Non-Trinitarian What are the attributes of God?

[Daniel Marsh]

What are the attributes of God?

 

[Job3315]

What are the attributes of God?

Righteous.
Oops, just noticed this is for Non-Trinitarians. Admin, please delete.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Righteous.
Oops, just noticed this is for Non-Trinitarians. Admin, please delete.

That's ok, I expect they would say that too.

 

[Starcomet]

It is hard to give God attributes as we do not fully know what they are. We can only speculate from what can be inferred.

 

[indopanda]

What are the attributes of God?

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it? Numbers 23:19.

Something like this? I supposed you would respond that is only applies to God the Father and not God the Son. Or perhaps to God the Son, but not the human Jesus. Or perhaps this only applied to God the Trinity during the time of the Exodus and it no loner applies to God the Trinity now. In which case I guess God the Trinity does change even though several verses state he does not. Or is it only God the Father who does not change and God the Son is allowed to change? So then does God the Trinity change if God the Father remains the same but God the Son changes?

In summary, God is not a man?

 

[Starcomet]

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it? Numbers 23:19.

Something like this? I supposed you would respond that is only applies to God the Father and not God the Son. Or perhaps to God the Son, but not the human Jesus. Or perhaps this only applied to God the Trinity during the time of the Exodus and it no loner applies to God the Trinity now. In which case I guess God the Trinity does change even though several verses state he does not. Or is it only God the Father who does not change and God the Son is allowed to change? So then does God the Trinity change if God the Father remains the same but God the Son changes?

In summary, God is not a man?

We can certainly conclude that he is not.

 

[indopanda]

We can certainly conclude that he is not.

So then if Jesus is a man, he is not God?

 

[Starcomet]

So then if Jesus is a man, he is not God?

Indeed, he cannot be a man and be God at the same time.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it? Numbers 23:19.

Something like this? I supposed you would respond that is only applies to God the Father and not God the Son. Or perhaps to God the Son, but not the human Jesus. Or perhaps this only applied to God the Trinity during the time of the Exodus and it no loner applies to God the Trinity now. In which case I guess God the Trinity does change even though several verses state he does not. Or is it only God the Father who does not change and God the Son is allowed to change? So then does God the Trinity change if God the Father remains the same but God the Son changes?

In summary, God is not a man?

I understand friend that God's basic nature does not change. Numbers 23:19 I understand that God is not fickle like us carbon life forms. Revelation is progressive.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

It is hard to give God attributes as we do not fully know what they are. We can only speculate from what can be inferred.

The Bible does give enough info to understand some of his attributes.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

So then if Jesus is a man, he is not God?

Jesus is fully God and fully Man Phil 2, Col 1

 

[Starcomet]

Jesus is fully God and fully Man Phil 2, Col 1

That is not logically possible. Jesus was fully human. He was not God in anyway.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

That is not logically possible. Jesus was fully human. He was not God in anyway.

The Church has always taught that he was fully human and fully God.

CHURCH FATHERS: On the Incarnation of the Word (Athanasius)
CHURCH FATHERS: On the Incarnation, Book IV (John Cassian)
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Incarnation
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christology

 

[Starcomet]

The Church has always taught that he was fully human and fully God.

CHURCH FATHERS: On the Incarnation of the Word (Athanasius)
CHURCH FATHERS: On the Incarnation, Book IV (John Cassian)
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Incarnation
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christology

I do not believe that to be true.

 

[LightBearer]

What are the attributes of God?

How about a scriptural answer.

Exodus 34: 6,7 . . . “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth, showing loyal love to thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”

What Is God Like?

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no1-2019-jan-feb/what-is-god-like/

Stay safe and well.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Your bible has a poor translation there. A much better and closer to the Hebrew is:

"And when he passed before him, he said: O the Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, patient and of much compassion, and true, keeping mercy unto thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but by no means clearing the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation."

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I do not believe that to be true.

Somewhere the Bible cleary says the fullness of the godhead was in Jesus.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"Still further, because this was not permitted by natural generation, and because there could be no offspring from our faulty stock without seed, of which the Scripture says, Who can make a clean thing conceived of an unclean seed? Is it not You who is alone Job 14:4? David's Lord was made David's Son, and from the fruit of the promised branch sprang One without fault, the twofold nature joining together into one Person, that by one and the same conception and birth might spring our Lord Jesus Christ, in Whom was present both true Godhead for the performance of mighty works and true Manhood for the endurance of sufferings."
CHURCH FATHERS: Sermon 28 (Leo the Great)

"
II. The two natures are to be found in Christ.
Or because the signs of His Godhead were undoubted, shall the proof of his having a human body be assumed false, and thus the indications of both natures be accepted to prove Him Creator, but not be accepted for the salvation of the creature ? No, for the flesh did not lessen what belongs to His Godhead, nor the Godhead destroy what belongs to His flesh. For He is at once both eternal from His Father and temporal from His mother, inviolable in His strength, passible in our weakness: in the Triune Godhead, of one and the same substance with the Father and the Holy Spirit, but in taking Manhood on Himself, not of one substance but of one and the same person [so that He was at once rich in poverty, almighty in submission, impassible in punishment, immortal in death ]. For the Word was not in any part of It turned either into flesh or into soul, seeing that the absolute and unchangeable nature of the Godhead is ever entire in its Essence, receiving no loss nor increase, and so beatifying the nature that It had assumed that that nature remained for ever glorified in the person of the Glorifier." CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 35 (Leo the Great)

 

[Daniel Marsh]

" But it is also used, in the strict sense, of the Paraclete, as on the day of Pentecost. Now the Divine Spirit dwells in Christians; but this Spirit, whether styled the Spirit of God, or the Spirit of Christ, or the Spirit of Truth, proceeding from the Father and sent by the Son, is only one Spirit. Hence the Godhead is One, and the nature of the Persons within that Godhead one also (§§ 26, 27). He next points out (§ 28) that the Arians are inconsistent in worshipping Christ, and yet styling Him a creature; for thus they fall under the curse of the Law, and forfeit the Holy Spirit. Again (§§ 29-34) the powers and graces bestowed by God are described indiscriminately as gifts of one or another Person in the Godhead. The Son, therefore, as a Giver, must be one with the Father, Who is also a Giver, and one with the Spirit. There is One God and One Lord (§ 35); if we deny that the Son is God, we must also deny that the Father is Lord; which is absurd. They are One God, with one Spirit, but not one Person (§ 36). St. Paul expressly says that Christ is God over all; an expression which must, like all the Apostle's teaching, bear the Catholic sense, and is incompatible with Arianism (§§ 37-39)." CHURCH FATHERS: On the Trinity, Book VIII (Hilary of Poitiers)

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"Book IX. After a summary (§ 1) of the results already obtained, Hilary returns, in § 2, to certain of the Arian proof-texts, and warns his readers that their life depends on the recognition in Christ of true God and true man, for it is this twofold nature which makes Him the Mediator (§ 3). Universal analogy and our consciousness of the capacity to rise to the life in God convince us of these two natures in Him, Who makes this rise possible (§ 4). But heresy lays hold of words spoken by Christ Incarnate, appropriate to His humility as Man, and assigns them to Him in His previous state; thus they make Him deny His true Godhead. But His utterances before the Incarnation, during His life on earth, and after His return to glory, must be carefully distinguished (§§ 5, 6). Hilary now examines the aims and achievements of Christ Incarnate, and shows that His work for men was a Divine work, accomplished by Him for us only because He was throughout both God and Man, the two natures in Him being inseparable (§§ 7-14). After reaching this conclusion from a general survey of Christ's life on earth, he examines in the light of it the Arian arguments from isolated words. They assert that Christ refused to be called Good or Master. He refused neither title, and yet declared that both belong to God only (§§ 15-18). And, indeed, He could not have associated Himself more closely than He did with the Father, while yet He kept His Person distinct (§ 19). The Father Himself bears witness to the Son; and the sin and loss of the Jews is this, that, seeing the Father's works done by Christ, they did not see in Him the Son (§§ 20, 21). The honour and glory of Christ is inseparable from that of God (§§ 22, 23). The Scribe did well to confess the Divine unity, but was still outside the Kingdom because He did not believe in Christ as God (§§ 24-27). Next, the Arian argument from the words, This is life eternal, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent, is refuted by comparison with cognate passages (§§ 28-35). For, indeed, if the Father be the only true God, the Son must also be the only true God (§ 36). That Divine nature which is common to Father and Son is subject to no limitations, and the eternal generation can be illustrated by no analogy of created things (§ 37). Christ took humanity, and, since the Father's nature did not share in this, the unity was so far impaired. But humanity has been raised in Christ to God; and this could only be because His unity in the Divine nature with the Father was perfect. Otherwise the flesh which Christ took could not have entered into the Divine glory (§ 38). There is but one glory of Father and of Son; the Son sought in the Incarnation not glory for the Word but for the flesh (§§ 39, 40). The glory of Father and Son is one; in that unity the Son bestows, as well as receives, glory (§§ 41, 42), and this glory, common to Both, is evidence that the Divine nature also is common to Both (§ 42). Again, the Arians allege the words, The Son can do nothing of Himself, which Hilary shows, by an examination of the context, to be a support of the Catholic cause (§§ 43-46). The Son does the Father's work, not under compulsion as an inferior, but because They are One. His will is free, yet in perfect harmony with that of the Father, because of their unity of nature (§§ 47-50). The Arians also appeal to the text, The Father is greater than I. The Father is, in fact, greater, first as being the Unbegotten, and secondly inasmuch as the Son has condescended to the state of man, yet without forfeiting His Godhead (§ 51). But He is not greater in nature than the Son, Who is His Image; or rather, the Begetter is the greater, while the Son, as the Begotten, is not less than He, for, although begotten, He had no beginning of existence (§§ 52-57). Next, the allegation of ignorance, based on St. Mark xiii. 32, and therefore of difference in nature from God Omniscient is refuted (§§ 58-62), both by express statements of Scripture and by a consideration of the Divine character. It is only in figurative senses that God is stated in the Old Testament sometimes to come to know, sometimes to be ignorant of, particular facts (§§ 63, 64). And so it is with Christ; His ignorance is but a wise and merciful concealment of knowledge (§§ 65-67). Yet the Arians, though they admit that Christ, being superior to man, knows all the secrets of humanity, assert that He cannot penetrate the mysteries of God (§ 68)." CHURCH FATHERS: On the Trinity, Book IX (Hilary of Poitiers)