What are your thoughts on John Hagee?

[WinBySurrender]

Does anyone understand what RisingSpirit is saying? Is it just me, or is my computer exhibiting a reception impediment?

I think it's a reality impediment from RisingSpirit's end of the Internet. The problem lies between the keyboard and the chair ... if ya git muh drift?

 

[Skala]

Are are "us"? Is it us, the saved? Is it all of us saved and unsaved? Can us be only those that are saved as predestined?

Us = those who are saved now or will be saved in the future.

 

[RisingSpirit]

Does anyone understand what RisingSpirit is saying? Is it just me, or is my computer exhibiting a reception impediment?

Anyway (anyways for those under 30), thanks DeaconDean for that thread, which gets us back to the subject.

H.

Pay attention to my koans.
God is not subject your Easy-Decisionism, Easy-Believism through your own free will

 

[RisingSpirit]

Us = those who are saved now or will be saved in the future.

Do the Baptist of this topic agree with this meaning "us" isn't always everyone of us or all of mankind?

 

[joshua41]

I believe that John Hagee is a messed up preacher.

Several years ago, John Hagee divorced his first wife and married a younger woman. From my understanding, he admitted his immorality infront of his church. A letter that he wrote to the church was used in the divorce case with his wife.

However, that is not the only disgraceful issue John Hagee has been apart of. Currently, John Hagee Ministries has a donor alert issued against them. The ministrywatch website gives their transparency an F rating.

I am not sure why he received an F rating; however, it has been shown that John Hagee appoints family members to his board, and that his compensation package is ridiculous each year.

If you have any reservations regarding a person's theology, they can generally be verified by looking into their personal life and looking for evidence of Godliness. The words that come out of a person's mouth say may say a lot, but how a person lives their life speaks volumes.

 

[WinBySurrender]

If you have any reservations regarding a person's theology, they can generally be verified by looking into their personal life and looking for evidence of Godliness. The words that come out of a person's mouth say may say a lot, but how a person lives their life speaks volumes.

Usually that's correct, but I attended a church for two years in the late 90's where the pastor seemed solid as a rock. But he wasn't.

Lax financial oversight at First Family Church riles some church followers

Bottom line is, keep your eyes open and your wallet closed, even in church, until you're comfortable with the situation.

 

[RisingSpirit]

. . .Several years ago, John Hagee divorced his first wife and married a younger woman. . . .

I been seeing a lot of wives divorce popular preachers. Is it wives tired of the "Obey Me" rituals or what?

 

[WinBySurrender]

I been seeing a lot of wives divorce popular preachers. Is it wives tired of the "Obey Me" rituals or what?

It's not a ritual, it's biblical, and the whole command is "submit ourselves, one to the other." Both spouses submit to the agreed will of the couple, which the Lord has made one flesh.

As to why wives are divorcing popular pastors, in Hagee's case, I'd say it was seeing him for who he really is, and she didn't like it. For many others, it is just plain difficult to be the spouse of a pastor who is sought after by literally millions of Christians. In Dr. Stanley's case several years ago, his wife decided she had been living a lie, that she was not a Christian and she could not remain in the marriage. She apparently had never believed, but had wanted the aura of the successful marriage so much she had deluded everyone, including herself, into believing she was 100% with his ministry.

 

[RisingSpirit]

. . .In Dr. Stanley's case several years ago, his wife decided she had been living a lie, that she was not a Christian and she could not remain in the marriage. She apparently had never believed, but had wanted the aura of the successful marriage so much she had deluded everyone, including herself, into believing she was 100% with his ministry.

Thats very interesting. I think his son also left and started a church in Buckhead outside of Atlanta. Wow ! How in the world did Stanley get that far and then his wife makes a turn.

 

[WinBySurrender]

Thats very interesting. I think his son also left and started a church in Buckhead outside of Atlanta. Wow ! How in the world did Stanley get that far and then his wife makes a turn.

Only God knows. Andy, by the way, is now the Administrative Pastor at First Baptist and will likely assume his father's duties when Charles decides to step down. Andy has preached many messages on the In Touch TV program.

 

[now faith]

Hagee may not talk constantly about money, but he nonetheless is a a preacher of the "prosperity gospel." He believe poverty is a curse and the result of sin and disobedience to the Word. He further claims "your income is controlled by your giving," that what you tithe and offer above that determines how greatly God blesses you financially. There is no biblical basis for these teachings.I haven't heard him preach on that subject because, honestly, I discounted him as a valid messenger and prophet of God long ago. If Hagee is preaching anything other than salvation through Jesus Christ for all men, and those in Judaism who will be saved are included in that, then he is preaching more heresy than I thought.

Well I guess he should preach on holy poverty look how poor I can pretend to be or how much we should enjoy doing without. What is heresy is to critique any one who has done well serving the lord. Just more gossip more envy .

 

[Zugzwang]

This is my first post so please forgive me if I am doing anything incorrectly.

I have attended Pastor John Hagee's church for many years and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that he does NOT preach dual covenant.

He believes ALL must come to the saving knowledge of God's Son Jesus Christ. That is the only way to Heaven.

As for the prosperity part. I believe that the Bible calls us to tithe to the church that "feeds" us, and Pastor does too.

Blessings,

well lets just squash this lie right now & be done with it, eh?

NTEB: John Hagee and Dual Covenant Theology

Middle of the page is a john haggee video advert for "In defense of Israel" where he SAYS that Jesus never claimed to be the messiah!

out of his own mouth, on video. can't be more clearer than that!

 

[DeaconDean]

well lets just squash this lie right now & be done with it, eh?

NTEB: John Hagee and Dual Covenant Theology

Middle of the page is a john haggee video advert for "In defense of Israel" where he SAYS that Jesus never claimed to be the messiah!

out of his own mouth, on video. can't be more clearer than that!

Lets add to this saying that John Hagee is a full blown dispensationalist:

The stars of heaven represent the church. The stars produce light, and the church is commanded to be "the light of the world"...God gave to the Jewish people a physical land whose literal boundries are given in Genesis 15:18-21. It is a specific land with Jerusalem as its capital city forever. The church has been given a heavenly kingdom, just as Christ promised: "In my Fathers house [heaven] are many mansions...I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am [with the Father in heaven], there you may be also" (John 14:2-3) Israel has been given an earthly kingdom with an earthly Jerusalem now located in Israel. The church has been given the New Jerusalem located in heaven.

John Hagee, Jerusalem Countdown: Chapter 15, Has God Rejected Israel? p. 166

Basically, God has one plan for Israel, and one plan for Gentiles, the very heart of Dispensational teaching.

John Hagee also teaches a from of "Universalism".

In the same book, since Romans 9-11 do not apply to Gentiles, he teaches that where it says:

"And so all Israel shall be saved:" -Rom. 11:26 (KJV)

All Israel, the Jews, will be saved. (Jewish Univeralism)

In an interview with John Hagee in Houston Chronicle, John Hagee said Jews already have a covenant with God and a relationship with God and do not need to come to the cross:

I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption.

San Antonio fundamentalist battles anti-Semitism,” Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988, sec. 6, pg. 1

The Jewish race can come to God without going through Jesus Christ. John Hagee is further quoted by the Houston Chronicle as saying:

I'm not trying to convert the Jewish people to the Christian faith...In fact, trying to convert Jews is a ‘waste of time,’ he said. ‘The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people. They (already) have a faith structure.’ Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity.

Ibid

Hagee says preaching the gospel to the Jews is "fruitless":

Inasmuch as God has blinded them to the identity of Messiah, targeting the Jewish people for mass evangelism is fruitless.

John Hagee letter (on Cornerstone Church letterhead) to Erwin M. de Castro of the Christian Research Institute, October 18, 1994, pg. 3, pg. 5, emphasis added.

This is the fruits of John Hagee out of his own mouth.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[RisingSpirit]

I think Hagee is like Jerry Fawell. Some claimed Jerry Falwell is a Christian Zionist meaning their they're the ones that keep wars going. Jerry Falwell welcomes a nuclear war.

Hagee promotes wars. I wouldn't touch him with a hundred foot pole. He takes his beleivers down the wrong road.

 

[His_disciple3]

It has more to do with past, present and future all happening at once. To think every leaf tumbling just the way God made it tumble calls for a different view what God is. If it happened, like a leaf fell this way, then it happened for real. If you see it happen, it is real. Every action is from God. You watching and observing the single leaf is from God's actions. Knowing God has more to do with what you do with the present. Like my name, It will be more obvious if you raise your spirit to your head. Even though many Christians call Zen cultic, at the same time the Monks discovered the meaning of what it means to be one with the watch on your wrist. Something happens when the bottom of your consciousness falls out. You hear the thunders of God for real. Then you have the ah ha ! moment. The Presbyterians are on the right path to discover the awakening ah ha ! moment. To question that the watch isn't one with the wearer will cause the arminian to fall into the free will trap that you'll never escape from. The slug is too slow to catch up with present of God's events. The Presbys are a little faster than the arminian slug. Actually closer to God and his truth.
Note: God did not predestined your events based on what you do down the road of your life. If you think that, you're the slug

I try and share this new found verse concerning calvinism and have yet had a calvinist to respond perhaps you are the one that can explain How the Bible says that even in the last days God has not yet chosen Israel! so The way I see it God doesn't elect then Judge, but rather election is made during the judgement, and thus we are elected by what we do, and By His foreknowledge God knew whom He would judge as a sheep or a goat. So yes By His foreknowledge of the results of judgement, God predestined those before time begin.

Isaiah 13:6-20
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.
15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
KJV

Most definitely talking about the end times , But Now watch this.

Isaiah 14:1
14 For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
KJV

by His foreknowledge He predestined/elected His people, but even between the last days and judgement He has yet to choose Israel, I have always said that yes the Bible teaches election and yes the Bible teaches free-will and have never been able to link the two together til Isaiah 14:1 Praise the Lord, God does not elect then judge but rather elects while He judges,

by the way how did a thread about John Hagee turn into calvinism?

 

[His_disciple3]

Lets add to this saying that John Hagee is a full blown dispensationalist:



John Hagee, Jerusalem Countdown: Chapter 15, Has God Rejected Israel? p. 166

Basically, God has one plan for Israel, and one plan for Gentiles, the very heart of Dispensational teaching.

John Hagee also teaches a from of "Universalism".

In the same book, since Romans 9-11 do not apply to Gentiles, he teaches that where it says:

"And so all Israel shall be saved:" -Rom. 11:26 (KJV)

All Israel, the Jews, will be saved. (Jewish Univeralism)

In an interview with John Hagee in Houston Chronicle, John Hagee said Jews already have a covenant with God and a relationship with God and do not need to come to the cross:



San Antonio fundamentalist battles anti-Semitism,” Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988, sec. 6, pg. 1

The Jewish race can come to God without going through Jesus Christ. John Hagee is further quoted by the Houston Chronicle as saying:



Ibid

Hagee says preaching the gospel to the Jews is "fruitless":



John Hagee letter (on Cornerstone Church letterhead) to Erwin M. de Castro of the Christian Research Institute, October 18, 1994, pg. 3, pg. 5, emphasis added.

This is the fruits of John Hagee out of his own mouth.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Now I am Not saying there is two covenants, but when I was reading this post, a verse came to my mind and was wondering what was your take on it, verse 28 is the verse I am referring to:


Romans 11:26-29
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

 

[His_disciple3]

Sorry but this is just a bad misrepresentation of what Presybs believe (or any Calvinists)

A person who believes in Biblical predestination believes that God has not only ordained the ends, but also the means to those ends.

That is, God has ordained that the gospel message of Christ is the tool, the means, that He uses to bring people to salvation. The elect (those that are ordained to eternal life/predestined) are only saved by hearing the gospel and putting personal trust in Jesus Christ.

There's no such thing as being predestined to salvation and just suddenly being saved without hearing the gospel and having faith in Christ.

The ends doesn't happen apart from the means to those ends.

God has predestined us to be saved, but he also chosen the method to use to make that happen.

hello Skala, are you saying that the elect upon hearing the gospel can either recieve it or reject it, and the ones that recieve it are the elected ones, for if you are, you are the first presby that I have heard explain presdestination this way!

 

[His_disciple3]

Why didn't phoenixdem make the church a little more lively? Why do people rely on other people to save them when only God does the choosing?

What is the entertainment value of any churches? Do we dance cause we deserve to be saved?

if that is the way the Church was, wouldn't that be predestined by God, and if we try to change things, would we be in the will of God?

 

[SharonL]

I listen to John Hagee every week. Some of the things mentioned in this thread I have never heard (not saying they don't exist - I have never heard them)

He gives Bible references for all he preaches - your relationship with Jesus will tell you if it is right or not - you cannot take any pastor to be the only lifeline to your salvation - that is why it is so important to have a relationship with the Lord and not just a 'go to church on Sunday' relationship. If you walk daily with the leading of the Holy Spirit you will not fall for anything that is not of God - the Holy Spirit will alert you immediately if something is not right.

The Bible tells us God's laws are written in our hearts - we do not have to take the teachings of any church or pastor as 100% the way we should live. That is what the Holy Spirit does in our lives. The minute we hear a Word from a pastor - the Holy Spirit will verify if it is God's way or not. You don't need a label of Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, etc - the only label that is the right one is 'A Child of God - walking hand in hand with Jesus and led by the Holy Spirit and your only goal is doing God's work'

 

[His_disciple3]

well the Bible says do unto others as you would have do unto you, so as for all the ones that has blasted other people in this thread, I think you have asked for this post, there is nothing wrong with preaching that God blesses those that bless Him, look at the old testaments saints there was some rich people among the number;

Malachi 3:10
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
KJV
Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
KJV

You speak against faith movement like it is cursed. isn't our whole Christianity based on faith alone, I find it like blasphemeing to save that God can save us for an eternity, but He can't take care of us while we are Here on earth. His will be done in earth as it is in heaven!



Isaiah 53:5

5

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
KJV

1 Peter 2:24

24 ​

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Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
KJV

James 5:13-15

13 ​

​

Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

14 ​

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Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 ​

​

And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
KJV

Mark 16:18

18 ​

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.They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

KJV


as far as preaching false doctrines and the Baptist has got it down pat, I see that as puffed up knowledge, Listen I am not trying to blast anyone, but the Bible says that if we confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God then we are borned of God, I have heard all these preachers that has been blasted in here confess That Jesus Christ is the Son of God. so that makes them part of our baptist, no wait, that makes them part of the same body of Christ that us baptist belongs to, we are of the same body and Christ is the head. yes we have to warn against cults and false religions, and believe me there enough of them out there to war against, that we the Body of Christ have no need to war against other parts of the Body of Christ, seek the foundation of our faith and build on that, doctrines are what we build on that foundation, and it doesn't matter if you see someones elses doctrine as weak or not as you see it, we have to look at what it is built on, is the Foundation Jesus Christ? If it is then you are fighting against God himself, just as the disciples saw other people doing the work of the Lord, and told them to join them but they wouldn't we are not to pray for fire to destory john hagee, charles stanley or even the calvinist or believers of free-will, there shall be no schism in the Body of Christ I see this whole thread even some things that I have posted( or maybe the way I posted them) as schisms in the Body. Love one another , hate to break it to some but John hagee believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and even if He didn't you were commanded By God to love Him, love thy enemies saith the Lord!
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