What are the TEN Commandments? - which list?

[BobRyan]

The TEN commandments are listed in Exodus 20 at Sinai where God speaks directly to Israel.

That is the easy answer.

But there is a list of God's commands in Ex 34:12-27
And 40 years after Sinai - there is a rephrasing of the TEN commandments in Deut 5.

So when we speak of the TEN Commandments - which list is it??

Answer:

Deut 5:22-23 tells us that it is the ones that were spoken by God at Sinai directly to the people right out of the cloud. Which is only true in Ex 20

Deut 5:22 – And He added no more

22 “These words the Lord spoke to your whole assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, from the cloud, and from the thick darkness, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me. 23 And when you heard the voice from the midst of the darkness, while the mountain was burning with fire, you approached me, all the heads of your tribes and your elders. 24 You said, ‘Behold, the Lord our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we have seen today that God speaks with mankind, yet he lives.

That sequence of events only happens in Ex 20. It did not happen 3 times.

I hope this helps whenever someone skims past those details and ends up with 3 ten commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

So when we see all these groups affirming The TEN -- we are not too surprised that they are all talking about Ex 20 and its TEN.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy

 

[Bob S]

Interesting history Bob. It is interesting that there is not one word in the ten commandments about Love. God gave Israel a new and better covenant with Love as the main theme at Calvary. Jesus extended the covenant to include all mankind, so we really need to focus on the new covenant's greatest commandment ever given. Jn15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

If all mankind headed Jesus' command there would be no strife among nations and neighbors. Gal5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

1Jn3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

 

[Freth]

It is interesting that there is not one word in the ten commandments about Love.

Love is in the middle of the commandments to love God.

Exodus 20:1-3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Note that this is the equivalent of what Jesus said during His ministry.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[HIM]

Love is in the middle of the commandments to love God.

Exodus 20:1-3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Note that this is the equivalent of what Jesus said during His ministry.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Sadly this is not the first time shown. Sad indeed.

 

[HIM]

So when we see all these groups affirming The TEN -- we are not too surprised that they are all talking about Ex 20 and its TEN.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy

The turn of the last century was a major downfall for Christianity as a whole. The Ten where never a question prior to the 1900's. The day the Sabbath was to be kept was an issue but never the ten as we industrialized and life got easier.

 

[HIM]

Interesting history Bob. It is interesting that there is not one word in the ten commandments about Love. God gave Israel a new and better covenant with Love as the main theme at Calvary. Jesus extended the covenant to include all mankind, so we really need to focus on the new covenant's greatest commandment ever given. Jn15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

If all mankind headed Jesus' command there would be no strife among nations and neighbors. Gal5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

1Jn3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Deut. 29 and 30 would be a good read

 

[Bob S]

Love is in the middle of the commandments to love God.

Exodus 20:1-3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Note that this is the equivalent of what Jesus said during His ministry.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:26 is not one of the 10 commandments Freth. There is not one command in the 10 to love, they are all about duty. The Israelites were to keep the 10 because they loved God, just as we are to keep the Royal law of Love because we love God.

Jn14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. Jn15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

As to the10 commandments, Paul tells us what happened to them in 2Cor3: 6
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Transitory means temporary. The 10 commandments were temporary until the new covenant was ratified by Jesu blood at Calvary.

 

[BobRyan]

Interesting history Bob. It is interesting that there is not one word in the ten commandments about Love.

Jesus said those who skim over the Bible details in the TEN.. in the "Law and the prophets" too quickly - MISS the fact that it is all an expression of Love to God and Love for our neighbor.

Matt 22:
34 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him: 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, (Deut 6:5) and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 Upon these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” (NASB 1955)

James 2 tells us point blank - it is the law of Liberty (even though the word "Liberty" does not show up in the TEN)

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.


James 2 says Lev 19:18 is part of the "Royal Law" even though "Royal" and "Law" do not show up in Lev 19:18

======================
This is the easy part. I don't see any Bible scholars denying it.

 

[BobRyan]

Exodus 20:26 is not one of the 10 commandments Freth. There is not one command in the 10 to love, they are all about duty. The Israelites were to keep the 10 because they loved God, just as we are to keep the Royal law of Love because we love God.

Jn14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. Jn15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Jesus said "KEEP The Commandments" in Matt 19 and is immediately asked "WHICH ONES".

Hint: He does not quote "Love each other as I have loved you" -- He just quotes from the LAW of Moses in Matt 19.

Lev 19:18 already said "Love your neighbor as yourself" and in Rom 13 Paul reminds us that that is STILL what we follow just as Jesus upholds it in Matt 22 along with Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" from that SAME Law of Moses

.Jesus said that His mission was not "To DELETE COMMANDMENTS" in Matt 5.

Rom 3:31 Paul asks "Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
WHERE - the "First commandment with a promise is - HONOR your father and Mother" Eph 6:2

Without any mention of it having been deleted by John 15:12

 

[BobRyan]

As to the10 commandments, Paul tells us what happened to them in 2Cor3: 6
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Because under the NEW Covenant the LAW is written on the heart -- read the NEW Covenent

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord:
“I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; (New Birth, New heart, Born again)
and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. (Adoption)
34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, (Taught by God)
“for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.” (forgiveness of sin)

No wonder that OT - New Covenant is the one and only GOSPEL covenant.
It is the working of the HOLY Spirit that WRITES that LAW on the heart

Rom 2:
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
..
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Heb 8:6-12 Paul reminds us that the NEW Covenant is UNCHANGED from its Jer 31 form.

No wonder that even in the NEW Testament "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
No wonder the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 EVEN in the New Testament

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Amen - the Law external on stone for the one reading vs the Law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant for the one that is born again by the Holy Spirit.

Not a single word in that text saying that the LAW of God is temporary or that taking God's name in vain is now an ok thing to do. I think we can all see that.

 

[DamianWarS]

So when we see all these groups affirming The TEN -- we are not too surprised that they are all talking about Ex 20 and its TEN.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy

you forget to add to your list
[*]Judaism

in truth, your list is a ruse or more technically a false equivalency fallacy since by their own creed these groups define the 4th commandment in what you would consider heretical so you cannot claim they stand with you. What did Jesus say? "every city or house divided against itself shall not stand". you've built a house in direct conflict with your own position but present it like a mic drop arugment. that argument is built on division, and like a divided house, it too cannot stand. (I certainly won't stand for it)

Judaism however is still on your side.

 

[BobRyan]

you forget to add to your list
[*]Judaism

No doubt some non-Christian groups can be found that also affirm the glaringly obvious fact about God's TEN Commandments (Particularly given Deut 5:22-23'

Your post shows your true statement is not "ADD To the LIST - Judaism" but rather "DELETE that LIST and just list Judaism". Which of course every example in that list would object to rather strongly.

in truth, your list is a ruse or more technically a false equivalency fallacy

a false accusation to be sure.

since by their own creed these groups define the 4th commandment in what you would consider heretical

My statement does not select out the 4th commandment as "not true" and neither do the groups I keep referencing. I think we both know that is irrefutable.

In every case it is "The TEN" -- for the groups I reference and not "no, no, just the NINE" -- I think we both know that is irrefutable.I think we both know that is irrefutable.

so you cannot claim they stand with you.

I just stated it "again" and show that it is exactly what I mean.

What did Jesus say? "every city or house divided against itself shall not stand". you've built a house in direct conflict with your own position but present it like a mic drop arugment.

false hope on your part.

In John 4 Jesus tells the Samaratin woman "Salvation is OF THE JEWS" -- your complaints above would make Jesus a liar since He also had "some differences" with the Jews . Yet His statement remained true NO MATTER those differences.

This is where your house-of-cards suggestion seem to struggle.

But maybe you wish to re-imagine for us that those Christian affirmations of THE TEN do not exist and that it is only the Jews that still exist. No matter you have free will you can suggest as you wish.

 

[DamianWarS]

Your post shows your true statement is not "ADD To the LIST - Judaism" but rather "DELETE that LIST and just list Judaism". Which of course every example in that list would object to rather strongly.

The fact that your list objects with Judaism regarding their view of the 10 commandments and Judaism agrees with your position should indeed be a problem. For the same reasons that list would also object to your views of the 4th commandment too. In the end, your list is divided against you, and the only one left standing with you is Judaism. I didn't erase or add these things, I'm merely pointing out what logic points to.

My statement does not select out the 4th commandment as "not true" and neither do the groups I keep referencing. I think we both know that is irrefutable.

yet you do not agree with those groups regarding the 4th commandment... and they do not agree with your views.

In John 4 Jesus tells the Samaratin woman "Salvation is OF THE JEWS" -- your complaints above would make Jesus a liar since He also had "some differences" with the Jews . Yet His statement remained true NO MATTER those differences.

and where is this Jewish/Christian house now?

 

[BobRyan]

The fact that your list objects with Judaism regarding their view of the 10 commandments

The fact that the many Christian groups affirming all TEN of the Ten commandments exists - is the real problem that you are facing.
The fact that they themselves object to your own characterization of them - is another problem with your suggestion.

So are you simply arguing for a down-sized-ten-to-nine or a "deleted ten"?.

Either way - this thread is about the TEN and WHICH list is the one applicable to the NEW Covenant spoken by Jeremiah to his readers in Jer 31:31-34. You seem to agree that it is the actual Ex 20 list of TEN but then complain that those Christian groups that affirm ALL TEN are not doing it right.

and Judaism agrees with your position

As do the 100's of other Christian Bible Sabbath keeping groups.

should indeed be a problem.

Not logically.

For the same reasons that list would also object to your views

As Jesus said in John 4 (and as you are skimming over this detail already mentioned) "Salvation is of the JEWS" that is Christ's New Testament teaching.

Even though there were differences and objections by the Jews - against Christ. This destroys your entire argument for ignoring all those Christian groups that affirm the TEN!!!

Another inconvenient detail you are skimming over. Yet you apparently agree with the OP that the Commandments included in the NEW Covenant of Jer 31 are the Exodus 20 TEN.

 

[DamianWarS]

As do the 100's of other Christian Bible Sabbath keeping groups.

Yet you choose not to use those in your list

Not logically.

Indeed, logically

As Jesus said in John 4 (and as you are skimming over this detail already mentioned) "Salvation is of the JEWS" that is Christ's New Testament teaching.

Even though there were differences and objections by the Jews - against Christ. This destroys your entire argument for ignoring all those Christian groups that affirm the TEN!!!

So I'm confused? Do you agree with Judaism or not? My protest also is not your conclusion, it is how you support your conclusions.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
As do the 100's of other Christian Bible Sabbath keeping groups

Yet you choose not to use those in your list

Indeed I did not include the denomination I am affiliated with in that list as well.
Still - the objective unbaised readers "Get the point" the moment they read the list.

 

[Bob S]

Sadly this is not the first time shown. Sad indeed.

What is really sad, indeed, is the fact that some people cannot tell the difference between a statement and a command. Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Please, if I am so stupid as to not recognize after being shown many times, that Love is one of the commands, show us how Ex20:6 is a command? If you are able then they are not the 10 commandments, they are the 11 commandments. Yes, it is very sad that some are so engrossed in their own belief systems that they cannot allow themselves to see any new real truth.

 

[BobRyan]

For the same reasons that list would also object to your views

As Jesus said in John 4 (and as you are skimming over this detail already mentioned) "Salvation is of the JEWS" that is Christ's New Testament teaching.

Even though there were differences and objections by the Jews - against Christ. This destroys your entire argument for ignoring all those Christian groups that affirm the TEN!!!

Another inconvenient detail you are skimming over. Yet you apparently agree with the OP that the Commandments included in the NEW Covenant of Jer 31 are the Exodus 20 TEN.

So I'm confused?

That may be so but the point above is very clear -- Jesus could affirm that "Salvation is of the Jews" in John 4 while speaking with the woman at the well who was arguing "religion" with him between the view of Samaritans vs the view of the Jews. NO MATTER that the Jewish leaders rejected Christ as the Messiah. Jesus STILL maintains that the Jews are the ones through whom the Messiah would come and the Jews also admit that fact.

Having some points of difference did not DELETE ALL truth that they held -- obviously (Incredibly obvious).

Paul makes this same point in 1 Cor 8.

But as repeatedly noted in my posts - this Bible detail is very "inconvenient" to the suggestion you keep making here claiming that if there are any points of difference then no point of truth held in common between groups should be admitted.

Do you agree with Judaism or not?

I agree with Christ that salvation is of the Jews and I agree with the 100's of groups that affirm the Bible Sabbath that it is not at all edited deleted dropped.

and I agree with the groups I keep listing that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the Law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant - applicable to all mankind.

None of which you hold to in your own POV - but that simply shows how/where we differ.

 

[BobRyan]

What is really sad, indeed, is the fact that some people cannot tell the difference between a statement and a command. Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

"Love Me and keep My commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you Love Me - Keep My Commandments" John 14:15

Please, if I am so stupid as to not recognize after being shown many times, that Love is one of the commands, show us how Ex20:6 is a command?

Are you familiar with the term "Ten Commandments"?

Are you familiar with Matt 22 where Jesus gives the Law of Moses regarding Love for God and Love for man as the foundation of those Ten?