What are the requirements for a person to get to heaven?

[doubtingmerle]

Now if you want to break down the belief component of faith, we can talk about what specific things one should belief. To that, I'd say that the Biblical message of the Gospel should be believed. Anything that attempts to modify it should be thrown out. For instance, your belief that God would not throw anyone into Hell runs into direct conflict with what the Bible teaches, which is that all of us are by default heading on a path to Hell and that Christ is the only escape.

OK, so you say I must believe, "the Biblical message of the Gospel," and part of that message is that many are thrown into hell, so I must believe that many go to hell if I want to go to heaven.

I cannot understand why God would say that, since I trust him to deliver all from hell, he will then send me to hell because I trusted him to deliver everybody. But if I trust him to deliver just me and a select few, he could accept that. That all seems very odd to me.

 

[steve_bakr]

OK, so you say I must believe, "the Biblical message of the Gospel," and part of that message is that many are thrown into hell, so I must believe that many go to hell if I want to go to heaven.

I cannot understand why God would say that, since I trust him to deliver all from hell, he will then send me to hell because I trusted him to deliver everybody. But if I trust him to deliver just me and a select few, he could accept that. That all seems very odd to me.

God's grace is available to everyone. Have you heard of Karl Rahner's theory on implicit Christianity?

 

[doubtingmerle]

God's grace is available to everyone. Have you heard of Karl Rahner's theory on implicit Christianity?

I hadn't heard of Rahner, but thanks for sharing. I did a quick search and found:

We prefer the terminology according to which that man is called an ‘anonymous Christian’ who on the one hand has de facto accepted of his freedom this gracious self-offering on God’s part through faith, hope, and love, while on the other he is absolutely not yet a Christian at the social level (through baptism and membership of the Church) or in the sense of having consciously objectified his Christianity to himself in his own mind (by explicit Christian faith resulting from having hearkened to the explicit Christian message) We might therefore put it as follows: the ‘anonymous Christian’ in our sense of the term is the pagan after the beginning of the Christian mission, who lives in the state of Christ’s grace through faith, hope and love, yet who has no explicit knowledge of the fact that his life is orientated in grace-given salvation to Jesus Christ.​

Ah, he speaks of non-Christians having faith, hope and love, and God honoring it. That is far different from what was implied here, where God would specifically turn somebody out for no other reason than that he believed that non-Christians don't go to hell.

 

[steve_bakr]

I hadn't heard of Rahner, but thanks for sharing. I did a quick search and found:

We prefer the terminology according to which that man is called an ‘anonymous Christian’ who on the one hand has de facto accepted of his freedom this gracious self-offering on God’s part through faith, hope, and love, while on the other he is absolutely not yet a Christian at the social level (through baptism and membership of the Church) or in the sense of having consciously objectified his Christianity to himself in his own mind (by explicit Christian faith resulting from having hearkened to the explicit Christian message) We might therefore put it as follows: the ‘anonymous Christian’ in our sense of the term is the pagan after the beginning of the Christian mission, who lives in the state of Christ’s grace through faith, hope and love, yet who has no explicit knowledge of the fact that his life is orientated in grace-given salvation to Jesus Christ.

Ah, he speaks of non-Christians having faith, hope and love, and God honoring it. That is far different from what was implied here, where God would specifically turn somebody out for no other reason than that he believed that non-Christians don't go to hell.

Yes, that's right.

 

[CaseyB]

So now I am told that what I get here is just various opinions of different denominations and not necessarily the right answer. And if I want the right answer I need to ask somebody omniscient. OK, you know somebody omniscient, but unfortunately, he does not post at this site, yes? If he has the correct answer (rather than the denominational opinions I get here) it sure would have been nice had he chosen to post here. That would have resolved the question long ago.

You say, "faith has nothing to do with evidence," which seems scary to me. If your beliefs are not based on evidence, how do you know that any of them are true?

You say, "If God wanted us to know that he was real, he'd have made it obvious." So your God appears to be playing a cat and mouse game, hiding from us so it is not obvious, and hoping that we will turn to him without evidence. If God does not want us to go by the evidence, why did he give me a thinker?

You say, "If you would like a specific denomination's answer, please specify". That's odd. I didn't come to inquire about any specific denomination. I came to ask about the right answer. Are you saying nobody here can give me the right answer? They can only let me know what some denomination says? That's not what I came for. I came for the facts.

Instead of asking for a denomination's opinion, can I ask for the opinion of the 12 disciples? How did they say to get to heaven?

I'm not sure if you just don't know what faith means or if you're just trolling the forum. If there was irrefutable evidence of one religion being correct what makes you think that it wouldn't have already been found? What makes you think that you are going to find it on the internet? I don't know what's true and anyone who says they do is kidding themselves. We can't truly know anything for sure, its impossible, your eyes, ears and brain can deceive you. All you can do is have faith and faith is not about irrefutable truths. Take a look at the dictionary definition of faith:

Faith: Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

You ask how I know my beliefs are true. I don't. I believe they are true. That's what makes them beliefs and not knowledge.

Sorry to disappoint you. If you are looking for facts, you will not find them.

You can ask for the 12 disciples' opinion but considering they're dead, all you can get is hearsay or something that someone else said that they said.

 

[doubtingmerle]

If there was irrefutable evidence of one religion being correct what makes you think that it wouldn't have already been found?

I don't look for irrefutable evidence on religion. We have no way of knowing the ultimate meaning of the universe with absolute certainty.

In religion, I choose those assertions that have the best evidence.

I don't know what's true and anyone who says they do is kidding themselves. We can't truly know anything for sure, its impossible, your eyes, ears and brain can deceive you.

That is pretty much the definition of agnosticism. Your writings have a strong hint of agnosticism.

All you can do is have faith and faith is not about irrefutable truths. Take a look at the dictionary definition of faith:

Faith: Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

That is all you can do? The other option is to admit that you don't know for sure, and then look for the best evidence and go with it.

Why make a leap of faith if there is evidence your faith may be in the wrong direction?

You ask how I know my beliefs are true. I don't. I believe they are true. That's what makes them beliefs and not knowledge.

OK, but what if there is evidence your beliefs should be modified? Do you then modify your beliefs, or do you stick with them in spite of the evidence?

You can ask for the 12 disciples' opinion but considering they're dead, all you can get is hearsay or something that someone else said that they said.

Exactly! We have only two documents that distinctly claim to be written by one of the 12 disciples (I Peter & 2 Peter), and both of those were probably written by somebody else. So we don't know for sure what those 12 disciples taught.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Now if you want to break down the belief component of faith, we can talk about what specific things one should belief. To that, I'd say that the Biblical message of the Gospel should be believed. Anything that attempts to modify it should be thrown out.

And how do I know what is "biblical"? There is evidence that the content has been tampered with. Also, other worthy books were not included in the Bible, whereas questionable books like third John made it. If my salvation depends on believing the message of the true content of the Bible, and if I have a Bible with wrong content in it, then I am doomed without knowing it. What belongs in the Bible?

For instance, your belief that God would not throw anyone into Hell runs into direct conflict with what the Bible teaches, which is that all of us are by default heading on a path to Hell and that Christ is the only escape.

Actually that is questionable. Hell is basically taught in the Gospels and Revelation. A strong case can be made that the Gospels were warning of the destruction of Jewish bodies in the valley of Gehenna by the Romans. And Revelation is such a bizarre book of imagery, it is hard to tell what should be taken literally in that book. So your case that all go to hell unless they are Christian is weak. And yet in spite of the fact that the case is weak, you write that, if I want to escape hell, I must believe that non-Christians go to hell.

 

[CaseyB]

I don't look for irrefutable evidence on religion. We have no way of knowing the ultimate meaning of the universe with absolute certainty.

In religion, I choose those assertions that have the best evidence.

That is pretty much the definition of agnosticism. Your writings have a strong hint of agnosticism.


That is all you can do? The other option is to admit that you don't know for sure, and then look for the best evidence and go with it.

Why make a leap of faith if there is evidence your faith may be in the wrong direction?

OK, but what if there is evidence your beliefs should be modified? Do you then modify your beliefs, or do you stick with them in spite of the evidence?


Exactly! We have only two documents that distinctly claim to be written by one of the 12 disciples (I Peter & 2 Peter), and both of those were probably written by somebody else. So we don't know for sure what those 12 disciples taught.

Agnostic has to do with beliefs right? I can know that I can't know anything for sure and still believe in something. I believe very strongly that I need to breath to live. I don't know it for sure. All I have to go on is what other people have told me, along with the feeling I get when I hold my breath for a long period of time. How do I know I can trust the scientific community? How do I know I can even trust something that 100% of the rest of the worlds population believes? The truth is I don't know. But I do believe. I don't know why, there's really no true logic to believing something just because everyone else does, look at the flat earth beliefs. Everyone used to think that the sun revolved around the earth. How do we know we are technologically advancing and not actually devolving and actually know less about the world than we did 1000 years ago? There's no true proof of anything. Knowing that doesn't make me an agnostic, it just makes me a skeptic. I don't agree with religious people touting their beliefs as facts, I think it makes us look stupid in my opinion and will not in any way do anything towards converting intelligent people, at least from personal experience.

 

[graceandpeace]

If by "Heaven" you mean the "sweet by-and-by" "pie in the sky" fluffy clouds, etc; then firstly such a thing doesn't exist and Christian Scripture never mentions such a thing.

If by "Heaven" you mean the future good life with and in God in the renewal of creation and all things, then the "requirement" to be part of God's future world is to want to be part of God's future world.

If you don't want to be part of what God is doing and will do in and for the world, then you don't have to.

God's gracious invasion into our world in the Person of Jesus to restore and reconcile the world to Himself, means God drawing us to Himself, joining us to His Son, and thus creating in us the foretaste of that future world by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.

Hell is the alternative--the fruitful manifestation of a life lived incurvatis, curved inward.

There's no room for injustice, hate, bitterness, murder, greed, pride, selfishness, and malice in God's future world; so those who prefer these will get to keep them. There's plenty of space in Hell to have everything one could ever want, all for oneself. Milton wrote that the devil considered it better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven. And, sure enough, everyone in Hell gets to rule; and everyone in Heaven serves.

-CryptoLutheran

I'm late chiming in on this thread, but this a great answer for the OP.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Agnostic has to do with beliefs right? I can know that I can't know anything for sure and still believe in something.

Actually "agnostic" has to do with our ability to know. Literally it means "no knowledge". The classic argument for that definition of agnosticism is precisely the definition you stated: Since our senses might be deceiving us, then we cannot know with absolute certainty that something our senses tell us is correct.

I believe very strongly that I need to breath to live. I don't know it for sure. All I have to go on is what other people have told me, along with the feeling I get when I hold my breath for a long period of time.

You have evidence that you need to breathe, so you believe it. That is the scientific method. I promote that method.

How do I know I can trust the scientific community?

Because in general the scientific community follows the scientific method, which has been shown to be very effective. But nothing is known for certainty, even if scientists have concluded it is true.

How do I know I can even trust something that 100% of the rest of the worlds population believes?

You don't. But if everybody believes it, then you should have a hunch that it is true until you find evidence that shows otherwise.

I don't agree with religious people touting their beliefs as facts, I think it makes us look stupid in my opinion and will not in any way do anything towards converting intelligent people, at least from personal experience.

I agree.

 

[x141]

What are the requirements for a person to get to heaven?

According to Jesus, to believe you came from their.

 

[Emmy]

Dear doubtingmerle. In Luke 10: 25-28; Jesus tells a Lawyer to believe those two Commandments: 1) Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 2) Love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God wants our Love, freely given and No conditions tagged on. God is Love and God wants loving children/sons and daughters. What do we do? Jesus told us to: "ask and ye shall receive," ( Matthew 7: 7-10) We ask God and we thank God, then we share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His Love, also. We keep asking God and thanking God, then share all Love and Joy with our neighbour:
i.e. all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends. We might stumble or forget, but then we ask God to forgive us and Carry on Loving, and Caring for all around us. God will see our efforts, and God will bless us.
Everything we say or do, everything we advice or stand for, MUST BE FROM LOVE AND COMPASSION. A Christian`s weapon is Love, and with Love we will overcome all enmity and wrong behaviour.
Love and Compassion are the requirements God wants us to have, and we have many years to achieve that. Love is very catching and Love is what God wants from us.
The Bible tells us to " Repent," to stop being selfish and unloving, and become Loving and Caring men and Women " Be Born Again." It is not easy for us, but Jesus will help and guide us, and God is Love, and God wants Love from us:
Love God with all our beings and love our neighbour as we love ourselves. I say this with love, doubtingmerle. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[doubtingmerle]

If by "Heaven" you mean the "sweet by-and-by" "pie in the sky" fluffy clouds, etc; then firstly such a thing doesn't exist and Christian Scripture never mentions such a thing.

If by "Heaven" you mean the future good life with and in God in the renewal of creation and all things, then the "requirement" to be part of God's future world is to want to be part of God's future world.

Which would make all the discussion about what is required rather pointless. I don't suppose that many who have posted here stating their own particular view on the requirements would be happy to consider there is not even an other-worldly heaven to obtain.

 

[Joshua260]

Dear doubtingmerle. In Luke 10: 25-28; Jesus tells a Lawyer to believe those two Commandments: 1) Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 2) Love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God wants our Love, freely given and No conditions tagged on. God is Love and God wants loving children/sons and daughters. What do we do? Jesus told us to: "ask and ye shall receive," ( Matthew 7: 7-10) We ask God and we thank God, then we share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His Love, also. We keep asking God and thanking God, then share all Love and Joy with our neighbour:
i.e. all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends. We might stumble or forget, but then we ask God to forgive us and Carry on Loving, and Caring for all around us. God will see our efforts, and God will bless us.
Everything we say or do, everything we advice or stand for, MUST BE FROM LOVE AND COMPASSION. A Christian`s weapon is Love, and with Love we will overcome all enmity and wrong behaviour.
Love and Compassion are the requirements God wants us to have, and we have many years to achieve that. Love is very catching and Love is what God wants from us.
The Bible tells us to " Repent," to stop being selfish and unloving, and become Loving and Caring men and Women " Be Born Again." It is not easy for us, but Jesus will help and guide us, and God is Love, and God wants Love from us:
Love God with all our beings and love our neighbour as we love ourselves. I say this with love, doubtingmerle. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Emmy, I think this is such a great response. The question was "what are the requirements to get to heaven?" which is kind of like "what do I need to do to get a reward?". But instead, you explain what God wants from us (Love), and then go on to explain how we need to show love to others...it's a totally different focus and I think you did well to redirect to what we *should* be talking about. Many times we focus on the minutest of details and forget about the main message. Christianity is primarily about love, and this world needs more of that.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Emmy, I think this is such a great response. The question was "what are the requirements to get to heaven?" which is kind of like "what do I need to do to get a reward?". But instead, you explain what God wants from us (Love), and then go on to explain how we need to show love to others...it's a totally different focus and I think you did well to redirect to what we *should* be talking about. Many times we focus on the minutest of details and forget about the main message. Christianity is primarily about love, and this world needs more of that.

OK, so if I want to go to heaven all I need is love. That's it? Just love?

Others told me I needed a combination of belief, trust, and love. Perhaps they were making it too complicated. Perhaps I should be concentrating on love.

Who really knows?

 

[Clairvoyance]

Let me summarize:

Everyone has their different opinion based on their interpretation of the scriptures. Some say it's by faith, some by works.

Apparently some people think you can't get to heaven if you are rich! (based on the camel/eye of the needle verse.)

So basically it all comes down to whichever version of Christianity you decide to believe. Of course each denomination thinks their interpretation is the Truth with a capital "T".

 

[Joshua260]

I think you missed the point of what we were saying, but Emmy explained it pretty well. I'm not sure I could explain it any better.

I think many have already addressed your question quite thoroughly on this thread and Emmy was providing a little extra insight.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Which would make all the discussion about what is required rather pointless. I don't suppose that many who have posted here stating their own particular view on the requirements would be happy to consider there is not even an other-worldly heaven to obtain.

I'm not going to speak on anyone else's behalf.

But I will say that Christianity has never historically taught that we will exist in some heavenly "out-there" as disembodied ghosts floating around on fluffy clouds and streets of gold. That works for kitschy art pieces and cartoons; but not serious theology.

The Creed has always said that there is the resurrection of the dead, of the body.

Now we can call that rather ill-defined notion of existence "with the Lord" between death and resurrection "Heaven" if we like. Scripture doesn't call it that, in fact it never talks about anyone "going to Heaven"; but it does talk about us being apart from the body and present with the Lord, not as life forever after, but until the resurrection. Scripture scarcely touches upon the subject, it is far more interested--eschatologically speaking--on life after life after death. The resurrection of the dead, the last judgment, the renewal of all things, and the Age to Come. And so, again, if by "Heaven" we just mean the final state of all things as God purposes them, then "Heaven" isn't somewhere "up there" or "out there" but ultimately right here when after Christ returns, the dead are raised to eternal, immortal life; and God renews the entire universe and then He with us and we with Him, world without end.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[doubtingmerle]

And so, again, if by "Heaven" we just mean the final state of all things as God purposes them, then "Heaven" isn't somewhere "up there" or "out there" but ultimately right here when after Christ returns, the dead are raised to eternal, immortal life; and God renews the entire universe and then He with us and we with Him, world without end.

-CryptoLutheran

OK, "heaven" for you isn't some far off state after death, but rather right here on earth when the dead are resurrected.

So the question for you then become who is part of that eternal immortal life in a resurrected body with God? Is everybody part of it? Or must one meet certain requirements?

 

[doubtingmerle]

So basically it all comes down to whichever version of Christianity you decide to believe. Of course each denomination thinks their interpretation is the Truth with a capital "T".

Got it. I can pick any denomination I want and go with whatever they say. It does not matter.

Now all I need is an official list of denominations that God accepts. Do you include all independent churches, house churches, and cults as "denominations"? Do you include Muslims, Buddhists and Atheists?

And am I allowed to start my own denomination and set my own rules? And if I do, will my rules then be as valid as everybody else's?