What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians? (Please no debating or criticism)

[not under law]

God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts of the Apostles 17:30).
Surely this includes the goal of fulfilling the two greatest commandments.

see post 353 bye

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This will be my last comment to you, for you cannot give me one single command of God a person would ignore if they loved him with all their heart, body, soul, mind and strength and loved others as themselves. True Love does not work that way. You are just trying to avoid the point continually made. God bless

Most Christians today think they can abide in sin on some level with the thinking they are saved. This is what they generally mean when they say they are not under the Law. All they have to do is believe in Jesus for salvation. The commands are just optional or to live sort of holy if they want. There is no true holy living in this view.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, you repent, accept Jesus is the Son of God, ask him into your life as your Lord and saviour. You are saved, then loving God and your neighbour fulfils the law of God

The two greatest commandments must include accepting Jesus as one's Savior, and in seeking forgiveness with Him, and in believing in His death, burial, and resurrection on our behalf for salvation. If this was not the case, then loving God, and loving your neighbor could not be the two greatest commandments. The greatest commandment would be to accept Jesus as one's Savior, and believe in the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Logic concludes that the two greatest commandments would include accepting God's grace, and in obeying Him afterwards.

1 John 3:23 is a command to believe in Jesus.
This is done first before one can obey God's other commands.
Logic dictates that 1 John 3:23 is a part of the
1st greatest commandment to love God in Mark 12:29-31.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Being raised in church, I used to look to written commandments and strive to obey them. Whether this was the ten commandments or Jesus teaching. I would focus on them and greatly desire to obey them, but if I am honest, those commands in truth showed me how guilty I was of so often failing to obey them. It made me very miserable much of the time, due to my faliures.
A few years ago, my mother whom I dearly loved was told by doctors she was dying of cancer. My wife and I went to look after her in her home for a while before the illness got too bad. During that time, I laid aside my own wants and desires, my joy was seeing my mother happy in the time she had left to live. Nothing was too much trouble to do for her. I loved taking her to see her friends, and bringing them to see her, I was so happy to see how much this meant to her. Taking her out to places she loved to go to made me as happy as it made her. If I had to carry anything for her, it would not bother me if I carried it one mile or two. I did not covet what was my mothers, I did not bear false witness against her, I did not want to murder her, steal from her and I honoured her. One evening I was standing outside her home, and it suddenly hit me that I was closer to the biblical ideal of how to live my life than I had ever previously done. I was obeying the moral law of the ten commandments where my mother was concerned, and obeying Christ's commands too. Why was I obeying the law? Did I look to the ten commandments and Christ's teaching and strive to obey them all concerning my mother? No! I never once thought of any of them where she was concerned. So why was I obeying them? Because I loved my mother greatly. Love really does fulfil the law.
Seems to me, that if we have to focus on, and strive to obey the words of the moral law/Christ's teaching, we are not loving as we should, and the more you love others, the less you will concentrate on literal commands as to how you should treat others, there wouldn't be any need

Yep someone's got it. Thanks this is a good personal example of what I have been trying to share here. Thankyou. Sadly people will not see what they do not want to.

God bless

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The list of what God expects of man, if you insist on the sterile "list" terminology, is to:

Do justly
Love Mercy
Walk humbly with God.

This, he who merely "highlights the Bible," is what you could not say.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Whatever verse a person does not put on the inside of them (i.e. does not believe), they will speak against that verse or it will be non-existent to them.

Take for example John 14:15. In my experience, most Christians today really do not believe John 14:15 in what it plainly says. So I have seen many of them speak against this verse while others applaud their efforts. They seek to change John 14:15, or act like this verse does not even exist. Why? Because the seed of the Word has to be placed in the heart like in the Parable of the Sower. If a person does not place the seed of the Word in their heart (i.e. a specific Scripture verse or passage), then the enemy can take that verse (or passage) out of their heart. It's why I believe scores of Christians today do not read and believe many verses or passages in their own Bible. It's the reason why when I quote verses to Christians in that they should believe, they instead seek to either:

(a) Ignore what it says.
(b) Change it.
(c) Cannot see what it plainly says (They cannot understand it).​

Jesus says we have to abide in Him, and abide in His words.
We have to put the Word on the inside of us.
We need to read it, and believe what it says plainly.

For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God
(Romans 10:17).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

To all:

Whatever verse a person does not put on the inside of them (i.e. does not believe), they will speak against that verse or it will be non-existent to them.

Take for example John 14:15. In my experience, most Christians today really do not believe John 14:15 in what it plainly says. So I have seen many of them speak against this verse while others applaud their efforts. They seek to change John 14:15, or act like this verse does not even exist. Why? Because the seed of the Word has to be placed in the heart like in the Parable of the Sower. If a person does not place the seed of the Word in their heart (i.e. a specific Scripture verse or passage), then the enemy can take that verse (or passage) out of their heart. It's why I believe scores of Christians today do not read and believe many verses or passages in their own Bible. It's the reason why when I quote verses to Christians in that they should believe, they instead seek to either:

(a) Ignore what it says.
(b) Change it.
(c) Cannot see what it plainly says (They cannot understand it).​

Jesus says we have to abide in Him, and abide in His words.
We have to put the Word on the inside of us.
We need to read it, and believe what it says plainly.

For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God
(Romans 10:17).

Does this apply to you also?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

When the Old Covenant was in effect before the cross: There were more laws than just the 10. There were laws against inappropriate behavior with animals, incest, etc. There were laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood. There was the continued law from Abraham to be circumcised. Circumcision was a part of salvation.

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).​

So being circumcised for the Jew back then was a necessary thing otherwise they would be cut off. This is why it is not just the 10. That is why I roll my eyes when folks say that all we have to obey is the 10 (if you were an Old Covenant saint).

Circumcision is still a commandment today. In the old covenant it is a "shadow law" *HEBREWS 10:1-12 which means it is prophetic in nature and was a lesson teaching of good things to come under the new covenant. Physical circumcision is symbolic of circumcision of the heart to love and God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12 from JEREMIAH 31:31-36 as shown here...

ROMANS 2:27-28 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARD IN THE FLESH:[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Hebrews 7:12 says the priesthood has changed, and the Law has changed.

HEBREWS 7 has nothing to do with God's 10 Commandments it is talking about a change in the laws for the Levitical Priesthood. As to be a Priest you have to had come from the tribe of Levi. HEBREWS 7 is about the change of Priesthood which points to JESUS as our great high priest who was from the tribe of Judah. So what is the CONTEXT of HEBREWS 7 and what laws is it talking about?

Let's look at the scriptures...

HEBREWS 7:1-28
[1], FOR THIS MELCHISEDEC, KING OF SALEM, PRIEST OF THE MOST HIGH GOD, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
[2], To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; FIRST BEING BY INTERPRETATION KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND AFTER THAT ALSO KING OF SALEM, WHICH IS, KING OF PEACE;
[3], WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DESCENT, HAVING NEITHER BEGINNING OF DAYS, NOR END OF LIFE; BUT MADE LIKE TO THE SON OF GOD; STAYS A PRIEST CONTINUALLY.
[4], Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
[5], And truly they that are of the SONS OF LEVI, WHO RECEIVE THE OFFICE OF THE PRIESTHOOD, HAVE A COMMANDMENT TO TAKE TITHES OF THE PEOPLE ACCORDING TO THE LAW, that is, of their brothers, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

NOTE: In the earthly Sanctuary only those from the tribe of Levi could be Priests. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah also note that the context of the chapter now is the Priesthood and the king and Priest (before Sinai) in the days of Abraham named Melchisedec.

[6], But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
[7], And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[8], And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.
[9], And as I may so say, Levi also, who receives tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
[10], For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
[11], IF THEREFORE PERFECTION WERE BY THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD, FOR UNDER IT THE PEOPLE RECEIVED THE LAW, WHAT FURTHER NEED WAS THERE THAT ANOTHER PRIEST SHOULD RISE AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC, AND NOT BE CALLED AFTER THE ORDER OF AARON?

NOTE: Topic is on the Levitical Priesthood the law we are talking about are the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23. The Priesthood was to be only for the tribe of Levi under the OLD COVENANT.

[12], FOR THE PRIESTHOOD BEING CHANGED, THERE IS MADE OF NECESSITY A CHANGE ALSO OF THE LAW.
[13], FOR HE OF WHOM THESE THINGS ARE SPOKEN PERTAINS TO ANOTHER TRIBE, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[14], FOR IT IS EVIDENT THAT OUR LORD SPRANG OUT OF JUDA; OF WHICH TRIBE MOSES SPOKE NOTHING CONCERNING PRIESTHOOD.
[15], And it is yet far more evident: for that AFTER THE SIMILITUDE OF MELCHISEDEC THERE RISES ANOTHER PRIEST,

NOTE: Jesus from the tribe of Judah is now our great high Priest from the order of Melchisedec. No more animal sacrifices.

[16], WHO IS MADE, NOT AFTER THE LAW OF A CARNAL COMMANDMENT, but after the power of an endless life.
[17], For he testifies, YOU ARE A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC.
[18], FOR THERE IS TRULY A CANCELLATION OF THE COMMANDMENT going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[19], FOR THE LAW MADE NOTHING PERFECT, BUT THE BRINGING IN OF A BETTER HOPE DID; BY THE WHICH WE DRAW NEAR TO GOD.
[20], And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
[21], For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said to him, The Lord swore and will not repent, YOU ARE A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC
[22], By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
[23], And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
[24], BUT THIS MAN, BECAUSE HE CONTINUES EVER, HAS AN UNCHANGEABLE PRIESTHOOD.
[25], Why he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them.
[26], FOR SUCH AN HIGH PRIEST BECAME US, WHO IS HOLY, HARMLESS, UNDEFILED, SEPARATE FROM SINNERS, AND MADE HIGHER THAN THE HEAVENS;
[27], Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
[28], FOR THE LAW MAKES MEN HIGH PRIESTS which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, WHICH WAS SINCE THE LAW, MAKES THE SON, WHO IS CONSECRATED FOR EVER MORE.

NOTE: v28 does the 10 commandments make men high Priests or does the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23?

.............

CONCLUSION: HEBREWS 7:12 in relation to the change of laws is talking about the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW not the 10 commandments and a change in the Priesthood and the laws that accompany it from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 24:7. Not the 10 commandments. Can you see your mistake here? JESUS was from the tribe of Judah the law prescribed Preists from the tribe of Levi. JESUS is our true great high priest from the order of Melchisedec meaning KING AND PRIEST.

No Sabbath commands have been given as a part of the New Covenant, and we are told that we should not allow for others to judge us in regards to the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16-17). These sabbaths are the ordinances that have been nailed to the cross by Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:14). It is simply a lack of not accepting the whole counsel of God's Word if somebody still thinks we have to keep the Saturday Sabbath. So if you do not get it after reading this paragraph, I cannot help you; And I will not endless argue with you over the Law of Moses.

Hmm what? I think you are confused here dear brother and not sure what your trying to say. If God has given us the 10 commandments in the old testament why does he have to give them again in the new testament? Does the new testament in your view delete the old testament scriptures? For your interest though everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament scriptures as shown here click me.

For your interest, all of God's 10 commandments are moral laws and our duty of love to God and man *MATTHEW 22:36-40. None of them are laws contained in "ordinances" The GREEK word used for "ordinances" is dogma which means civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. These are not moral laws.

Tell me my dear friend, what sabbaths is COLOSSIANS 2:16 talking about?
1. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week?
2. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week?
3. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week?
4. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days?
5. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle)?
6. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths?
7. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken?

You do know that there are many other sabbaths beside God's 4th commandment right? So can you show me and prove to me from the scriptures alone that Colossians 2:16 is talking about God's 4th commandment? What is the scripture and chapter context? - Yep nothing about God's 10 commandments. I believe you may need to study this a bit further dear friend (scripture support here)

As for living by every word of God that proceeds out of the mouth of God: In my list: I do mention Sola Scriptura as our spiritual authority and guide for our life with the leading of the Spirit (i.e. the Anointing). This means that the whole Bible is a guide to live by and includes verses like Matthew 4:4 in living by every word of God. So either you do not understand Sola Scriptura, or you glazed over my list like a glazed donut. I believe we are to live by every word of God.

Sola scripture simply means scripture alone. I posted earlier that your list while sections of it may come from scripture, it is simply a list that does not include "all scripture" which the words of God says we are to live by. To me it seems you are cherry picking scripture that suits you and not including all scripture which God's Word commands *MATTHEW 4:4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The OP is about putting forth your own list and using Scripture to support that conclusion. You have given one but I believe it is overly simplistic. I have shown to you why your position is not logical. Again, while Christians do accept every word of God in their Bible, if this same Christian does not accept the view on the Nephilim, it does not necessarily mean they are not Christian. They may believe in the Sethite view and accept and live by those very same Scriptures. But if it is the Trinity, then this changes things. The Trinity is an essential core doctrine that a believer must accept because I believe it does deal with salvation at a certain point in a believer's life.

God's Word is simplistic and the Word of God says we are to live by every word not some of it *MATTHEW 4:4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16. I believe this is easy and not hard to understand. God is a Spirit and those who whorship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *MATTHEW 4:23-24. The things that will stop someone losing their salvation is unbelief in God's Word and sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments) after we receive a knowledge of the truth and reject Gods' Word *ACTS 17:30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-39

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I don't mind discussing the OP topic, but I will not endlessly debate with you about the Law of Moses. For Scripture says we are not quarrel over the Law of Moses.

Sin is defined in God's Word as the trangression of Gods' LAW. You have been talking about sin (God's LAW) all through your thread. As shown earlier your interpretation of TITUS 3:9 in not biblical as the whole old and new testament is discussing "THE LAW" - Torah; Nomos, Entole. Did you want to go and tell JESUS and the apostles that they should not be discussing God's Law?

As shown earlier TITUS 3:9 which says [9], But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies (G1076 γενεαλογία means tracing by generations, that is, " genealogy") and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

We are not talking about foolish questions and genealogies and contentions and strivings about the law. TITUS 3:9 is in relation to the geneologies about the law

GENEAL'OGY, n. [L. genealogia; Gr. race, and discourse; Eng. kind.] 1. An account or history of the descent of a person or family from an ancestor; enumeration of ancestors and their children in the natural order of succession. 2. Pedigree; lineage; regular descent of a person or family from a progenitor in relation to the law

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says, "And by him all that believe are justified from all things from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses" (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).

Where have I said anywhere we are justified by the law of Moses? If I have said or believe no such thing why are you pretending that I have said things I have never said or believe?

Reading the Bible plainly it says not to quarrel or have strivings or arguments over the Law of Moses.

I would suggest getting a new bible. What version is that? Mine says... TITUS 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.

"New International Version
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

New Living Translation
Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These things are useless and a waste of time.

English Standard Version
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

Berean Study Bible
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless.

Berean Literal Bible
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the Law; for they are unprofitable and worthless.

New American Standard Bible
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

New King James Version
But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.

King James Bible
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

There you go, thats what mine says as well. I guess you can use the online bible if yours is saying different things. So why are you only highlighting certain sections of the scripture and not considering the scripture as a whole? It's like your cherry picking certain sections of the scripture and leaving out the context. Is that the way you read the bible?

I know what genealogies are and they are tied to the people of Israel who were under the Law of Moses. This does not undo basic grammar in a sentence in how we normally read things.

So what are the genealogies and strivings about the law mean? It does not mean what you are suggesting or there would be no old and new testament scriptures which are all about God's Law.

If things are as you say, then Titus 3:9 would say,

"But avoid foolish questions, genealogies,
and contentions in regards to the Law,
for they are unprofitable and vain."
(Titus 3:9 The Imaginary Sabbatarian Influenced Translation).

WARNING:
(THE ABOVE ALTERED VERSION OF TITUS 3:9 DOES NOT EXIST
AS A PART OF ANY REAL BIBLE)
(IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF AN ALTERED TEXT OF HOW SABBATARIANS PREFER TO READ THIS VERSE).​

Why are you pretending I am saying things I have never said?

In reality: In our real Bibles, most translations say that we are to avoid:

(a) Foolish questions, AND...
(b) Genealogies, AND....
(c) Contentions, AND...
(d) Strivings (quarrels) about the law.

Nonsense. Here look it up in biblehub. The original Greek says all the scripture content is the same subject matter. Westcott and Hort 1881 μωρὰς δὲ ζητήσεις καὶ γενεαλογίας καὶ ἔριν καὶ μάχας νομικὰς περιίστασο, εἰσὶν γὰρ ἀνωφελεῖς καὶ μάταιοι.

"Foolish, however controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law avoid for they are for unprofitable and worthless".

Transliteration to..

9, But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

The subject matter is avoiding foolish questions and contentions in regards to genealogies about the law. They are not four different throughts being expressed they are the same subject matter. Your rendering makes no sense whatsoever for example your four separate thoughts.

1. Avoid foolish questions - What foolish questions?
2. Genealogies - What Genealogies?
3. Contentions - What contentions?
4. about the law - What law (civil, ceremonial, levitical, moral)?

Can you see your interpretation of the scripture here dear friend makes no sense? Now apply this to the wider context of the whole bible which is all about God's LAW and salvation from sin which is the transgression of God's LAW. Does your interpretation of TITUS 3:9 dear friend still make sense to you?

The part of the sentence that says "strivings (quarrels) about the law" is a new thought within the sentence, and it is not a continuation of the reference to genealogies. If it was a part of the genealogies it would say "in regards to the Law" instead of, "and strivings (quarrels) about the law."
It would be like saying, "avoid foolish questions about cats, AND, avoid getting into cat fights." But then somebody comes along who does not like this particular saying (who likes to get into cat fights) will then claim that the cat fights is in regards to the foolish cat questions instead of how we are to avoid cat fights, too.

Seems most of the Greek language experts and commentators disagree with you. Perhaps you might want to contact all the Greek language experts on your break through as they disagree with you and tell them why they are in error and you are right?

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
Benson Commentary
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
Matthew Poole's CommentaryGill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

While I have found articles by Christians who live today helpful on rare occasion, I am so glad I gave up looking at the idiotic distortion of popular Bible Commentaries. Many times I have found them to distort the plain written meaning of God's Word like in this example.

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Corinthians 2:5).

"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (1 Corinthians 2:13).

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him" (1 John 2:27).

True, but I believe in this case you have not been able to prove a single claim you have made and are ignoring Greek word definition and scripture and chapter context. If your interpretation of TITUS 3:9 was correct no one would be dicussing God's LAW yet this is what all the bible is about. As shared with you earlier the context is foolish questions and arguments about genealogies in regards to the law not sin and God's LAW that according to JESUS, PAUL, JAMES and JOHN give is the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL, SIN AND RIGHTEOUSESS *MATTHEW 5:17-21; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. Do you know what the scriptures test is to know if someone is from God or not from God and how we know if you know God or do not know God?

Hope this is helpful

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Where have I said anywhere we are justified by the law of Moses? If I have said or believe no such thing why are you pretending that I have said things I have never said or believe?

I would suggest getting a new bible. What version is that? Mine says... TITUS 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.

There you go, thats what mine says as well. I guess you can use the online bible if yours is saying different things. So why are you only highlighting certain sections of the scripture and not considering the scripture as a whole? It's like your cherry picking certain sections of the scripture and leaving out the context. Is that the way you read the bible?

So what are the genealogies and strivings about the law mean? It does not mean what you are suggesting or there would be no old and new testament scriptures which are all about God's Law.

Why are you pretending I am saying things I have never said?


Nonsense. Here look it up in biblehub. The original Greek says all the scripture content is the same subject matter. Westcott and Hort 1881 μωρὰς δὲ ζητήσεις καὶ γενεαλογίας καὶ ἔριν καὶ μάχας νομικὰς περιίστασο, εἰσὶν γὰρ ἀνωφελεῖς καὶ μάταιοι.

"Foolish, however controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law avoid for they are for unprofitable and worthless".

Transliteration to..

9, But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

The subject matter is avoiding foolish questions and contentions in regards to genealogies about the law. They are not four different throughts being expressed they are the same subject matter. Your rendering makes no sense whatsoever for example your four separate thoughts.

1. Avoid foolish questions - What foolish questions?
2. Genealogies - What Genealogies?
3. Contentions - What contentions?
4. about the law - What law (civil, ceremonial, levitical, moral)?

Can you see your interpretation of the scripture here dear friend makes no sense? Now apply this to the wider context of the whole bible which is all about God's LAW and salvation from sin which is the transgression of God's LAW. Does your interpretation of TITUS 3:9 dear friend still make sense to you?


Seems most of the Greek language experts and commentators disagree with you. Perhaps you might want to contact all the Greek language experts on your break through as they disagree with you and tell them why they are in error and you are right?

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
Benson Commentary
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
Matthew Poole's CommentaryGill's Exposition of the Entire Bible


True, but I believe in this case you have not been able to prove a single claim you have made and are ignoring Greek word definition and scripture and chapter context. If your interpretation of TITUS 3:9 was correct no one would be dicussing God's LAW yet this is what all the bible is about. As shared with you earlier the context is foolish questions and arguments about genealogies in regards to the law not sin and God's LAW that according to JESUS, PAUL, JAMES and JOHN give is the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL, SIN AND RIGHTEOUSESS *MATTHEW 5:17-21; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. Do you know what the scriptures test is to know if someone is from God or not from God and how we know if you know God or do not know God?

Hope this is helpful

Okay. This is coming off as spamming my thread with your Sabbatarian beliefs. Please edit your posts to remove these kinds of lengthy replies on discussion of the Law of Moses and copy and paste them in your own Sabbatarian thread. Please do not spam my thread with your belief. I told you before I don't believe in having arguments or quarrels over the Law of Moses. I told you that this is not what this thread is about. I have renamed the title of this thread, and provided an updated note within my OP for this thread. It says:

IMPORTANT NOTE:
(PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING):

While you are allowed to post what you believe once or twice. Please, no debating or endless posts of a defense of your belief. General discussions about Soteriology may be allowed involving God's Grace, and Sanctification (involving holy living and obeying the NT commands), but please, no discussions on how we must obey the Sabbath, or the Old Testament Law of Moses, or how we must accept Calvinism, or the Sacraments, etc.

Also, please do not criticise my list or me as a person. Only state your own reasons in relation to the OP topic. If you do not agree with the OP topic, please do not post here. I am not looking to start a debate or to receive criticism for listing what I believe are important fundamental beliefs that Christians should focus on and or emphasize as a part of the faith.​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Circumcision is still a commandment today. In the old covenant it is a "shadow law" *HEBREWS 10:1-12 which means it is prophetic in nature and was a lesson teaching of good things to come under the new covenant. Physical circumcision is symbolic of circumcision of the heart to love and God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12 from JEREMIAH 31:31-36 as shown here...

ROMANS 2:27-28 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARD IN THE FLESH:[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



HEBREWS 7 has nothing to do with God's 10 Commandments it is talking about a change in the laws for the Levitical Priesthood. As to be a Priest you have to had come from the tribe of Levi. HEBREWS 7 is about the change of Priesthood which points to JESUS as our great high priest who was from the tribe of Judah. So what is the CONTEXT of HEBREWS 7 and what laws is it talking about?

Let's look at the scriptures...

HEBREWS 7:1-28
[1], FOR THIS MELCHISEDEC, KING OF SALEM, PRIEST OF THE MOST HIGH GOD, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
[2], To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; FIRST BEING BY INTERPRETATION KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND AFTER THAT ALSO KING OF SALEM, WHICH IS, KING OF PEACE;
[3], WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DESCENT, HAVING NEITHER BEGINNING OF DAYS, NOR END OF LIFE; BUT MADE LIKE TO THE SON OF GOD; STAYS A PRIEST CONTINUALLY.
[4], Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
[5], And truly they that are of the SONS OF LEVI, WHO RECEIVE THE OFFICE OF THE PRIESTHOOD, HAVE A COMMANDMENT TO TAKE TITHES OF THE PEOPLE ACCORDING TO THE LAW, that is, of their brothers, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

NOTE: In the earthly Sanctuary only those from the tribe of Levi could be Priests. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah also note that the context of the chapter now is the Priesthood and the king and Priest (before Sinai) in the days of Abraham named Melchisedec.

[6], But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
[7], And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[8], And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.
[9], And as I may so say, Levi also, who receives tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
[10], For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
[11], IF THEREFORE PERFECTION WERE BY THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD, FOR UNDER IT THE PEOPLE RECEIVED THE LAW, WHAT FURTHER NEED WAS THERE THAT ANOTHER PRIEST SHOULD RISE AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC, AND NOT BE CALLED AFTER THE ORDER OF AARON?

NOTE: Topic is on the Levitical Priesthood the law we are talking about are the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23. The Priesthood was to be only for the tribe of Levi under the OLD COVENANT.

[12], FOR THE PRIESTHOOD BEING CHANGED, THERE IS MADE OF NECESSITY A CHANGE ALSO OF THE LAW.
[13], FOR HE OF WHOM THESE THINGS ARE SPOKEN PERTAINS TO ANOTHER TRIBE, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[14], FOR IT IS EVIDENT THAT OUR LORD SPRANG OUT OF JUDA; OF WHICH TRIBE MOSES SPOKE NOTHING CONCERNING PRIESTHOOD.
[15], And it is yet far more evident: for that AFTER THE SIMILITUDE OF MELCHISEDEC THERE RISES ANOTHER PRIEST,

NOTE: Jesus from the tribe of Judah is now our great high Priest from the order of Melchisedec. No more animal sacrifices.

[16], WHO IS MADE, NOT AFTER THE LAW OF A CARNAL COMMANDMENT, but after the power of an endless life.
[17], For he testifies, YOU ARE A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC.
[18], FOR THERE IS TRULY A CANCELLATION OF THE COMMANDMENT going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[19], FOR THE LAW MADE NOTHING PERFECT, BUT THE BRINGING IN OF A BETTER HOPE DID; BY THE WHICH WE DRAW NEAR TO GOD.
[20], And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
[21], For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said to him, The Lord swore and will not repent, YOU ARE A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC
[22], By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
[23], And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
[24], BUT THIS MAN, BECAUSE HE CONTINUES EVER, HAS AN UNCHANGEABLE PRIESTHOOD.
[25], Why he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them.
[26], FOR SUCH AN HIGH PRIEST BECAME US, WHO IS HOLY, HARMLESS, UNDEFILED, SEPARATE FROM SINNERS, AND MADE HIGHER THAN THE HEAVENS;
[27], Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
[28], FOR THE LAW MAKES MEN HIGH PRIESTS which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, WHICH WAS SINCE THE LAW, MAKES THE SON, WHO IS CONSECRATED FOR EVER MORE.

NOTE: v28 does the 10 commandments make men high Priests or does the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23?

.............

CONCLUSION: HEBREWS 7:12 in relation to the change of laws is talking about the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW not the 10 commandments and a change in the Priesthood and the laws that accompany it from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 24:7. Not the 10 commandments. Can you see your mistake here? JESUS was from the tribe of Judah the law prescribed Preists from the tribe of Levi. JESUS is our true great high priest from the order of Melchisedec meaning KING AND PRIEST.



Hmm what? I think you are confused here dear brother and not sure what your trying to say. If God has given us the 10 commandments in the old testament why does he have to give them again in the new testament? Does the new testament in your view delete the old testament scriptures? For your interest though everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament scriptures as shown here click me.

For your interest, all of God's 10 commandments are moral laws and our duty of love to God and man *MATTHEW 22:36-40. None of them are laws contained in "ordinances" The GREEK word used for "ordinances" is dogma which means civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. These are not moral laws.

Tell me my dear friend, what sabbaths is COLOSSIANS 2:16 talking about?
1. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week?
2. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week?
3. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week?
4. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days?
5. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle)?
6. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths?
7. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken?

You do know that there are many other sabbaths beside God's 4th commandment right? So can you show me and prove to me from the scriptures alone that Colossians 2:16 is talking about God's 4th commandment? What is the scripture and chapter context? - Yep nothing about God's 10 commandments. I believe you may need to study this a bit further dear friend (scripture support here)



Sola scripture simply means scripture alone. I posted earlier that your list while sections of it may come from scripture, it is simply a list that does not include "all scripture" which the words of God says we are to live by. To me it seems you are cherry picking scripture that suits you and not including all scripture which God's Word commands *MATTHEW 4:4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16

Hope this helps.

This is spamming my thread. Please remove this content from my thread and copy and paste it in your own Sabbatarian thread. I am not reading these kinds of replies because I do not agree with your beliefs and I do not agree with arguing or quarreling over the Law of Moses.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Does this apply to you also?

We are not to criticise individual posters personally. We can disagree. But we are to address the content of the post with Scripture if we disagree and not make it about an individual.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sin is defined in God's Word as the trangression of Gods' LAW. You have been talking about sin (God's LAW) all through your thread. As shown earlier your interpretation of TITUS 3:9 in not biblical as the whole old and new testament is discussing "THE LAW" - Torah; Nomos, Entole. Did you want to go and tell JESUS and the apostles that they should not be discussing God's Law?

As shown earlier TITUS 3:9 which says [9], But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies (G1076 γενεαλογία means tracing by generations, that is, " genealogy") and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

We are not talking about foolish questions and genealogies and contentions and strivings about the law. TITUS 3:9 is in relation to the geneologies about the law

GENEAL'OGY, n. [L. genealogia; Gr. race, and discourse; Eng. kind.] 1. An account or history of the descent of a person or family from an ancestor; enumeration of ancestors and their children in the natural order of succession. 2. Pedigree; lineage; regular descent of a person or family from a progenitor in relation to the law

This is a continual debate on a topic that I consider to be an extreme violation of the focus of my thread topic. This thread is not about an argument of defending Sabbatarian beliefs or how Christians must obey the Law of Moses. That is what you believe. Please do not spam my thread. Please edit out the words within this post and move it to another thread please.

In any event, may God bless you (even if we disagree on God's Word).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is spamming my thread. Please remove this content from my thread and copy and paste it in your own Sabbatarian thread. I am not reading these kinds of replies because I do not agree with your beliefs and I do not agree with arguing or quarreling over the Law of Moses.

Why do you consider my posts spamming your thread when the post you are quoting from are simply a scripture reply to posts you made on the subject matter being discussed within this thread?

If you will notice it is not me that has once brought up the Sabbath and law here in your thread it was you. I simply have been replying to your posts. So, why is it ok for you to make posts in your thread on the Sabbath and the law and not ok for others to respond to them?

As posted and shown through the scriptures earlier we are not quarreling over the genealogies in the law of Moses which is what TITUS 3:9 is talking about. All I seem to be getting from you is that it is ok for you to post something here but if people challenge your claims and provide scripture showing why they may disagree with you then that is not ok.

I have never once criticized you. Asking questions of you or disagreeing with you and showing why through the scriptures is not a criticism it is a discussion showing why I disagree. Anyhow your other posts are not worth my time as I believe they are personal claims that are not true. If you do not want a discussion just say so but if you want to make claims in posts addressed to me why do you think I am not allowed to respond to them?

Ok have a nice day. I only wish you well.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why do you consider my posts spamming your thread when the post you are quoting from are simply a scripture reply to posts you made on the subject matter being discussed within this thread?

If you will notice it is not me that has once brought up the Sabbath and law here in your thread it was you. I simply have been replying to your posts. So, why is it ok for you to make posts in your thread on the Sabbath and the law and not ok for others to respond to them?

As posted and shown through the scriptures earlier we are not quarreling over the genealogies in the law of Moses which is what TITUS 3:9 is talking about. All I seem to be getting from you is that it is ok for you to post something here but if people challenge your claims and provide scripture showing why they may disagree with you then that is not ok.

I have never once criticized you. Asking questions of you or disagreeing with you and showing why through the scriptures is not a criticism it is a discussion showing why I disagree. Anyhow your other posts are not worth my time as I believe they are personal claims that are not true. If you do not want a discussion just say so but if you want to make claims in posts addressed to me why do you think I am not allowed to respond to them?

Ok have a nice day. I only wish you well.

First, you criticized me in post #367 implying by your question that I may not be applying the very teaching that I was putting forth. Second, in my initial discussion with you in post #315 I said this,

"I also do not accept the idea that Christians must keep the Saturday Sabbath, either. Colossians 2:14-17 destroys that idea. Please. Do not post the verses on how we must keep the Old Testament Law of Moses in debate. This thread is not about debating the Sabbath or the Law of Moses. Neither is this thread about you criticizing my lists."​

Even after I told you this, you simply ignored what I said. I asked you to stop pushing your defense of the Sabbath within my thread repeatedly, and you kept ignoring them. I even added a note in the OP to not do so, as well. You are still not respecting the thread discussion rules I have set out. This thread is not about discussing how we must obey the Law of Moses.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello Highlighter, this will possibly be my last post to you here as I can see your not interested in a discussion. Some comments to your previous post below.

First, you criticized me in post #367 implying by your question that I may not be applying the very teaching that I was putting forth. Second, in my initial discussion with you in post #315 I said this,

"I also do not accept the idea that Christians must keep the Saturday Sabbath, either. Colossians 2:14-17 destroys that idea. Please. Do not post the verses on how we must keep the Old Testament Law of Moses in debate. This thread is not about debating the Sabbath or the Law of Moses. Neither is this thread about you criticizing my lists."​

Even after I told you this, you simply ignored what I said. I asked you to stop pushing your defense of the Sabbath within my thread repeatedly, and you kept ignoring them. I even added a note in the OP to not do so, as well. You are still not respecting the thread discussion rules I have set out. This thread is not about discussing how we must obey the Law of Moses.

Nonsense. All I posted in your thread was in response to your OP was this...

What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians?

For me your list is inadequate as according to the scriptures we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. MATTHEW 4:4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16. In times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth calls us to believe and follow His Word *ACTS 17:30-31; ACTS 5:29.

Then it was you who started talking about the Sabbath in post # 315 linked reponding to what I posted above which had nothing to do with the Sabbath or did I once mention.

Post #367 was not a criticism it was a question that applies to all of us that believe and follow God's Word.

Since your bringing it up again and repeating your claims in regards to the Sabbath to me here, as posted earlier I believe Colossians 2:14-17 has nothing to do with God's 4th commandment it is talking about sabbaths (plural) to the context of FEAST DAYS, NEW MOONS and MEAT and DRINK OFFERINGS. Paul is referring to the old testament scriptures in EZEKIEL 45:17 and elsewhere in reference to the same content as COLOSSIANS 2:16 to ceremonial sabbaths in ordinances that can fall on any day of the week, not God's 4th commandment that gives us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.

You do know my dear friend that there is many kinds of sabbaths in the bible right? So please tell me if your claims are true, what sabbaths (plural) is COLOSSIANS 2 talking about and what is the within scripture context of COLOSSIANS 2:16? Is it...

1. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week?
2. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week?
3. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week?
4. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days (any day of the week)?
5. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle)?
6. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths?
7. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken?

*More scripture support here proving Colossian 2 is not talking about God's 4th commandment or any of God's 10 commandments linked

I am sorry but I believe you are yet to prove anything you have posted here to me. There is no need to get upset. If your not interested in a discussion just say so as I am sure we both have better things to do with our time, but please if you direct a post towards me please do not expect me not to respond to it and pretend your the victim when your clearly not when you are the one instigating a discussion on the Sabbath in your own thread.

Anyhow my friend we will have to agree to disagree.

Thankyou for the discussion.

PS. I noticed you only just changed the titile your your OP by adding...
(Please no debating or criticism)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

PS. I noticed you only just changed the titile your your OP by adding...
(Please no debating or criticism)

It shouldn't have been something you noticed by the change of the OP.
I actually told you that I was going to do that.
You obviously are not reading my posts.

Anyways, please stop spamming my thread with the defense of Sabbatarian beliefs please.