actions do we have to do to truly repent and make this right in God's eyes and in the eyes of everyone else as well? I've scoured the internet and every article states that we must never speak to one another again and ask forgiveness from our spouses. Problem: I've divorced and my husband has forgiven my sins and moved on. We had no children, so i did not ruin any childrens' lives. We don't want to continue with what we started in sin, because what was started in sin cannot be blessed. But what must we do to make it ok again? Must we never speak again, although we have repented in our hearts and begun to walk a path to Christ? We are no longer sinning, but since we started out in a sinful affair, is it impossible for this to be turned into a blessing. He states that since he had an affair he can never be married to anyone now because he is not good enough to be anyone's husband. I also know too that since im divorced I cannot remarry because my husband is still alive and that would be continous adultery against him and God. Are we meant then to part and never marry and never speak and be miserable the rest of our lives with this black cloud over our heads? any thoughts on a plan of action would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again

I think the best thing is to get good counsel from pastors and mature Christians who can be trusted to tell you the truth, even if the truth is the thing you do not want to hear.

My opinion is that you have been through a lot and your heart needs a lot of time to heal. It does not sound like either of you are in any kind of condition to be in a relationship. And I don't think having contact with him at this time, even for recipes, is healthy for you or him. Because, is it really about the recipes? Probably not. It might be good to choose to stay out of touch for a good long period of time and spend that time getting counsel on how to heal from this and getting to know the Lord and His love for you better. Without healing and without an accurate picture of His love for you, making good decisions is almost impossible. Give yourself a year or two to focus on letting Jesus heal your heart. Get to know who He really is. It will change everything.

Prayers for you,
a

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Yes, I guess you could consider our views fairly legalistic. Conservative for sure. He is deeply confused and conflicted, I do agree. I see in his heart he truly just wants to be right with God, but his little brother is getting married soon and he is the best man. When his family finds out that he had an affair with a woman who left her husband (although it was NOT for him, but for other reasons, all will see it as me leaving my husband for him) and is now divorced and that he is still seeing her, he will be shunned and he breaks down crying stating that he wants to see his brother get married. He honestly wants to go public, but doesn't know how to go about it without being shunned by everyone. I honestly don't think that he is ashamed of me and wants to string me along. He is very kind and honest. I truly believe he does have good intentions. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything but doesn't know how to make it work. I don't think he has malicious intent, he is just honestly confused and conflicted. He wants US as a couple, he wants God to be pleased with him and he wants to keep his family too. We are trying to figure out how to balance all three the RIGHT way.

as of right now, my plan is as follows. I have felt called to become a teacher so i am getting my elementary education degree. TN doesn't really need teachers as much as other states, so I am also packing up and relocating to SC (yes, where he lives) to start completely fresh when my lease is up here in March. I will get a job and work on my degree there and I will sit and bide my time and pray and after his brother's wedding in May, perhaps we can finally sit down with his parents and family and get all this out in the open. Then we can date in the same city as normal healthy Christians should and kind of "start over" If THAT doesn't work out and we can no longer have contact, then I will listen to God and see if his plan is for me to stay single or if another man will be brought into my path. That's all I can really do. But two things i feel certain about. I am meant to teach today's youth and i am meant to start life over in SC.

Well you are going to do whatever you want to do, so if that's what you choose, so be it. I still stand by what I said. He is more concerned with being shunned and losing his family than being with you. The bible says to leave your father and mother and cling to your wife. If you were to someday marry him, how is that going to work if he can't even stand to stand up to them now? I have heard of many people in my life whose parents did not agree with the person they wanted to be with. You know what they did? Yeah, they told their parents, this is how it is and if you don't like it, too bad. I love them and I am going to be with them. I bolded some of your words above. To me, it's all about him and if you stay in this relationship, be prepared, it will be ultimately all about him and how he feels and what he wants. If you want a life like that....good luck. You say he is very kind and honest? Really? He has not been honest to you nor to anyone that he is concerned about being shunned by...nope not honest. And he was not kind to have a sexual relationship with you in secret. That is not kind either. Now you have an emotional attachment and alot of pain because of what you and he did together. How is that being kind?

 

[KayJones87]

Yes, the affair was not kind to anyone and yes we were hurt because of it. We are paying for the affair still and will be for a long time.

Would you want to be ripped apart from your family? Do you not understand at all the sadness that comes from being rejected from people that you love? I understand his hesitation and I don't agree with your stance of "if you love me, you'll forsake everything else and be there for ME" that seems a little to selfish for my tastes. I also don't agree that everything is about him either. I just end up writing this way because im trying to help find him a solution.

We aren't engaged. I understand the leave and cleave concept and when we get to that point that's another story. But I don't believe that you should seperate from your family when you're dating. Ha, we're not even really dating anymore anyways. Yes. He should tell his family. Yes. He is confused. Yes. I am probably a gullible way-too-hopefull fool for patiently waiting for him. I just want a biblical solution. We want to do what is right and what will bring glory to our God.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

But you have that in Jesus Christ. He died for all your sins, past present and future. You say you both have repented. The bible says that when you repent the God remembers your sins NO more.

The only other thing that is left to be done is to be open about it and that is what HE is stuggling with. So until HE decides you are worth it to come clean with his family regardless of the consequences, you will be where you are now.

Only under legalism, can you never speak again. Only under legalism would you be shunned. I believe in a God that gives grace like He did to the woman at the well who had been married 5 times, and was living with her current BF. He did not damn her to hell or tell her to leave her BF. He told her to believe in HIM, the one that could give her eternal life.
There ARE consequences to our sins, regardless of how sorry we are that we did them. So if the consequence is him being shunned and he is not willing to go there, what then? What if he does not go there, and someday someone finds out anyway? Won't he then be shunned too? What would the difference be except the time he managed to keep the secret? Remember the prodigal son too? He thought surely his dad would not take him back and was prepared to beg just to be a slave. What happened instead? But in the mean time when he was living in his "sin" he had to go thru starvation and lonliness so he had consequences for his actions.
It just doesn't sit right with me that he is trying to "figure out a way" that he won't get shunned (which he thinks are his consequences).
I mean David took Bathsheba and then had her husband killed. He wasn't able to keep that a secret and their first child died and YET he still kept Bathsheba as his wife. That was an adulteress affair! So how is it that the one that was called "a man after God's own heart" can get forgiveness for his adulteress affair, but not your guy?
And if he doesn't come clean with his family, how is that honest? Is he not living a lie right now? And in doing so, adding to his sin?

 

[Elliewaves]

If acknowledging you and a relationship with you is going to "rip him apart from his family"; then something is wrong. I don't think either of you have to fully confess to everyone around you about how you met. You have confessed to God and are repenting. It seems really skewed that his choice is you OR his family. It can be both and it's not that hard of a solution either. If he is continually ashamed of you and his actions with you then I don't think he'll ever work up the courage to acknowledge your existance. You don't need that kind of guilt. You are both adults and can either chose to be in each other's lives or not. I understand family pressure to be with the right kind of person, but if you want to be with someone then you accept them into your life- good, bad, and ugly.

Based on this thread, I honestly don't think either one of you need to be in a relationship. And he sounds overly dramatic (ripping him from his family, he can never ever marry now, etc...). He's content with you being his dirty little secret. I think you just need to be single for a while and heal, get good Christian counseling from a Godly woman counselor. I can't imagine being in a relationship with a man who constantly holds something like this over my head. You deserve better.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

If acknowledging you and a relationship with you is going to "rip him apart from his family"; then something is wrong. I don't think either of you have to fully confess to everyone around you about how you met. You have confessed to God and are repenting. It seems really skewed that his choice is you OR his family. It can be both and it's not that hard of a solution either. If he is continually ashamed of you and his actions with you then I don't think he'll ever work up the courage to acknowledge your existance. You don't need that kind of guilt. You are both adults and can either chose to be in each other's lives or not. I understand family pressure to be with the right kind of person, but if you want to be with someone then you accept them into your life- good, bad, and ugly.

Based on this thread, I honestly don't think either one of you need to be in a relationship. And he sounds overly dramatic (ripping him from his family, he can never ever marry now, etc...). He's content with you being his dirty little secret. I think you just need to be single for a while and heal, get good Christian counseling from a Godly woman counselor. I can't imagine being in a relationship with a man who constantly holds something like this over my head. You deserve better.

Yep! Bravo

 

[dayhiker]

I agree ... well said.

 

[KayJones87]

We're meeting at a halfway point on his way back from his family's home next weekend on his way back from Thanksgiving. We are going to have a conversation over dinner and I am compiling many thoughts and views about this situation and I honestly think that he's close to understanding that what he's thinking is too legalistic and that he needs to get over his fears. I am assuring him that I am here IF it does come out and we have to face it together, but he is starting to understand that he doesn't have to confess to anyone besides God. I have got some really good biblical examples and verses and sermons from his very own pastor.

OR. I could just give up and move on and tell him he's a big whiney baby and that I deserve better. But that just seems soooo incredibly mean and selfish. I'm telling you guys, YES he is scared and he is thinking about the consequences. YES he is very confused and scared. But he is NOT malicious about this. He honestly just wants to make sure that he is pleasing God and that our relationship would bring glory to God.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I'm really sorry, but you have to be fooling yourself if you believe that he just wants to make sure he's pleasing God. He is concerned about his family disowning him, losing his prestigious "job" at the church and about his appearances. NONE of that has anything to do with pleasing God.

If you end up staying with him, I surely hope he does not become bitter toward you every time something doesn't go his way because he is with you. If he was up front and honest and just said look mom and dad, I love this gal and I'm going to be with her, then I could say MAYBE he is concerned about pleasing God.

No he is not malicious but he IS more concerned about HIS appearances to others and how it will affect HIM, nevermind you are waiting in the wings.

 

[KayJones87]

I am TRYING to help him quell his fears and to find a solution and a way that I can explain things to him best. He is my best friend, even If we never go further in our relationship, I want to help him feel better about his relationship with Christ, because he helped me develop mine. We promised each other to always be there for spiritual support for each other and I didn't come here to slam him and be convinced that he's wrong and I'm somehow better than him and deserve to be treated better. He has problems, but does that mean that I should abandon him in this time of confusion because it's hard? That's mighty easy and convienient. I'd rather go through months or even years to help him through this and whatever he eventually comes to, I will respect it. If one day he does tell me, "look, I can't go public with you and we can't date, sorry" then I understand and I will back off and always be a friend. If he comes to understand what i tell him and show him and he asks me to be his girlfriend and come meet his parents, then great! I'd love to. But Im not just turning my back on him because i'm not getting what I want. That's sad.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

OK well good luck with that. You asked our thoughts. We gave them. It seems you only wanted us to tell you to do what you've already purposed in your heart to do. You are not better than him, or deserve better necessarily, but your relationship is not equal and I sense it never will be, but you have made up your mind. And sometimes God gives us what we think we want even if it's not good for us, because that is the only way to learn the lesson. I hope this is not the case for you, but I, myself, will never be with a man that wants me to be a secret. Not today, not tomorrow, and not ever, but you go ahead. If that's the life you want, you can have it.

 

[KayJones87]

Oh MY GOODNESS! why can't you understand it is NOT his plan to keep me secret forever! If I knew that was his plan of COURSE I would move on. He plans to go public and tell the WORLD that we're dating. The question is HOW?!?! Not IF. How. If we can't answer how and he decides not to, then yes, I'll move on romantically. But I believe we can find the HOW. It is just taking time and research. The first step is being friends on facebook and we're talking about that now. He is working towards telling people about me. He just has to be careful about how he does it. I have been praying and showing him scripture and he is having a SLOW change of heart. I choose to be patient and if i get my heart ripped out and hurt because of that, So be it. Life lesson learned.