What are your overall opinions of the term "blue eyed soul"?

[Lik3]

Is the term "blue eyed soul" a marketable term to sell music to the "mainstream" in terms of a white artist whose talent is in soul and r&b music? Or would it be disrespectful to call it such? Music is music. No one would define Charlie Pride in a different way from say, a Brad Paisley because of race, so why the blue eyed soul term? I don't recall anyone seeing Eminem as just "blue eyed rap", yet Tupac (RIP) as a legendary black rapper (which) he is. However, I doubt many fans see Eminem any different than they would a black rapper. My guess is that most rap fans see another rapper. When I think of the phrase "blue eyed soul" I would think of Sam Smith, or even a Boy George. I just see them as white guys from the UK who have soulful voices that would even appeal to us as black fans of theirs. It would be, for example, saying that "white boy's got some flavor or something soulful in his voice".

 

[Tanj]

Having never heard of the term "blue eyed soul" before now, I am unable to determine whether you are a teacup in search of a storm or visa versa.

 

[Lik3]

Having never heard of the term "blue eyed soul" before now, I am unable to determine whether you are a teacup in search of a storm or visa versa.

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Tanj]

I don't understand what you mean.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/storm-in-a-teacup

 

[Lik3]

Oh, okay.

 

[zephcom]

Is the term "blue eyed soul" a marketable term to sell music to the "mainstream" in terms of a white artist whose talent is in soul and r&b music? Or would it be disrespectful to call it such? Music is music. No one would define Charlie Pride in a different way from say, a Brad Paisley because of race, so why the blue eyed soul term? I don't recall anyone seeing Eminem as just "blue eyed rap", yet Tupac (RIP) as a legendary black rapper (which) he is. However, I doubt many fans see Eminem any different than they would a black rapper. My guess is that most rap fans see another rapper. When I think of the phrase "blue eyed soul" I would think of Sam Smith, or even a Boy George. I just see them as white guys from the UK who have soulful voices that would even appeal to us as black fans of theirs. It would be, for example, saying that "white boy's got some flavor or something soulful in his voice".

The answer to your first question is "Yes". Wikipedia has an article about Soul music in which the term "Blue Eyed Soul" is defined as White people singing a genre which originated out of the Black community.

If one were to study the history of music in America, one would find a huge amount of racial profiling and discrimination all through it. Radio stations would actively refuse to play Black artists on the air and many White artists got their fame from 'covering' Black songs so they could be played on White radio stations.

Elvis Presley's manager, Colonel Parker, was reported as telling people when he signed Presley that he was going to become rich because he found "a White boy who sings Colored".

There is a long tradition in music of White people capitalizing on the Black community. Because of that tradition, attempting to make Charlie Pride the reverse equivalent of what has occurred is a non-starter. The Black community has never plundered the Country music scene on anything near the scale the White community has plundered the Black music scene.

 

[Babe Ruth]

Is the term "blue eyed soul" a marketable term to sell music to the "mainstream" in terms of a white artist whose talent is in soul and r&b music? Or would it be disrespectful to call it such ?

I don't think the term is offensive. I think it's a fair & utilitarian term, maybe dated tho. Just my opinion..

 

[Dave-W]

. When I think of the phrase "blue eyed soul" I would think of Sam Smith, or even a Boy George.

The classic "blue eyed soul" artists I am familiar with are the Righteous Brothers, Johnny River, and maybe Rare Earth. (the latter actually recorded on Motown)

I don't see the term as offensive, any more than "British Blues" is offensive to real Blues artists.

https://www.discogs.com/Various-History-Of-British-Blues-Volume-One/release/3314978

 

[durangodawood]

....Elvis Presley's manager, Colonel Parker, was reported as telling people when he signed Presley that he was going to become rich because he found "a White boy who sings Colored"....

I dont blame the artists. I mean, who wouldnt want to play 'black' styles of music? Theyre great!

I definitely do blame the music business for historically shutting blacks out of larger markets, and various predatory practices.

 

[zephcom]

I dont blame the artists. I mean, who wouldnt want to play 'black' styles of music? Theyre great!

I definitely do blame the music business for historically shutting blacks out of larger markets, and various predatory practices.

I wasn't necessarily blaming anyone. Rather I was illustrating how the process worked as White people capitalized on the popularity of Black music. By having a 'white' person who sang the Black music nearly as well as the original Black people, the music was sanitized for White audiences and the cash stayed within the White community.

Remember, this was all happening in the mid-Fifties before the racial upheavals of the Sixties. Over time the ban of black artists on 'White' radio stations was broken thanks to equality laws and Black musical artists became more and more accepted.

 

[Chesterton]

By having a 'white' person who sang the Black music nearly as well as the original Black people, the music was sanitized for White audiences and the cash stayed within the White community.

Black music needed to be sanitized? Like, it had germs in it or something?

 

[zephcom]

Black music needed to be sanitized? Like, it had germs in it or something?

Maybe bleached would be a better word?

 

[durangodawood]

Black music needed to be sanitized? Like, it had germs in it or something?

Yes. Even more so than drinking fountains and swimming pools.

 

[FireDragon76]

The idea that white people just wouldn't listen to music from black artists, as anything more than curiosity, prior to the 60's or 70's is an overly broad generalization. Groups such as the Ink Spots reached a mass audience of whites and blacks well before then.

Cultural diffusion is almost inevitable, and music styles are probably some of the artifacts of culture most amenable to change. Labels such as "R&B" are little more than products of the music industry's attempts at conforming to perceived racial categories.

 

[Dave-W]

Remember, this was all happening in the mid-Fifties before the racial upheavals of the Sixties.

Try going back to the late 1920s and early 30s with very start of the big band swing era music. Look up Red Nichols and the 5 Pennies** who were helped along by a young trumpeter named Louis Armstrong (ol' Satchmo)

** The 5 pennies were:

Jimmy Dorsey
Artie Shaw
Benny Goodman
Glen Miller
Gene Krupa​

5 of the biggest 1940s era band leaders, all in the same band.
Six white men (including Nichols) who made it big on jazz swing music, a style developed by African Americans.

ETA: Goodman became the first to integrate his band when he hired Billie Holiday as a vocalist.

 

[Dave-W]

Black music needed to be sanitized? Like, it had germs in it or something?

I have a good friend named David. He has a Masters degree in Music Theory and Composition, and has penned some amazing worship tunes. He was music minister at the church I attended in college and he got me started playing bass.

A year or so after Integrity Hosanna got started, he was recruited by Gusftason for an arranger position on staff. They asked David what he thought of the first few recordings they had released. In those days everything (including black gospel) Hosanna picked up came out sounding like the Wonderbread Choir; White, bland and no body.

David used the word "blanderizer" to describe the process. He did NOT get the job.

So yes, black music can get sanitized or blanderized.

 

[jayem]

The classic "blue eyed soul" artists I am familiar with are the Righteous Brothers, Johnny River, and maybe Rare Earth. (the latter actually recorded on Motown)

I don't see the term as offensive, any more than "British Blues" is offensive to real Blues artists.

https://www.discogs.com/Various-History-Of-British-Blues-Volume-One/release/3314978

Agree. It's a descriptive term, and not offensive. If anything, it implies that soul music is a unique and distinct genre, that not all singers have the talent to perform well.

BTW, Janis Joplin has to be mentioned, too. And before her was the late Timi Yuro. Who's one of my all-time favorite singers of any style. For a petite Italian-American girl from Chicago, she had an extraordinarily powerful and soulful voice.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Is the term "blue eyed soul" a marketable term to sell music to the "mainstream" in terms of a white artist whose talent is in soul and r&b music? Or would it be disrespectful to call it such? Music is music. No one would define Charlie Pride in a different way from say, a Brad Paisley because of race, so why the blue eyed soul term? I don't recall anyone seeing Eminem as just "blue eyed rap", yet Tupac (RIP) as a legendary black rapper (which) he is. However, I doubt many fans see Eminem any different than they would a black rapper. My guess is that most rap fans see another rapper. When I think of the phrase "blue eyed soul" I would think of Sam Smith, or even a Boy George. I just see them as white guys from the UK who have soulful voices that would even appeal to us as black fans of theirs. It would be, for example, saying that "white boy's got some flavor or something soulful in his voice".

Just out of curiosity...why would you refer to them as "white boys"? Doesn't that seem like it's a little insulting? These are grown men after all...

I'll understand if "white man" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue as well....but "black boy" works equally well and yet somehow, I think the overwhelming majority of grown black men would see it as immediately racist if another race called them "black boys".

 

[Ana the Ist]

The answer to your first question is "Yes". Wikipedia has an article about Soul music in which the term "Blue Eyed Soul" is defined as White people singing a genre which originated out of the Black community.

If one were to study the history of music in America, one would find a huge amount of racial profiling and discrimination all through it. Radio stations would actively refuse to play Black artists on the air and many White artists got their fame from 'covering' Black songs so they could be played on White radio stations.

Elvis Presley's manager, Colonel Parker, was reported as telling people when he signed Presley that he was going to become rich because he found "a White boy who sings Colored".

There is a long tradition in music of White people capitalizing on the Black community. Because of that tradition, attempting to make Charlie Pride the reverse equivalent of what has occurred is a non-starter. The Black community has never plundered the Country music scene on anything near the scale the White community has plundered the Black music scene.

I'm curious where that "line" defining one racial scene from another is drawn. Does it all depend upon who the audience is first?

 

[zephcom]

I'm curious where that "line" defining one racial scene from another is drawn. Does it all depend upon who the audience is first?

I'm sure its me, but I can't understand what your question is about.