What are the root causes of abortion?

[JesusWalks78]

As already noted, and which should be obvious, abstinence programs and actual abstinence are two very different things.

And such programs only seek to misinform kids about the reality of BC and basicaly amount to nothing other than, "Don't have sex before marriage, and if you do, here's some nasty photos of what will happen to you if you don't do as we say."

They don't inform kids on how to go about having sex and minimize the chance of std, or pregnancy. And by that, such programs ultimately create a higher demand for abortions.

So then they arent really part of the prgrogram are they.

What about the parents, isnt it their duty to educate children on sex? Or have they all goitten lazy and expectthe Government to do so?

 

[TheBellman]

So then they arent really part of the prgrogram are they.

They're 'educated' by the program.

What about the parents, isnt it their duty to educate children on sex? Or have they all goitten lazy and expectthe Government to do so?

For various reasons, including religious beliefs, lots of parents don't educate children properly about sex, or educate them with 'abstinence-only'. Because of that, the governement needs to properly educate children for their own protection.

 

[MJ421]

So then they arent really part of the prgrogram are they.

Of course they are. The program is a class that all the kids in the school take.

What about the parents, isnt it their duty to educate children on sex? Or have they all goitten lazy and expectthe Government to do so?

Of course it is. But many don't. They're squeamish about sex, they ignore it like they would a serial killer uncle. Then many other don't even know the fact themselves. And also the parents who's religious agenda is more important than their child's health.

Fact is, it's a public safety issue as much as anything. There should be an avenue that kids can learn the truth, outside the ignorance of their parents. A way that they can dispell all the myths about pregnancy and disease.

 

[cataclysm]

For various reasons, including religious beliefs, lots of parents don't educate children properly about sex, or educate them with 'abstinence-only'. Because of that, the governement needs to properly educate children for their own protection.

Smacks of Big Brother to me.

The children need to be properly educated by the parents for their own protection (from the government).

Of course it is. But many don't. They're squeamish about sex, they ignore it like they would a serial killer uncle.

Dated pre-sexual revolution argument.

Then many other don't even know the fact themselves.

Ummmm...they're parents.

And also the parents who's religious agenda is more important than their child's health.

(slap) Name a such a parent. Name one. Just one.

Fact is, it's a public safety issue as much as anything. There should be an avenue that kids can learn the truth, outside the ignorance of their parents.

And you think the failing public school educational system is answer to "ignorance"?

 

[TheBellman]

Smacks of Big Brother to me.

Education is big brother-ish to you? Wow.

The children need to be properly educated by the parents for their own protection (from the government).

In some areas they quite possibly do. However, when they are not taught essential facts by their parents, the government needs to teach them those facts for their own protection.

Dated pre-sexual revolution argument.

You think there aren't parents who are embarassed to talk to their children about sex? Are you serious?

Ummmm...they're parents.

Which doesn't mean that they know all that is needed to instruct their children on such aspects as contraception, STD prevention, and so forth.

Name a such a parent. Name one. Just one.

Are you seriously saying you don't believe there are parents who, for religious reasons, don't teach their children the details of various methods of contraception and STD prevention?

And you think the failing public school educational system is answer to "ignorance"?

Education is the answer to ignorance. To whatever extent the public school system is failing in educating, it needs to be fixed, not abandoned.

 

[MJ421]

Smacks of Big Brother to me.

In an ideal world, we wouldn't need such programs, especially at the federal level. That's bad. It should be done by the states. And yea, you'll have stupid states, but you'll have smart ones, and they won't be blackmailed with federal dollars into bad lessons.

The children need to be properly educated by the parents for their own protection (from the government).

There are exceptions.

Dated pre-sexual revolution argument.

Then why the millions of dollars of add time to get parents to talk to teens?

Ummmm...they're parents.

And some of them are stupid. Would you want Brittney Spears giving your children sex ed advice?

(slap) Name a such a parent. Name one. Just one.

There are several here, but I think it's against forum rules to name names. It's not like I seek to associate with idiots in real life.

And you think the failing public school educational system is answer to "ignorance"?

With reform, it'll help. Right now, more bad than good is being done. That's what's sad.

 

[cataclysm]

Education is big brother-ish to you? Wow.

What's the problem, is that too much of a cliche for you?

Kind of like "We need more sex education in public schools".

In some areas they quite possibly do. However, when they are not taught essential facts by their parents, the government needs to teach them those facts for their own protection.

Well, fine, then don't expect results.

You think there aren't parents who are embarassed to talk to their children about sex? Are you serious?

Never said that, now did I?

Which doesn't mean that they know all that is needed to instruct their children on such aspects as contraception, STD prevention, and so forth.

Public schools don't either.....

Are you seriously saying you don't believe there are parents who, for religious reasons, don't teach their children the details of various methods of contraception and STD prevention?

No, what I'm saying is that no sane parent puts religion over the health of their child.

Education is the answer to ignorance. To whatever extent the public school system is failing in educating, it needs to be fixed, not abandoned.

How 'bout "reformed"? MJ just said it, good luck with your "stomp out stupidity" crusade.

In an ideal world, we wouldn't need such programs, especially at the federal level. That's bad. It should be done by the states. And yea, you'll have stupid states, but you'll have smart ones, and they won't be blackmailed with federal dollars into bad lessons.

Localize it, yep.

There are exceptions.

to every rule. Public education has to have the rule, though....

Then why the millions of dollars of add time to get parents to talk to teens?

To make the people behind the ads feel as though they're doing something about a social problem.

And some of them are stupid. Would you want Brittney Spears giving your children sex ed advice?

She does, pop culture.

There are several here, but I think it's against forum rules to name names. It's not like I seek to associate with idiots in real life.

Okay. But I can't buy the argument poor parenting is responsible for abortions, personal responsibility should be taught.

With reform, it'll help. Right now, more bad than good is being done. That's what's sad.

Yes, they're failing, with society.

 

[TheBellman]

What's the problem, is that too much of a cliche for you?

It's got nothing to do with it being a cliche - I just find it surprising that anyone would say they find eduction big brotherish.

Well, fine, then don't expect results.

Why not?

Never said that, now did I?

It was implied by your dismissal of the point as a "Dated pre-sexual revolution argument.". It's either valid or it's not; if it is, it doesn't matter that it's dated and pre-sexual revolution.

Public schools don't either.....

Public schools don't know anything. Teachers do. No doubt some know enough to teach the subject correctly and some don't. Those that don't, and are required to, should get further education.

No, what I'm saying is that no sane parent puts religion over the health of their child.

Tell that to the Jehovah's Witnesses who would, if they could, withhold life-saving blood transfusions from their children. Tell that to the fundamentalist Christians who refuse to teach their children anything about contraception.

How 'bout "reformed"?

Fixed, reformed...whatever. Repaired. Want to play at semantics?

MJ just said it, good luck with your "stomp out stupidity" crusade.

I don't have one. By the same token, I don't view education as 'big brother'.

Okay. But I can't buy the argument poor parenting is responsible for abortions, personal responsibility should be taught.

Nobody said poor parenting is responsible for abortions. It does, however, play a role. A role which could be removed by correctly educating children.

Yes, they're failing, with society.

So people have been saying since Plato's time. Yet, amazingly, we're still here.

 

[morningstar2651]

...and their cause's cause, etc.

• Unwanted pregnancy
  • Rape
  • Unsafe sex
    • Inadequate sex education
    • Irresponsibility
  • Failed contraception
  • • Incorrectly used contraception
      • Inadequate sex education
      • Accident
    • Defective contraception

 

[cataclysm]

"Unwanted pregnancy" = pro-choicer's euphemism.

It's got nothing to do with it being a cliche - I just find it surprising that anyone would say they find eduction big brotherish.

Well, I would too, if what that person found paternalistic, bureaucratic, and inefficient had been referred to as "education".

Public education, aka "government-run schools".

Why not?

The past is the best predictor of the future.

It was implied by your dismissal of the point as a "Dated pre-sexual revolution argument.". It's either valid or it's not; if it is, it doesn't matter that it's dated and pre-sexual revolution.

So you want it qualified? Okay, your idea of sex ed in public schools was implemented decades ago, and just worsened the problem.

Today's parents are deep into the second-generation of sexual liberation.

Public schools don't know anything. Teachers do. No doubt some know enough to teach the subject correctly and some don't. Those that don't, and are required to, should get further education.

Good, the fire every other administrator, they just get in the way.

Tell that to the Jehovah's Witnesses who would, if they could, withhold life-saving blood transfusions from their children.

But they can't. I thought those were the Chrisitan Scientists that were into the faith-healing thing, that Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on doors instead.

Tell that to the fundamentalist Christians who refuse to teach their children anything about contraception.

Those kids aren't in public schools now.

Fixed, reformed...whatever. Repaired. Want to play at semantics?

Pilot programs. Vouchers (okay, for just public schools).

I don't have one. By the same token, I don't view education as 'big brother'.

The attitude...schools can, parents can't...schools will, parents won't....schools care, parents don't...

Nobody said poor parenting is responsible for abortions. It does, however, play a role. A role which could be removed by correctly educating children.

Depends on what you mean by "correctly".

So people have been saying since Plato's time. Yet, amazingly, we're still here.

I said the public school system was failing, not that society was doomed.

 

[Robinsegg]

Actually, many parents have entirely abandoned their roles as primary educators of their children to the public school system. Whether we hire out (send our kids to school) our children's education or not, we as parents are ultimately accountable for their success or failure to access the information needed. Many parents refuse to see this. The one cry from teachers across this country is for more parental involvement.

Rachel

 

[TheBellman]

The attitude...schools can, parents can't...schools will, parents won't....schools care, parents don't...

Strawman. That's nobody's attitude. Try "parents aren't, so schools must".

 

[RavenPoe]

If I could educate ALL the parents so I could rest easy that all children were well educated, I would.

Many Jehovah's Witnesses sincerely believe that it is a gross sin to accept a blood transfusion, since the Bible states that we must "abstain from blood." (Acts 15:29)

I have less and less faith in parents as time goes on. I work in a store where many families visit and we provide video games and TV for the kids. Not a week goes by that we don't have to escort a scared or crying child to find their parents in our 50,000+ sq ft showroom because they just left them there alone - we're talking 5yo and sometimes younger - and wandered off. I think we had an instance where a parent actually DROVE OFF without their kid. I was actually in the store when one parent DROVE OVER thier child's leg because they just couldn't wait until the kid was in the car to get moving.

But specifically we're talking about sex education, and I've talked to several people in their teens and early 20s and am SHOCKED at the high percentage of people who have unprotected sex and/or are misinformed on sexual subjects. I feel so strongly about sex ed that I even wrote articles and answered questions for a sex ed website at one time.

I do believe that misinformation and ignorance in sex ed in schools is a large reason for abortions today. Whether parents are unable or unwilling to have sex ed with their kids, or if they think they don't have to because school does; both are reasons to improve sex ed in schools.

 

[meebs]

sexual exploitation of women, failing contraception, Poverty

and other:

This could be: Lack of SexEd leading to pregnancy, Feeling its not the right time to have a kid, Not wanting a kid, Possible complications to mother and/or child, Severly disabled child, result of rape (and so the mother doesnt want it)....

Important is Education.

1 - To educate boys and girls about the importance of contraception.
2 - To educate boys NOT to rape.
3 - Improve overall education to help kids get jobs so they dont fall into poverty.
4 - educate kids that the more you sleep around, the higher chance of getting pregenant (and getting STDs).

the list could go on, and IMHO, banning abortion would make things worse, also not funding Sex Ed. You can tell teenagers not to sleep around, but its likely that some will and should be aware of Contraception etc.

 

[Everlasting33]

Those are good root causes but I think most women who abort their babies are inconvienced.

 

[JesusWalks78]

Of course they are. The program is a class that all the kids in the school take.

Its like being in the softball team...and not playing softball.

The program only works if people follow it....you can only give people information, what they do with it is their problem.

Of course it is. But many don't. They're squeamish about sex, they ignore it like they would a serial killer uncle. Then many other don't even know the fact themselves. And also the parents who's religious agenda is more important than their child's health.

It is the parents responsibilities.

Fact is, it's a public safety issue as much as anything.

Are you saying that what goes on in the bedroom of some should be a public issue?

There should be an avenue that kids can learn the truth, outside the ignorance of their parents.

Are you suggesting that followingthe program can lead topregnancy? Thats the only way I can see it noit being the truth.

A way that they can dispell all the myths about pregnancy and disease.

Does the abstinance only program teach them these myths?

 

[JesusWalks78]

They're 'educated' by the program.

In the day of the internet...I dont see why they cant get their info from there.

For various reasons, including religious beliefs, lots of parents don't educate children properly about sex, or educate them with 'abstinence-only'. Because of that, the governement needs to properly educate children for their own protection.

So the Government should control what goes on in families?

 

[RavenPoe]

IDoes the abstinance only program teach them these myths?

Yes they do....

“At the least, the chances of getting pregnant with a condom are 1 out of 6.”

Me, My World, My Future , Revised HIV material, p. 257

When used consistently and correctly, condoms are 98 percent effective in preventing pregnancy.

Condoms provide no proven reduction in protection against Chlamydia, the most common bacterial STD.”

Choosing the Best PATH , Leader Guide, p. 18

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), when used consistently and correctly, condoms reduce the risk of STDs, including Chlamydia.

“AIDS can be transmitted by skin-to-skin contact.”

Reasonable Reasons to Wait, Teacher's Guide, Unit 5, p. 19

In truth, HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, can be transmitted only through direct exchange of bodily fluids such as blood, sperm, vaginal secretions, or breast milk.

“That means the virus [HIV] may be in your body a long time (from a few months to as long as 10 years or more) before it can be detected, either by a test or by physical symptoms.”

Sex Respect, Student Workbook , p. 60

In truth, 97% of HIV cases are detectable by a test within three months of infection. 3 The CDC Hotline confirms that HIV cannot live in one's body undetectable for 10 years or longer.

This is just the tip of the iceberg - more at www.nonewmoney.org

 

[hairettic]

I think each case can have it's own root cause. One that maybe hasn't come up yet is Shame. There are alot of people that have the abortion so they need not face their consequences. I would say most Christians who have abortions have that as their biggest battle.

Next i would vote for Social Conditioning....

 

[Robinsegg]

I can understand your argument for Shame being a root cause. However, that goes back to "not taking responsibility for one's actions", imo. That means that the person has not chosen to be responsible and "own up" to what she's done. That is something taught by modern culture, but hopefully not by churches or parents.

Rachel