What are the real reasons people do not like "Hellfire and brimstone" preaching (messages)...?

[Neogaia777]

I didn’t say I believe the Christadelphians conclusions. They don’t believe Jesus preexisted either or the Trinity BUT they claim to believe everything that the Bible says.

Lucifer, Satan and their followers were very real! Evil is obviously real. Life and death is real, salvation is real.

That's a start...

Are you willing to accept the real truth (view) about God, even if it doesn't fit in with your own view of "what God should be" in your view, or point of view, or and/or perspective...?

If your not willing to do that, I doubt you'll arrive at any real truth (about God)...

Be willing to just consider and/or entertain views about God or try to reason or test out views about God, that may not seem right to you (at first) or fit in with your view (initially, at least) and are not your own...

It will take that kind of bravery and/or testing out of those, to arrive at any real truth...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Maybe when you start these threads where you solicit opinions you should stipulate that you only want answers that you agree with. My opening response is my answer.

Post #36...?

Sorry but it's wrong...

I'm digging for truth and am a truth seeker, and I want others on board with me, but it seems as if all to many, don't have what it takes, or will not do what is even required to even begin to do that (get at truth)...

As if it's kind of like the world, everyone has "their (own) truth", when I know there is only one truth...

I'm looking for recruits, and trying to get recruits...

God Bless!

 

[aiki]

What are the real reasons people do not like "Hellfire and brimstone" preaching (messages)...?

You'd have to ask people their reasons, wouldn't you? Why speculate? Go out and ask them.

Why does this rub people the wrong way, or bother their conscience, or strike them as "wrong" or bad, or maybe even "evil" sometimes...?

John 3:19-20
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

No one likes to be told they're wrong. Certainly, no one likes to hear that they will one day have to answer to Someone higher, and greater, and more righteous than they are for the life they've lived.

I'm not sure, though, what you mean by "hellfire and brimstone." This description is applied far too liberally to sermons today that preachers 100 years ago would have found watery, and compromised, and juvenile. Very few - if any - modern preachers get anywhere close to real "hellfire and brimstone" preaching. So, what sort of sermon are you thinking of, exactly?

 

[LostMarbels]

What are the real reasons people do not like "Hellfire and brimstone" preaching (messages)...?

Why does this rub people the wrong way, or bother their conscience, or strike them as "wrong" or bad, or maybe even "evil" sometimes...?

What are the "real reasons" for this...?

Comments/discussion...?

God Bless!

I found in my walk with Christ that some do not want to follow a God with unmitigated authority. I find that many people simply can not, or will not accept a sovereign God with absolute rule. God, has the unmitigated immutable sovereign authority to do those thing we, the creation, may deem as impossible, impractical, or even unfair by our own limited reasoning.

The only way for me to say it, is to say it. God alone is sovereign. God alone sits on the throne and reigns as king. God dose not support anything we do. Our purest actions are nout but filthy rags. We must come into agreement with him, not him with us. It simply dose not matter what you chose to believe. God's will, will be done no matter what you do. When Jesus comes back you either go with, or you don't. That may be a somewhat harsh or obtuse way of putting it, but God's plan in Jesus The Christ is the only way.

I think the first problem many have is they are starting on the premises that they have the ability to judge God, and his plan of punishment/salvation. Secondly, they are equating God's actions to human like, when in fact it is us humans that mimic God"s actions. Remember God is the creator, He doesn't act like us. Instead we act in the image of our creator. We experience his intellect, his emotions. All that exists is created and/or gifted to us by God. Including our ability to reason, or ponder God himself. Even the ability to ponder death and hell.

Along this line of reasoning, some get the veiw point that a loving God wouldn't, shouldn't, or can't. This puts them in the position of judging Gods plan, instead of asking the creator of the plan, why the plan is like that. So instead of asking God for knowledge, they are now leaning upon their own understanding. For some, it is far too worrisome to even consider that some, even loved ones, may perish in the second death. So it is easier to just dismiss it or write it off as something else. Again because a loving God wouldn't, couldn't and so on.

So in short, some fear God which is the beginning of knowledge. And others fear the loss of some semblance of control over their life. Which might make them feel better... more comfortable.

 

[Tutorman]

What are the real reasons people do not like "Hellfire and brimstone" preaching (messages)...?

Why does this rub people the wrong way, or bother their conscience, or strike them as "wrong" or bad, or maybe even "evil" sometimes...?

What are the "real reasons" for this...?

Comments/discussion...?

God Bless!

My knee-jerk reaction is that people are to soft now of days. My more thoughtful reaction is did Christ, the Apostles, or the Church Fathers ever preach that way or did they preach the good news of Christ.

 

[Colter]

Post #36...?

Sorry but it's wrong...

I'm digging for truth and am a truth seeker, and I want others on board with me, but it seems as if all to many, don't have what it takes, or will not do what is even required to even begin to do that (get at truth)...

As if it's kind of like the world, everyone has "their (own) truth", when I know there is only one truth...

I'm looking for recruits, and trying to get recruits...

God Bless!

For those who die and are not saved and resurrected in the next life, God would have to resurrect them in an eternal body that he can torment them with in the Hell fire place.

Is that what you believe?

 

[Aldebaran]

What are the real reasons people do not like "Hellfire and brimstone" preaching (messages)...?

I think it's because people generally don't like being screamed at, or having someone use fear to get them to believe something. It might feel more like someone is using more of an intimidation tactic rather than love to get you to believe something. I used to live with someone who would look up those type of preachings on the internet and would play them loud. It gave me a headache hearing all that yelling all the time.

 

[ClementofA]

What are the real reasons people do not like "Hellfire and brimstone" preaching (messages)...?

During the "dark ages" would you have known that? Daring to express such a dislike would have often got you persecuted, tortured or put to death or both.

OTOH what are the real reasons why anyone would like such messages?

"The following sermon is one of the most famous of all Christian sermons. It is also one of the most diabolical. Newspapers reporting of the "Great Awakening" tell us some people actually left Jonathan Edwards' services and killed themselves because of the way which he dangled them over the flames of his imaginary Hell. What is so ironic and so barbaric is that he gathered potential Christians together for the...purpose of informing them there is nothing they can do to alter their fate. He dangles his audience over the eternal flames of Hell while informing them there is nothing they can do to circumvent this fate because God predestined from the foundation of the world those who were destined to burn forever. This wicked teaching is still perpetuated by Presbyterians, Reformed and some Baptist denominations as well as others. This teaching should be outlawed as inhumane and yet ministers like D. James Kennedy and others continue to teach it. I do not hesitate to state this sermon springs from a demented mind, not from the mind of Christ. Read it and weep. And take your stand against such diabolical teachings. Jesus is the Savior of the world. He did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them. He will not give up until He finds the very last soul/sheep and brings it back into His fold."

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/sinners_in_the_hands_of_an_angry_god_edwards.html

 

[Neogaia777]

For those who die and are not saved and resurrected in the next life, God would have to resurrect them in an eternal body that he can torment them with in the Hell fire place.

Is that what you believe?

I think hell could be a continuous recycled existence of sorts in/and/of, or for; fallen realities only, and that some never ever make it beyond that, ever, for as long as creation exists, and in that way, are in "eternal death" constantly, or are eternally dying, (suffering, tormented, ect)...

It's not solid yet, but is a theory I am currently entertaining and am looking into...

I do think our literal interpretation of hell is wrong though...

And I wonder if hell is the fallen realities...? And those tormented or tortured in it, are those who are meant for it/them forever, or, at least till creation no longer exists, at least...(and never ever go or make it into heaven, ever)...(or never, ever, make it out of this/these kinds of realities ever)...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I think hell could be a continuous recycled existence of sorts in/and/of, or for; fallen realities only, and that some never ever make it beyond that, ever, for as long as creation exists, and in that way, are in "eternal death" constantly, or are eternally dying, (suffering, tormented, ect)...

It's not solid yet, but is a theory I am currently entertaining and am looking into...

I do think our literal interpretation of hell is wrong though...

And I wonder if hell is the fallen realities...? And those tormented or tortured in it, are those who are meant for it/them forever, or, at least till creation no longer exists, at least...(and never ever go or make it into heaven, ever)...(or never, ever, make it out of this/these kinds of realities ever)...

God Bless!

And if my current theory holds any water, it does make one wonder how really even "real" some people actually are... Since they never make it out of or beyond this or these kinds of realities, or places... Or never ever make it into the really real life, or really real place, that makes one really real (or not) to begin with...

I wonder and have wondered that about my ex sometimes (seriously) (as if I was taking to a very insignificant not really real person) (and was why it all seemed like such a big waste of time, energy and effort, and beating my head up against a wall) (cause they seemed to be destined for or to not being really real, completely unable to change, or change or alter their course at all, like lemmings going over a cliff, all that)... And I have wondered it about some other people I see and/or know as well...?

God Bless!

 

[PloverWing]

He dangles his audience over the eternal flames of Hell while informing them there is nothing they can do to circumvent this fate because God predestined from the foundation of the world those who were destined to burn forever.

I haven't studied Edwards' theology enough to discuss it well (perhaps one of our Reformed participants can do that). However, this particular sermon ends by calling for a decision on the listener's part: "Therefore, let every one that is out of Christ, now awake and fly from the wrath to come. The wrath of Almighty God is now undoubtedly hanging over a great part of this congregation: Let every one fly out of Sodom: 'Haste and escape for your lives, look not behind you, escape to the mountain, lest you be consumed.' " It appears to me that Edwards thought listeners capable of making a decision to repent and turn to Jesus.

 

[ubicaritas]

It's emotionally manipulative and fear based.

 

[ClementofA]

I haven't studied Edwards' theology enough to discuss it well (perhaps one of our Reformed participants can do that). However, this particular sermon ends by calling for a decision on the listener's part: "Therefore, let every one that is out of Christ, now awake and fly from the wrath to come. The wrath of Almighty God is now undoubtedly hanging over a great part of this congregation: Let every one fly out of Sodom: 'Haste and escape for your lives, look not behind you, escape to the mountain, lest you be consumed.' " It appears to me that Edwards thought listeners capable of making a decision to repent and turn to Jesus.

I've heard also Calvin & Piper hold to double predestination:

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-does-piper-mean-when-he-says-hes-a-seven-point-calvinist

https://books.google.ca/books?id=4_...onathan edwards double predestination&f=false

 

[Colter]

It's emotionally manipulative and fear based.

So true! Jesus was a positive teacher, he didn’t advertise sin. His good news was like cool water on parched earth. The contemplation of the truth of the goodness of our Heavenly Father far transcends the desire to desire the darkness and death of sin.

 

[Phil 1:21]

What are the real reasons people do not like "Hellfire and brimstone" preaching (messages)...?

Pride.

A lot of people want the good news without the bad news. They don’t want to hear that and why they are in need of a savior. They just want someone to pat them on the head and tell them how great they are. The want to be the Pharisee, not the tax collector (Luke 18:9-14)

 

[Dan the deacon]

For those who die and are not saved and resurrected in the next life, God would have to resurrect them in an eternal body that he can torment them with in the Hell fire place.

Is that what you believe?

I would doubt anyone believes what your asking. But please explain why your earthly reasoning would be correct in an unearthly rhelm?

 

[Colter]

I would doubt anyone believes what your asking. But please explain why your earthly reasoning would be correct in an unearthly rhelm?

Because I have a moral conscience.

There are Christians on this page above that believe it. See post #89

One Christian on another page explains Biblically how God suppsivly resurrects a victim of eternal judgment in a new form so they can be punished.


“The physical bodies of the lost are on track to be terminated in the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:11-15. But according to the Bible, the physical element is not the sum total of human life; it's merely a portable shelter, viz: a tent; sort of like an arthropod's exoskeleton. (2Cor 5:1-4 and 1Pet 1:13)

In addition, the corpses of the lost won't be cremated; but instead kept in existence as perpetual nourishment for a curious species of fire-proof worm. (Isa 66:23-24 and Mark 9:47-48)

A worm that thrives in fire is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable. The 4 inch Pompeii worm inhabits sea water temperatures of 176° Fahrenheit: hot enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even warmer.”

 

[Dan the deacon]

Because I have a moral conscience.

There are Christians on this page above that believe it. See post #89

One Christian on another page explains Biblically how God suppsivly resurrects a victim of eternal judgment in a new form so they can be punished.


“The physical bodies of the lost are on track to be terminated in the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:11-15. But according to the Bible, the physical element is not the sum total of human life; it's merely a portable shelter, viz: a tent; sort of like an arthropod's exoskeleton. (2Cor 5:1-4 and 1Pet 1:13)

In addition, the corpses of the lost won't be cremated; but instead kept in existence as perpetual nourishment for a curious species of fire-proof worm. (Isa 66:23-24 and Mark 9:47-48)

A worm that thrives in fire is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable. The 4 inch Pompeii worm inhabits sea water temperatures of 176° Fahrenheit: hot enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even warmer.”

Separation from God eternally is punishment enough. What we read is how that feels. Those lost do not receive a new body. Their soul receives the damnation not a physical body .

 

[Colter]

Separation from God eternally is punishment enough. What we read is how that feels. Those lost do not receive a new body. Their soul receives the damnation not a physical body .

They don’t exist anymore. Any good that they did returns to God.

“The habitual violation of a taboo became a vice; primitive law made vice a crime; religion made it a sin. Among the early tribes the violation of a taboo was a combined crime and sin. Community calamity was always regarded as punishment for tribal sin. To those who believed that prosperity and righteousness went together, the apparent prosperity of the wicked occasioned so much worry that it was necessary to invent hells for the punishment of taboo violators; the numbers of these places of future punishment have varied from one to five.”

 

[Dan the deacon]

They don’t exist anymore. Any good that they did returns to God.

“The habitual violation of a taboo became a vice; primitive law made vice a crime; religion made it a sin. Among the early tribes the violation of a taboo was a combined crime and sin. Community calamity was always regarded as punishment for tribal sin. To those who believed that prosperity and righteousness went together, the apparent prosperity of the wicked occasioned so much worry that it was necessary to invent hells for the punishment of taboo violators; the numbers of these places of future punishment have varied from one to five.”

If that is what you believe....good luck with it. You'll need it. Btw the number is two but mankind will experience them one at a time. One before the final judgement and the other after the judgement.