What are the TEN Commandments? - which list?

[Bob S]

1Cor7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts. Bob Ryan included that verse in post #10. If I follow Bob's advice as to what counts would I observe the 613 commands of the old covenant that was given at Sinai to the Israelite nation which I, being a Gentile, was never a part? Does the verse mean only the 10 commandments which again I being a Gentle was never a part? Could it be Jesus words in JN15:9-14 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.


What would happen if all of us would practice Jesus' command and teach it all over the World?

 

[Bob S]

"Love Me and keep My commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you Love Me - Keep My Commandments" John 14:15



Are you familiar with the term "Ten Commandments"?

Are you familiar with Matt 22 where Jesus gives the Law of Moses regarding Love for God and Love for man as the foundation of those Ten?

So Bob, you stand on the belief that 6 "but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments." is a commandment. I would admonish you to add up the commandments in Ex20. If you count them with verse 6 it appears there were really 11 commands. Pease explain.

 

[DamianWarS]

BobRyan said:
the objective unbaised readers "Get the point" the moment they read the list.

Right... Didn't you know there are more objective unbiased readers who get my point quicker?

 

[DamianWarS]

I agree with Christ that salvation is of the Jews

You are conflating this with law. We know salvation is from Christ. Christ himself says he is the only way. Scripture is entrusted to the Jews and convenants are made with the Jews. These covenants and laws all point to Christ the Messiah of the Jews and a Jew himself. Israel is a light to the nation's (Isaiah 42:6) because the glory of God become evident when foreigners passed through echoing a message that is ultimately of Christ. Israel today continues to be that light but not the physical Israel but the spiritual Israel. This message predates the Jews so salvation of the Jews is a conditional statement not a statement to affirm keeping the letter of the law which you seem to use it for.

 

[BobRyan]

So Bob, you stand on the belief that 6 "but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments." is a commandment.

A lot of us call that the ending of the 3rd commandment in that set of TEN.

I would admonish you to add up the commandments in Ex20.

Been there done that --
Bible scholars in all Christian denominations come to that same number - ten.

 

[BobRyan]

1Cor7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

Indeed - a clear contrast between the ceremonial law and the moral law of God.

The Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 notes this same distinction that Paul points out in 1 Cor 7.

Bob Ryan included that verse in post #10.

Thanks for noticing.

If I follow Bob's advice as to what counts would I observe the 613 commands

613 in the OT and 10504 commands in the NT.

1,050 New Testament Commands - Eternal Evangelism

There are 1,050 commands in the New Testament for Christians to obey. Due to repetitions we can classify them under 69 headings. They cover every phase of

eternalevangelism.com

Did you place some "limit" on God? On scripture?

Is that your system of interpretation/acceptance??

of the old covenant that was given at Sinai to the Israelite nation

Read the NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-34 given to Israel and the house of Judah -- also stated in Heb 8:6-12.

IT has that same unit of TEN - known to Jeremiah and his readers as included in "The LAW of God"
No wonder Paul points to it in Eph 6:2.
No wonder James points to it in James 2.
No wonder Christ points to it in Matt 19 with the rich young ruler.

which I, being a Gentile, was never a part?

IT is made "for mankind" according to Christ in Mark 2:27 are you not a member of that group Bob?
Gentiles are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Is 56:6-7
ALL Mankind is in Gen 2:1-3 when Sabbath was sanctified and made for holy use.
ALL mankind is keeping the Sabbath in the New earth for all eternity after the cross Is 66:23
Gentiles specifically ask for more Gospel preaching to be scheduled for "NEXT Sabbath" in Acts 13.

What would happen if all of us would practice Jesus' command and teach it all over the World?

More people would read their Bibles and pay attention to the details I just listed.

They might even read "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
They would read "LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
THey would read "IF you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
They would see that "saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
They would know that "THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3


Where as Paul said "the first commandment with a promise is 'Honor your father and mother'" in that still-valid unit of TEN.

 

[Bob S]

Bob Ryan said:

Indeed - a clear contrast between the ceremonial law and the moral law of God.

Like the weekly ceremonial Sabbath is a clear contrast between the ceremonial law and the laws dealing with morality.

Bob Ryan said:

The Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 notes this same distinction that Paul points out in 1 Cor 7.

Still using words from the Babylonian churches to try to make a point, I see.

Bob Ryan said:

613 in the OT and 10504 commands in the NT.

1,050 New Testament Commands - Eternal Evangelism

There are 1,050 commands in the New Testament for Christians to obey. Due to repetitions we can classify them under 69 headings. They cover every phase of

eternalevangelism.com

Of which 613 were the words of the defunct Sinai covenant. The greatest command ever given is one of the 10504 found in the new covenant, Jn15:9-14. The one you never mention and the one that is so valuable for all of mankind to know.

Bob Ryan said:

Did you place some "limit" on God? On scripture?

Not that I know.

Bob Ryan said:

Is that your system of interpretation/acceptance??

By now you should know I do not interpret scripture. I know you think doing so is acceptable.

Bob Ryan said:

Read the NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-34 given to Israel and the house of Judah -- also stated in Heb 8:6-12.

If it were the same as you interpret it to be then it certainly is not new now, is it?

Bob Ryan said:

IT has that same unit of TEN - known to Jeremiah and his readers as included in "The LAW of God"

Really? Does scripture tell us that or is it just some more of your interpretation?

Bob Ryan said:

No wonder Paul points to it in Eph 6:2.

Glad you brought Eph up Bob. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. Eph2:14-15. Case closed.

Bob Ryan said:

No wonder James points to it in James 2.

James is pointing to Jesus' command to love others as He loves us.

Bob Ryan said:

No wonder Christ points to it in Matt 19 with the rich young ruler.

It is my understanding that Jesus was under the Laws of the Sinai covenant. It was still in effect and didn't end until Jesus death where Jesus ratified the new and better covenant with His own blood.

Bob Ryan said:

IT is made "for mankind" according to Christ in Mark 2:27 are you not a member of that group Bob?

Yes, that is what you keep telling us, but why if God made it for the remainder of the World why didn't He tell them like He did Israel? Why did He only demand Israel to keep it? It is my understanding that He gave it to Israel to remind them of His releasing their bondage in Egypt. Deut5: 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Bob Ryan said:

Gentiles are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Is 56:6-7

That was an offer and not a command. Even you should realize that.

Bob Ryan said:

ALL Mankind is in Gen 2:1-3 when Sabbath was sanctified and made for holy use.

Strickly your interpretation of the event. Find us any evidence of anyone observing it until Israels fourth week of their escape from Egypt.

Bob Ryan said:

ALL mankind is keeping the Sabbath in the New earth for all eternity after the cross Is 66:23

"after the cross"???? Another figment of your imagination. How about sticking to the now and not to the future.

Bob Ryan said:

Gentiles specifically ask for more Gospel preaching to be scheduled for "NEXT Sabbath" in Acts 13.

Absolutely no indication that Gentiles were "keeping" the Sabbath.

Bob Ryan said:

More people would read their Bibles and pay attention to the details I just listed.

That is a big HA!!

Bob Ryan said:

They might even read "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
They would read "LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
THey would read "IF you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
They would see that "saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
They would know that "THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3

Is Jesus God? Jesus' command for us is found in Jn15:9-14 . We are to love others as Jesus loves us.

Bob Ryan said:

Where as Paul said "the first commandment with a promise is 'Honor your father and mother'" in that still-valid unit of TEN.

That is covered if we love others as Jesus loves us.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan said:

Like the weekly ceremonial Sabbath is a clear contrast between the ceremonial law and the laws dealing with morality.

No such contrast - no such text. We would need to read "you" as scripture for that.

I am sure you know we don't do that.

Bob Ryan said:

Of which 613 were the words of the defunct Sinai covenant. The greatest command ever given is one of the 10504 found in the new covenant, Jn15:9-14.

But is not listed in Christ's words in Matt 19 where He says "Keep the Commandments" and is asked "which ones".

Nor does any NT writer quote John 15 they keep quoting Lev 19:18 instead read Rom 13, Read James 2 - because Lev 19:18 (that they keep quoting) makes the same point.

 

[BobRyan]

They might even read "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
They would read "LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
THey would read "IF you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
They would see that "saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
They would know that "THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3

Is Jesus God?

He is indeed - listen to what He said

John 12:49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

Paul says it is JESUS speaking at sinai - Heb 8:6-12

Jesus' command for us is found in Jn15:9-14 . We are to love others as Jesus loves us.

Same as Lev 19:18 which Paul and all the NT writers quote even after the time of Christ. It makes the same point.

 

[Bob S]

Bob Ryan wrote:

They might even read "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
They would read "LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
THey would read "IF you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
They would see that "saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
They would know that "THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3

He is indeed - listen to what He said

Jn15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.


Bob Ryan wrote:

Paul says it is JESUS speaking at sinai - Heb 8:6-12

So??

Bob Ryan wrote:

Same as Lev 19:18 which Paul and all the NT writers quote even after the time of Christ. It makes the same point.

Then if you are correct then Jesus didn't tell the truth because He said in Jn 13 that His command was new.
John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Find that in the Old Testament. It seems that you must have been out to lunch when that was taught, but it is never too late to learn new and exciting facts.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan wrote:

Jn15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

A good example of what no other NT writer quotes - but they do quote Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" as we see in Rom 13 and James 2 as does Christ in Matt 22 and in Matt 19.

So it is a pretty good "sign" that Christ was not deleting Lev 19:18 nor was He deleting Ex 20:7 "do not take God's name in vain".

And so it is no wonder that almost all Christian denominations on Earth affirm the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today

(Just stating the obvious)