What are some examples of losing salvation?

[PaulCyp1]

There is no such thing as losing salvation. While on Earth we either accept salvation or reject it. Once we are actually saved, in Heaven, it is eternal. We cannot lose it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Verse 6 is clearly speaking of someone who is not saved. By definition, one who is saved is abiding in Christ. One who is not in him, one who is not in the Vine, is one who has not been saved. Such a person is likened to a branch that is "cast forth and burned" which accords well with other verses that speak of the eternal fate of the lost. This is why Christ does not use the pronoun "you" at all in verse 6.

This is speaking of someone who is attached to the vine. Look at the first statement in verse 6.

“If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭

If a man abide not in Me. In other words if anyone doesn’t remain in Me. How can they remain if they are not in Christ? You cannot remain somewhere you are not currently at. If I’m in Houston I can’t remain in New York. Another indication is verse 2.

John 15:2

2 every branch in me not bearing fruit, He doth take it away, and every one bearing fruit, He doth cleanse by pruning it, that it may bear more fruit;

Every branch IN JESUS The Father doth take away. And I explained the definition of “take away” pertaining to something which is attached is removed. Another indication is the definition of the word “cast”. To be thrown away or discarded without care or regard.

So what we have is a person who is attached to the vine (Jesus) will be removed from the vine (Jesus) by The Father carelessly thrown away without regard to wither (dry up or waste away) and is carelessly thrown into the fire to be burned or consumed.

Another thing to consider is this is what the church has taught since the very beginning of Christianity. Not one of the churches established by the apostles ever taught eternal security. Did all of the churches they established turn to apostasy? Did the apostles fail to do what Jesus hand picked them to do? Was Jesus’ church silenced by evil? Did Jesus’ church remain hidden producing no fruit for 1500 years? Eternal security didn’t come about until the reformation in the 16th century. Now I’m not referring to the Roman Catholic Church. They were kicked out of the Catholic Church in 1054AD. I’m referring to the Orthodox Church established by the apostles themselves. John 15 is a powerful message that refute Calvinism, eternal security, and Luther’s idea of faith alone.

 

[Second Coming]

Do we lose it like we lose a set of car keys?

This is exactly why the idea of losing salvation is preposterous.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Those who are in despair over their sin and seek redemption and forgiveness from their sin lay hold upon Christ by Gods grace. The self righteous believe that salvation must be merited in some way. It is why unbelief rules their spirit by promoting such a Christ denying and God dishonoring doctrine as losing eternal life in Christ. Conjuring up Christ from heaven and thinking he becomes a wafer is witchcraft, not biblical

You refuted nothing. Consuming the wafer saved no man that’s for certain!

No one believes that consuming a wafer saves anyone. What we believe is that man is defied by consuming the literal flesh and blood of Christ through fervent prayer not witchcraft, and that this consumption gives on the power no not fall away from Christ.

Matthew 10:22: "...he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

John 15:6: "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up , thrown into the fire and burned."

1 Corinthians 15-2: "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."

Galatians 6:8-9: "The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time, we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

2 Timothy 2:12: "If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us."

Hebrews 6:4-6: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the son of God afresh and put him to an open shame."

Hebrews 10:26: "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

2 Peter 2:20-21: "For if after they have escaped the pollution's of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered onto them."


No further debate needed

 

[BNR32FAN]

View attachment 246986
The word of God is not only for the audience that was there with Christ. And it is not only for believers today. We need to be informed. I wasn't informed before joining the LDS church. I was caught up in a false religion and often very tired with many responsibilities. There are many people attending churches who have never been born again. We are supposed to be reading our Bibles and learning what God is teaching us. We are supposed to believe what God says:

Deuteronomy 31
16 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Hebrews 13
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

2 Timothy 3
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God uses His word to bring people to Christ. He used it to show me that I needed Christ, not Joseph Smith. All scripture is necessary for our instruction and for warning our neighbors. God warned me and taught me when I started reading my Bible!

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Acts 13
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and
blaspheming. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

We can't teach others without knowing that there is life and death. The word of God instructs us and new members to walk in the light. My neighbors didn't warn me, but the Holy Spirit told me to read my Bible.
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You posted the wrong verse my friend. What you posted is Deuteronomy 31:8 which is what God said to Moses to encourage the Israelites on their attack of Jericho. This has nothing to do with eternal security.

Hebrews 13:5 doesn’t mean we cannot lose salvation it means we can always repent and be saved.

2 Timothy 3:12 amen all scripture is given for our instruction. This is why I’m asking why Jesus is warning His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him otherwise they will be cut off from the vine (Jesus) carelessly throw away to wither (dry up and waste away) then carelessly thrown into the fire to be burned (consumed by fire)? Why would Jesus warn them of doing something that is impossible even explaining the consequences of not abiding if they are incapable of not abiding? If ALL scripture is given for our instruction then we cannot disregard John 15 my friend.

Romans 8:28 Jesus’ faithful 11 apostles who were present in John 15 were undoubtedly called. In fact Jesus specifically says in John 15:16

“Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:16‬ ‭

Yet the same above question still remains unanswered.

Acts 13 your translation is a bit off of the original Greek in verse 48. It says

Acts 13:48

48 And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and many did believe and were appointed to eternal life.

This still doesn’t say anything about eternal security.

 

[BNR32FAN]

We don't want to obey Him until we love Him. When we receive the new birth we know He gave His life for us. If we stumble we have an advocate. And the Holy Spirit convicts us of the stupid things we say and do. We are sad when we realize we've sinned and we receive help:

View attachment 246987 View attachment 246989

Amen but this still doesn’t change John 15:1-8. Why are you avoiding the question? Why does Jesus warn His faithful apostles about doing something that according to you is impossible?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Are you saying verse 6 is pertaining to physical death? If so how can that result in salvation if the person is cut off from the vine as mentioned in verse 2?

Being connected to the vine is to bear fruit in this life. The bible does speak of a sin unto death.
In first cor.11 it speaks of many believers who sleep because they fail to discern properly the Lords supper.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Being connected to the vine is to bear fruit in this life. The bible does speak of a sin unto death.
In first cor.11 it speaks of many believers who sleep because they fail to discern properly the Lords supper.

Are you a universalist?

“Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:10‬

““Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Are you a universalist?

“Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:10‬

““Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬

No... I just understand the reality of God's Covenant salvation.
Do a google search on the Covenant of Redemption.
When you understand that, you will not go to these passages

 

[BNR32FAN]

Still no one who believes in eternal security can answer why in John 15:1-8 Jesus warns His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him if they are incapable of not abiding in Him and the consequences of not abiding results in eternal damnation. A few have tried with inaccurate definitions and incorrect interpretations but when you examine this message in the original Greek context it is undeniable that the faithful 11 were in danger of losing their salvation if they did not abide and repent. Salvation is not automatic simply by the English definition of the word believe. The problem is that the word believe is an inaccurate translation for the Greek word pisteuo which is the verb form of faith or pistis in Greek. Even the word faith doesn’t give a proper definition of the word pistis.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

faith


G4102


Lemma:

πίστις


Transliteration:

pístis


Pronounce:

pis'-tis


Part of Speech:

Noun Feminine


Language:

greek


Description:

1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it a) relating to God

1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ b) relating to Christ

1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on

Pistis aka faith is not only believing and trusting but fidelity, faithfulnessand trustworthiness. Personally I prefer to think of it as devotion. Devotion is not a work itself but devotion does produce works. It does produce a desire to serve and obey.

 

[Oldmantook]

There aren't any examples of such a thing because, a Born Again Believer cannot lose his Salvation.

So if that is the case, then you would have no problem accepting the mark of the beast. Not saying that you would, but you would not lose your salvation if you did - based upon your doctrine.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No... I just understand the reality of God's Covenant salvation.
Do a google search on the Covenant of Redemption.
When you understand that, you will not go to these passages

I would not go to these passages?!! Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that comes from the mouth of God. I will never disregard a single passage of the Bible that contradicts my beliefs. If you have to avoid passages of scriptures to hold to your beliefs then your beliefs are incorrect. How can you say that my friend?

 

[Oldmantook]

Still no one who believes in eternal security can answer why in John 15:1-8 Jesus warns His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him if they are incapable of not abiding in Him and the consequences of not abiding results in eternal damnation. A few have tried with inaccurate definitions and incorrect interpretations but when you examine this message in the original Greek context it is undeniable that the faithful 11 were in danger of losing their salvation if they did not abide and repent. Salvation is not automatic simply by the English definition of the word believe. The problem is that the word believe is an inaccurate translation for the Greek word pisteuo which is the verb form of faith or pistis in Greek. Even the word faith doesn’t give a proper definition of the word pistis.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

faith


G4102


Lemma:

πίστις


Transliteration:

pístis


Pronounce:

pis'-tis


Part of Speech:

Noun Feminine


Language:

greek


Description:

1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it a) relating to God

1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ b) relating to Christ

1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on

Pistis aka faith is not only believing and trusting but fidelity, faithfulnessand trustworthiness. Personally I prefer to think of it as devotion. Devotion is not a work itself but devotion does produce works. It does produce a desire to serve and obey.

Also, the word "believe" in the NT is often times in the Greek written as a present tense verb/participle which is not accurately conveyed in most English translations. The action of belief must be ongoing/continuous as in "believing" and not just a one-time moment of belief as when one first believed and trusted in Jesus. If for whatever reason one ceases to believe, one is no longer saved.

 

[Faith Unites]

It's simple. You cannot lose salvation. It is impossible for a born again believer to become "unborn" again. When Jesus promised to lose none of those the Father gives him in John 6:39-40 he meant it.

But lets say for the sake of argument you COULD lose your salvation. To lose your salvation you would have to abandon the faith until death. But it is impossible for a true born again believer to do this. But IF it were possible for a born again believer to lose their salvation that would be how its done.

This topic has so many variables that it almost makes it impossible to discern. I guess the key question, that is equally hard, is are we saved at first belief or are we saved through persevered faith. Personally I don't think a true follower of Christ can lose salvation, but it is possible for people we perceive to be true followers to fall away. We can't really say that you are saved by persevered faith because you have the example of the thief. However, we also have the example of satan falling away while having full belief. Granted, satan may not of had the HS inside of him, but he had full knowledge of God and still choose to abandon his position in the kingdom. I don't know what the answer is, but who in their right mind would choose to walk away?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I would not go to these passages?!! Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that comes from the mouth of God. I will never disregard a single passage of the Bible that contradicts my beliefs. If you have to avoid passages of scriptures to hold to your beliefs then your beliefs are incorrect. How can you say that my friend?

Who said anything about that?

Are you saying verse 6 is pertaining to physical death? If so how can that result in salvation if the person is cut off from the vine as mentioned in verse 2?

Christian's are cut off physically sometimes.
Get doctrine from doctrinal portions of scriptures.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

Do we lose it like we lose a set of car keys? Does someone just tip their hat to God and decide they don't want eternal life anymore?

I'm not sure how this works.

The person is put under a "strong delusion", which allows for him or her having been shown the truth but also to willfully reject it without even realizing it, by continuing in a self-deception(dead faith) rather than Truth(a living and saving faith leading to loyal obedience in thought, word, and action). Having tasted the heavenly gift of grace and the second birth, they are led back into darkness, to do what is inconvenient, until the person no longer remembers they had been forgiven for their past sins, and they become burdened down with a body of sin they have rebuilt, but to a full measure. There is a point of no return, and anyone that says otherwise is ignoring scripture perhaps to their peril. Ask me how I know, if you want to hear a cautionary tale.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I would not go to these passages?!! Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that comes from the mouth of God. I will never disregard a single passage of the Bible that contradicts my beliefs. If you have to avoid passages of scriptures to hold to your beliefs then your beliefs are incorrect. How can you say that my friend?

Who said anything about ignoring scripture?
When you understand God's covenant salvation the question does not appear.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Who said anything about that?

Christian's are cut off physically sometimes.
Get doctrine from doctrinal portions of scriptures.

I sincerely hope I misunderstood you but you said when I understand that I will not go to these passages. I didn’t know any other way to take it than saying I would avoid these two passages of scripture after reading about the Covenant of Redemption. I hope that’s not what you were saying.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

Some think so. I don't. Our salvation is fundamentally a work of God and as such cannot be undone by human will or action.
God did not wait on us to want salvation before He began to draw us to Himself and He does not require that we want to remain saved to keep us so. Salvation is, as I said, God's work, not ours.
These two verses aren't in contradiction to each other. Essentially, they say the same thing: the old life of sin and darkness is abandoned by the one who is in Christ. The verse from John, in particular, emphasizes that a truly born-again person manifests the reality of their spiritual birth in their obedience to God. A man who is not generally obedient to God reveals in his disobedience that he has not yet been saved, not that he has lost his salvation.
The same thing goes for these verses as for the first two you cited. By their fruit you shall know them. A person who is truly saved will manifest this fact in the character of their living. A person who has not been saved will do the same.
We are saved unto good works, not by good works. Real, saving faith always manifests in corresponding action. That was all James was pointing out. If you really believe the Gospel, it will inevitably show up in how you live.

This is true. Faith is the pudding, obedience is the proof. Thus the proof is in the pudding.
It's not saying by the individual's will alone his is her salvation is being enacted, but by the grace being bestowed upon the person.

So all the "Ifs" are not a matter of personal works or achievements, but a privilege afforded by the matter of His gift of unmerited grace that allows one to be faithful:
-If you remain in Me and my words remain in you - John 15:7
-If you walk in the light, as He is in the Light - 1John1:7
-if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you - Romans 8:9
-if we obey his commands - 1John2:3
-If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself. -2Tim2:11-13

and so on and so forth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Who said anything about ignoring scripture?
When you understand God's covenant salvation the question does not appear.

I once believed in eternal security and defended it passionately until I began to see scriptures like John 15 that don’t add up. When I looked at the other side of the argument I realized the passages that appeared to support eternal security actually can’t be without contradicting other scriptures. The more I studied and compiling a more comprehensive understanding of the Bible the more eternal security didn’t make sense. John 15 is probably the most powerful scripture I’ve seen refuting eternal security, Calvinism, and Luther’s understanding of faith alone. Please understand I was very reluctant to disprove eternal security. It meant I had to recant all the discussions where I defended eternal security and tell people who I debated against that they were right and I was wrong all along. But first and foremost I am a truth seeker and I must proclaim the truth of God’s word. I would much rather humble myself and admit my mistakes than mislead someone from the truth of God’s word.