What are they afraid of?

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SnuP
Some people are too easily distracted because they don't heve there focas centered on God.  When you are in love, it is very difficult to get distracted.

 

Hey SnuP . . .and that's the truth too!

People are mostly distracted by their own lusts.  Isn't that what James said in James 1:14?  "But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desires".

What's the temptation in a worship service?  The temptation to judge.  The temptation to criticize.  The temptation to blame somebody else when you don't listen to the message.  The temptation to blame somebody else when you don't enter into worship.

When we're blinded by the Light, who can see anything else?

And I have also found the only one's doing the criticizing are not the unsaved but the religious.  Just like in Jesus' day.  While the unchurched followed Him everywhere and hung on His every word, only the religious sought for ways to critique Him and tell Him how He was not following the rules. 

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"We are to worship together, but I don't read anything about everyone doing it together the same way."

Yes, but you can be disruptful or distracting.

Thats your problem. Learn from Peter walking on water.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Some people are too easily distracted because they don't heve there focas centered on God. When you are in love, it is very difficult to get distracted."

Don't be a stumbling block. If they are easily distracted, try harder not to distract them.

 

[LouisBooth]

"
Thats your problem. Learn from Peter walking on water."

Sun, don't be a Cain.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Go tell King David that, remember how he put away his wives for that reason.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Go tell King David that, remember how he put away his wives for that reason.

Dancing in his undergarments in public . . .oh my. . . I wonder how distracting that was?

Oh, and what about that guy in the temple who had been healed of lameness and he was dancin' all over the place.  The pharasees were pretty distracted by that.

And emagine, Mary Magdiline, known to be a prostitute, had the gall to distract a private dinner with her worship of Jesus by pouring expensive oil on His feet and wiping them with her tears.  Why, that was'nt even the proper place for such a thing.

Thanks for reminding me of all that Sunstone. 

 

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Some people are too easily distracted because they don't heve there focas centered on God. When you are in love, it is very difficult to get distracted."

Don't be a stumbling block. If they are easily distracted, try harder not to distract them.

You are being the stumbleing block, the bible says to shout to the Lord, to dance before the Lord with praises. In heaven we are going to sing praises, and dance before the Lord as well.

1. How would getting crazy for the Lord make you sin?

2. Where does it say to praise the Lord in quietness?

 

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Quaffer


Thanks for reminding me of all that Sunstone. 

 

My pleasure!

 

[SnuP]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Some people are too easily distracted because they don't heve there focas centered on God. When you are in love, it is very difficult to get distracted."

Don't be a stumbling block. If they are easily distracted, try harder not to distract them.

So those religeous individuals are allowed to hinder the true worshipers from experience God, just so that they can have a morbid song service that they have the arrogance to call a worship service? 

I will not be put in a box just to accomadate someone's tradition that was established by what some "man" deems to be appropriate.

Such things have hindered God from running his church and allowed the enemy to castrate us.

If God set forth standards for worship in His word, and He has, then we need to follow them and not be concerned with what others think about it.  Do we follow God or serve man?  Worship is for God and God alone.  Therefore mans imput, has no business being allowed to determine how God is worshiped.  You can not please everybody.  You get one group of people feeling passified and another group will feel hindered.  By telling me not to worship God in the way that He leads me so that someone else will not feel distracted, you make yourself a stumbling block in my worship.  The only person that has a right to set standards for a worship service is the bishop of that service.  Anyone else is treading beyond his own authority and trampling on the authority of the bishop.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SnuP
So those religeous individuals are allowed to hinder the true worshipers from experience God, just so that they can have a morbid song service that they have the arrogance to call a worship service? 

I will not be put in a box just to accomadate someone's tradition that was established by what some "man" deem to be appropriate.

Such things have hindered God from running his church and allowed the enemy to castrate us.

If God set forth standards for worship in His word, and He has, then we need to follow them and not be concerned with what others think about it.  Do we follow God or serve man?  Worship is for God and God alone.  Therefore mans imput, has no business being allowed to determine how God is worship.  You can not please everybody.  You get one group of people feeling passified and another group will feel hindered.  By telling me not to worship God in the way that He leads me so that someone else will not feel distracted, you make yourself a stumbling block in my worship.  The only person that has a right to set standards for a worship service is the bishop of that service.  Anyone else is treading beyond his own authority and trampling on the authority of the bishop.

Oooh. . .I can hear music!

Aaaamen, Aaaamen, Aaamen, Amen, Amen. Can ya hear it?

When God first started talking to me about how He wanted me to worship, I had all those excuses too.  The last one was when I said, "but God, I want to give You what's in my heart".  And He said, "but if I'm the One you're doing it for, I want you to do it the way I want".  That pretty much ended the discussion. 

It's not about us. . .It's about HIM     

Well said SnuP!

 

 

[Blackhawk]

I do not understand why people want to put the worship of God in a box. This thread started out with a question of why others who do not agree with noisy worship or dancing, etc. put the worship of God in a box by not allowing it. now it seems that the opposite has occured. God can't be worshipped in quiet stillness? He can't be worshipped in a reverant atmosphere? One has to be loud when worshipping God? No way.

To worship God one ust do it in Spirit and truth. That is the keys to worship. It is not the form you decide to worship God at a particular time. I worship god by giving my all in my classes. I worship God by helping out a stranded motorist on the side of the road. I also worship God when I sit still and listen like Elijah did. There is a time for all these kinds of worship but then again there are wrong times for them also. God decides what kind of worship He wants at ANY given moment. And also part of my worship of god is helping others worship Him. So within reson I try not to be a tumbling block to others.

 

[SnuP]

Unfortunately you missed my point. One of the most powerful times of worship is when most of the church is layed out on the floor. But I'm not going to allow some religious person to stop me from worshiping God just because they are distracted.

originally posted by Blackhawk
There is a time for all these kinds of worship but then again there are wrong times for them also. God decides what kind of worship He wants at ANY given moment.

originally posted by SnuP
If God set forth standards for worship in His word, and He has, then we need to follow them and not be concerned with what others think about it. Do we follow God or serve man? Worship is for God and God alone. Therefore mans imput, has no business being allowed to determine how God is worshipped. . . By telling me not to worship God in the way that He leads me so that someone else will not feel distracted, you make yourself a stumbling block in my worship.

Looks like we are saying the same thing.

I worship God based upon the vision that God gives to me. I someone who has no autority over me come to me a says that I need to stop because what I'm doing is distracting, then I'm going to direct them to spead to the one who I'm am subject, instead of bypassing the bishop's authority. I am not putting God in a box. I am saying, don't be a hinderance to me, just because the enemy has chosen to use my worship to distract you.

Don't tell me to stop being a distraction. YOU STOP BEING DISTRACTED. The responciblity is yours for your own worship. Don't make me the scapegoat because you can't get you forcus right.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Go tell King David that, remember how he put away his wives for that reason."

Big difference between then and now isn't it. Neither you or I are a king among other things. so again, don't be a cain

"1. How would getting crazy for the Lord make you sin?

2. Where does it say to praise the Lord in quietness?
"

1. paul expressly talks about being chaotic in worship and how it is unbiblical and unGodly.
2. I never said be quiet, but don't equate being loud with order either.

you need to remember that you need to not be distracting. You ARE your brothers keeper.

 

[LouisBooth]

"So those religeous individuals are allowed to hinder the true worshipers from experience God, just so that they can have a morbid song service that they have the arrogance to call a worship service? "

I don't know about you, but I'd rather error on the side of caution and avoid sin then go nuts and be sinful.


"Such things have hindered God from running his church and allowed the enemy to castrate us."

I disagree. Being orderly never hurt anyone.

"If God set forth standards for worship in His word, and He has, then we need to follow them and not be concerned with what others think about it. Do we follow God or serve man? "

Again, this is the current problem with american christianity. They have lost all sence of community (what the church really is) and that its CORPERATE worship in church, not personal worship. Half of the greatest commandment has to do with your fellow humans.

"By telling me not to worship God in the way that He leads me so that someone else will not feel distracted"

Snup, ask yourself, is it God leading you, or you leading God. If its distracting you're the one trying to put a leash on God.

 

[SoapboxFred]

I would like to add my comments to the thread in support of the view that both 'types' of 'worship' can be appropriate - at different times at the same or different gatherings.
I moved from a church that had 'praise and worship' sisnging times - but no 'silent worship and listening for a word from the Lord' time.

It was choreographed liveliness - scheduled praise - and it left me cold.

The Messianic congregation I attend now is not so structured and there is very lively dance and praise - but if the lord is calling you into quietness thats fine too and there are times when the whole meeting is quietly listening.

I guess where the difference here is - ae you talking to (praising) the Lord or are you worshipping (Listening) to Him?

Some people do one of them without the other - I like to do both according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

All the comments about praise , dance and song are true and scriptural - but unbalanced, there are other scriptures too - "be still and know that I am God' - 'Stand still and see the salvation of the Lord' and probably a lot more if I was pushed to my concordance.

The story that comes to mind most strongly though, is that of Elijah after he fled from Jezebel. The passage is 1 Kings 11-13 - there was a windstorm, an erthquake and a fire but the LORD was not in those things, then came the sound of a gentle whisper...

Most often the voice of the LORD comes when we are quiet.

My point being that these are different times - in one we are offering praise to the Lord, in the other we are listening for Him.

I have had a word from the LORD when I have been quiet while others are dancing and singing and the reason for that was I had been 'entering His gates with thankgiving in my heart and into His court's with praise' beforehand - other times I have been in quiet contemplation and heard from Him and that has lead me into praise and worship - both are required for a real relationship with Him I thnk.

The enemy loves to get these things into opposition with each other in peoples hearts and minds - then those folks are not going to be growing whichever the one is that they are having critical thoughts about the people doing them.

Is it distracting you that people are singing and dancing? why is that?

Is it annoying to you that some people prefer to be ordered and quiet?
why?

The real isssue is are you in agreement or not - because you cannot be one in the Lord if you disagree with your church family on what is the 'right' form - if there is no room for one or the other and you feel strongly about that, maybe it's time to seek the Lord about moving to a place that does give room for it.

People dance and sing and shout and clap and fall over - in accordance with the Holy Spirit - they can also be doing it in the flesh - that between
them and the Lord.

People can be worshiping quietly - or thinking about other things entirely, again thats between them and the Lord.

The important thing is the fruit, are they growing in the <ord, becoming more like Him in Love and so on - even more important - are YOU?

This is my first post here so if I have contravened anything please
be gentle

 

[shout2thelord]

Our church has times of praise and worship at the same service but you should feel free to respond in whatever way you need to, to be able to praise and worship God as if the person next to you werent there. Wen u r worshipping it feels like its just you and God and you dunno wats going on around you.

I just want to be in a place were i can worship freely.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SoapboxFred
I would like to add my comments to the thread in support of the view that both 'types' of 'worship' can be appropriate - at different times at the same or different gatherings.
I moved from a church that had 'praise and worship' sisnging times - but no 'silent worship and listening for a word from the Lord' time.

It was choreographed liveliness - scheduled praise - and it left me cold.

The Messianic congregation I attend now is not so structured and there is very lively dance and praise - but if the lord is calling you into quietness thats fine too and there are times when the whole meeting is quietly listening.

I guess where the difference here is - ae you talking to (praising) the Lord or are you worshipping (Listening) to Him?

Some people do one of them without the other - I like to do both according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

All the comments about praise , dance and song are true and scriptural - but unbalanced, there are other scriptures too - "be still and know that I am God' - 'Stand still and see the salvation of the Lord' and probably a lot more if I was pushed to my concordance.

The story that comes to mind most strongly though, is that of Elijah after he fled from Jezebel. The passage is 1 Kings 11-13 - there was a windstorm, an erthquake and a fire but the LORD was not in those things, then came the sound of a gentle whisper...

Most often the voice of the LORD comes when we are quiet.

My point being that these are different times - in one we are offering praise to the Lord, in the other we are listening for Him.

I have had a word from the LORD when I have been quiet while others are dancing and singing and the reason for that was I had been 'entering His gates with thankgiving in my heart and into His court's with praise' beforehand - other times I have been in quiet contemplation and heard from Him and that has lead me into praise and worship - both are required for a real relationship with Him I thnk.

The enemy loves to get these things into opposition with each other in peoples hearts and minds - then those folks are not going to be growing whichever the one is that they are having critical thoughts about the people doing them.

Is it distracting you that people are singing and dancing? why is that?

Is it annoying to you that some people prefer to be ordered and quiet?
why?

The real isssue is are you in agreement or not - because you cannot be one in the Lord if you disagree with your church family on what is the 'right' form - if there is no room for one or the other and you feel strongly about that, maybe it's time to seek the Lord about moving to a place that does give room for it.

People dance and sing and shout and clap and fall over - in accordance with the Holy Spirit - they can also be doing it in the flesh - that between
them and the Lord.

People can be worshiping quietly - or thinking about other things entirely, again thats between them and the Lord.

The important thing is the fruit, are they growing in the <ORD, <br YOU? are - important more even on so and Love in Him like becoming>
This is my first post here so if I have contravened anything please
be gentle

I'm in agreement with ya here!&nbsp;

As SnuP pointed out, whatever the Leader of the house deems acceptable is acceptable.&nbsp; And for those who don't like it lively, they can either change, sit in crisizim, or&nbsp;they can find another church.&nbsp; Each must do what they feel God is telling them.

One can also be sinning if God is telling them that He desires more exuberent worship from them and they are more concerned with what others think.&nbsp; That's dissobedience, no matter how noble one&nbsp;tries to make it sound.

Thanks for adding your comments and I've passed you some blessings . . .ya did'nt have any and now you do.&nbsp;

 

[SnuP]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"So those religeous individuals are allowed to hinder the true worshipers from experience God, just so that they can have a morbid song service that they have the arrogance to call a worship service? "

I don't know about you, but I'd rather error on the side of caution and avoid sin then go nuts and be sinful.

Then you are in error.&nbsp; Error in relationship.&nbsp; According to you there should never be any exuberant worship because there will always be atleast one person who is distracted by it and there is always the possability of someone coming in in the middle of the worship who will be distracted.&nbsp; Worship is a love language to God.&nbsp; What you purpose is basically telling me that I can never express my love to God in public.&nbsp; Expressions of love are usually showy.&nbsp; I can wisper to Him that I love Him, but I can not run up to Him and hug and kiss Him (someone might be offended).

"Such things have hindered God from running his church and allowed the enemy to castrate us."

I disagree. Being orderly never hurt anyone.

&nbsp;Being orderly in mans wisdom has always seperated man from God.&nbsp; This amounts to Jesus rebuking the deciples for rebuking the children.&nbsp; I say to you, suffer the children of God to come to Him.&nbsp; If you cause one of them to stumble by your ideas about order and distraction, you are in danger of hell fire.&nbsp; You make think that is harsh and uncalled for, but I am specifically tying in that scripture because there is much conviction in my heart for your sake, and I don't want you to be decieved as to my opinion on this matter. You are in danger, brother.&nbsp; You should be cautious in how your many rules affect the growth of young believers.&nbsp; In this you do err greatly.&nbsp; Christ toke away the law, but you would place us back under it just for the peace of mind of some religeous people.

"If God set forth standards for worship in His word, and He has, then we need to follow them and not be concerned with what others think about it. Do we follow God or serve man? "

Again, this is the current problem with american christianity. They have lost all sence of community (what the church really is) and that its CORPERATE worship in church, not personal worship. Half of the greatest commandment has to do with your fellow humans.

"By telling me not to worship God in the way that He leads me so that someone else will not feel distracted"

Snup, ask yourself, is it God leading you, or you leading God. If its distracting you're the one trying to put a leash on God.

you need to reread post #40.&nbsp; It address both of these issues.&nbsp; As I said, I worship by the vision that God gives to me.

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=434801#post434801

Where is the personal responcibility for ones own worship?&nbsp; It is your responcibility to keep from being distracted.&nbsp; If you are distracted, the fault is yours and no one elses.&nbsp; It is sin to point the finger and blame someone else for your lack of self control.&nbsp; There is an issue in your heart that allows this distraction to come, an issue of&nbsp;sin.&nbsp; This sin keeps you from truely expereincing God in intimicy.&nbsp; As long as you keep&nbsp;blaming others for your own lack, your worship will be hallow.&nbsp; In fact most church&nbsp;who hold on to their traditions experience this same hallowness.&nbsp; Their worship is a clanging cymbal.&nbsp; They have not allowed&nbsp;God to deal with the real issues of their lives and deliver them&nbsp;from the bondage of the law, the thing that they call doctrine, which in fact is just their traditions.&nbsp; They have become modern day pharicees.&nbsp; And someone needs to stand up and rebuke them for the children's sake.&nbsp; Before they distroy another whole generation.&nbsp;

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SnuP
Then you are in error.&nbsp; Error in relationship.&nbsp; According to you there should never be any exuberant worship because there will always be atleast one person who is distracted by it and there is always the possability of someone coming in in the middle of the worship who will be distracted.&nbsp; Worship is a love language to God.&nbsp; What you purpose is basically telling me that I can never express my love to God in public.&nbsp; Expressions of love are usually showy.&nbsp; I can wisper to Him that I love Him, but I can not run up to Him and hug and kiss Him (someone might be offended).

&nbsp;Being orderly in mans wisdom has always seperated man from God.&nbsp; This amounts to Jesus rebuking the deciples for rebuking the children.&nbsp; I say to you, suffer the children of God to come to Him.&nbsp; If you cause one of them to stumble by your ideas about order and distraction, you are in danger of hell fire.&nbsp; You make think that is harsh and uncalled for, but I am specifically tying in that scripture because there is much conviction in my heart for your sake, and I don't want you to be decieved as to my opinion on this matter. You are in danger, brother.&nbsp; You should be cautious in how your many rules affect the growth of young believers.&nbsp; In this you do err greatly.&nbsp; Christ toke away the law, but you would place us back under it just for the peace of mind of some religeous people.

you need to reread post #40.&nbsp; It address both of these issues.&nbsp; As I said, I worship by the vision that God gives to me.

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=434801#post434801

Where is the personal responcibility for ones own worship?&nbsp; It is your responcibility to keep from being distracted.&nbsp; If you are distracted, the fault is yours and no one elses.&nbsp; It is sin to point the finger and blame someone else for your lack of self control.&nbsp; There is an issue in your heart that allows this distraction to come, an issue of&nbsp;sin.&nbsp; This sin keeps you from truely expereincing God in intimicy.&nbsp; As long as you keep&nbsp;blaming others for your own lack, your worship will be hallow.&nbsp; In fact most church&nbsp;who hold on to their traditions experience this same hallowness.&nbsp; Their worship is a clanging cymbal.&nbsp; They have not allowed&nbsp;God to deal with the real issues of their lives and deliver them&nbsp;from the bondage of the law, the thing that they call doctrine, which in fact is just their traditions.&nbsp; They have become modern day pharicees.&nbsp; And someone needs to stand up and rebuke them for the children's sake.&nbsp; Before they distroy another whole generation.&nbsp;

Wow SnuP,

That was very well said.&nbsp; And to add: it could also go the opposite way.&nbsp; For those who make a lot of noise, etc, etc.

If the heart is not worshipping God and they are doing those things simply to look as if they are, God sees their heart too.&nbsp; And they are in just as much sin as the one&nbsp;who refuses to budge because of what someone else might think.

"Where the Spirit of The Lord is, there is Liberty".&nbsp; Liberty to worship as God, the house and the heart deems.&nbsp;

There is no confusion in the church I go to.&nbsp; Sometimes confused people come in but&nbsp;we cast those confusing spirits out.&nbsp; Then the people are not confused anymore.&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;

 

[SnuP]

As my pastor has said, I would rather have error then not to have liberty. It is easier to correct error then to remove bondage.